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Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2011 14:20:41 GMT 12
Phil B , send that off to the record company . They might find one of those 'just discovered & never published' recordings for you .
Well done!!
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Post by Skorp on Feb 7, 2011 14:23:43 GMT 12
im starting to tihnk that maybe we need to have something tabled for the next snz agm to get something done about the inconsistancy of rulings. and not just for major championships and other big meetings, but on a nightly basis
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 14:35:45 GMT 12
im starting to tihnk that maybe we need to have something tabled for the next snz agm to get something done about the inconsistancy of rulings. and not just for major championships and other big meetings, but on a nightly basis So a rule gets brought in that says something like "the referee must be consistent in every decision that they make" great no more problems   Ohh BTW who would decide if the decisions were consistent? and would there be any consistency in those decisions? what would the penalty be? |
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Post by mike004 on Feb 7, 2011 14:39:21 GMT 12
Ok, my 2 cents worth. As they say rules are rules and the Ref made his call. Pretty unlucky for nelson, though in their next race the same thing (disqulified) could have happened. Higgie took out Fraser (who was now on the lead lap) with an illigal move (facing the wrong way) and was later excluded from the race. The other one was Horse getting rolled into the stationary cars (Dale and Scott) that were not in attacking positions, this was deemed not to be deliberate, though replays show it slightly different to the refs call. Perhaps a third umpire call??lol
Was a great race though and Im sure the Tigers will be back with a vengence next year.
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Post by penman on Feb 7, 2011 14:46:54 GMT 12
Ok, my 2 cents worth. As they say rules are rules and the Ref made his call. Pretty unlucky for nelson, though in their next race the same thing (disqulified) could have happened. Higgie took out Fraser (who was now on the lead lap) with an illigal move (facing the wrong way) and was later excluded from the race. The other one was Horse getting rolled into the stationary cars (Dale and Scott) that were not in attacking positions, this was deemed not to be deliberate, though replays show it slightly different to the refs call. Perhaps a third umpire call??lol Was a great race though and Im sure the Tigers will be back with a vengence next year. Oh, come on! I've backtracked on the Nicholls thing......but rolling Horse into stationary cars deliberately? You have GOT to be pulling my chain. |
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Post by penman on Feb 7, 2011 14:48:00 GMT 12
Oh grief...I am going to get the whole top of the South Island jumping down my throat here, but I'm not sure there was a robbing going on here at all. I'm a seriously one-eyed Tiger fan, passionate as they come and I was fuming about Saturday's result getting over-turned because of Brett's relegation. Soem of my original posts may have indicated that...but I went back and voluntarily removed them because I quickly realised I had slightly (only ever SO slightly) overstepped the mark. I think the ruling was made as per the rule book. If drivers were briefed and the situation pointed out, then there's probably good basis from what I have seen to relegate Brett. Penman, I was getting a bit tired of some of your posts so good on you for the above comments. Here's an adapted version of Elvis's song Don't Cry Daddy... DONT CRY TIGER FANS Today I stumbled from my bed With thunder crashing in my head And my pillow still wet From last night's tears And as I think of giving up A voice inside my coffee-cup Kept crying out Ringing in my ears Don't cry Penman Please don't cry Penman, you've still got Higgins and the other Tigers Together they’ll be back again next year Penman, Penman, please laugh again The Tigers will bring you glory again Oh, Penman, please don't cry Why are fans always first To feel the pain and hurt the worst It's cruel but somehow It just don't seem right 'Cause ev'ry time you cry you know It hurts your fellow Macgorians so And we wonder will it be the same next year Don't cry Tiger fans Please don't cry Tiger fans, you've still got Higgins and the other Tigers Together they’ll be back again next year Tiger fans, please laugh again The Tigers will bring you glory again Oh, Tiger fans, please don't cry Oh, Tiger fans, please don't cry Take it away Elvis.... Ha ha......well done Phill. You were getting tired of some of my posts? Oh, that hurts.... ;D |
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Post by my2cents on Feb 7, 2011 14:52:53 GMT 12
As posted in another thread Has anyone read the rules?? No wonder Ramjam gets annoyed... Sigh.. It would also appear that the referee can use discretion when needed. Rule R12-4 (m) Penalties - at the discretion of the referee - Fine: $100 to $1,000 - Individual Exclusion (from the meeting), an exclusion in any one race by a non winning driver is not a penalty. - Team Exclusion It would appear from reading that rule, that the ref in charge is able to give whatever penalty he see fit for the crime. So if the crime was passing 1 or 2 cars while on the grass, a fitting penalty would be a relegation of placing by 1 or 2 cars. I dont think the Referee can use his discretion where the rule (R12-4c) says Fine or Team Exclusion It has to be one or the other. Yes a relegation would be more fitting punishment. |
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Post by The Dark One on Feb 7, 2011 15:00:20 GMT 12
Has anyone read the rules?? No wonder Ramjam gets annoyed... Sigh.. It would also appear that the referee can use discretion when needed. Rule R12-4 (m) Penalties - at the discretion of the referee - Fine: $100 to $1,000 - Individual Exclusion (from the meeting), an exclusion in any one race by a non winning driver is not a penalty. - Team Exclusion It would appear from reading that rule, that the ref in charge is able to give whatever penalty he see fit for the crime. So if the crime was passing 1 or 2 cars while on the grass, a fitting penalty would be a relegation of placing by 1 or 2 cars. I dont think the Referee can use his discretion where the rule (R12-4c) says Fine or Team Exclusion It has to be one or the other. Yes a relegation would be more fitting punishment. It WAS a relegation though. He was relegated to 5th.. So if you agree it was a fitting punishment, what is the problem? |
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Post by chunkey on Feb 7, 2011 15:08:38 GMT 12
The poor officials, I hope they get paid well for all this crap they are copping. Maybe they should look at having 3 officials from 3 different tracks to make such important decisions as to relegations disqualifications etc at championship titles then that would stop the favoritism accusations that are no being posted
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Post by kidnappers on Feb 7, 2011 15:20:39 GMT 12
Have been traveling to Team champs for over twenty years and ceased to amaze me that their is always some controversy with officials. My question, does team racing have different rules to normal superstock races? If not a lot goes on with no interference from the officials at all other meets around New Zealand at local club level, food for thought. Once again great nights racing but like the fireworks it fizzled out to be an non event final which we all anticipated would be.  |
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Post by my2cents on Feb 7, 2011 15:24:43 GMT 12
I dont think the Referee can use his discretion where the rule (R12-4c) says Fine or Team Exclusion It has to be one or the other. Yes a relegation would be more fitting punishment. It WAS a relegation though. He was relegated to 5th.. So if you agree it was a fitting punishment, what is the problem? The problem is the Referee is overstepping his mark. A cop cant give you a fine if you slash tires on boy racer cars or make you sweep paths because you were speeding. The rules are the rules be it right or wrong I must be the only person that see's this as a problem. In my opinion this may be minor now but who knows where it will lead. At another track the ref might decide to fine someone $100 for using pink rims?? |
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Post by The Dark One on Feb 7, 2011 15:39:59 GMT 12
A fine for the infringement wouldnt have been fair on Stratford.
Excluding the whole team wouldnt have been fair on Nelson.
Personally I think the Ref used some common sense and gave a fitting penalty. Obviously Brendan Higgans agreed the call was fair, at least to some degree.
A fine wouldnt have done any good. Just shows other teams that you can cut the grass for advantage, as long as you open the chequebook afterward. Excluding the whole team would have been ridiculous, as for the most part the Tigers raced a good clean race, so why punish all of them? I think your the only one that see's it as a problem because your the only one that is failing to see that the Senior Ref in command of the race made a call he thought was the most fitting.
People are always calling for Refs to use common sense. Well that particular Ref did. Time to move on... As Barry likes to say, the record needs changing...
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Post by Wildcat on Feb 7, 2011 17:05:23 GMT 12
Somthing definantly needs changing  including the record |
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Post by joedirt on Feb 7, 2011 17:10:03 GMT 12
Its the inconsistancy is where the problem is. If you look at the video its a fear call on the 83 car but you can clearly see Ewers pushing Ricky over the pole line as well. At the end of the day its like what the Tiger drivers said "its doesn't matter what you say read it in the paper same result"
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Schaaby
Full Member
"just another old dog"
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Post by Schaaby on Feb 7, 2011 18:24:48 GMT 12
Whether you believe they were robbed or not what an awesome display they put on against Rotorua, just goes to show that these boys do their talking on the track. We can only imagine what the final may have been like if they raced Palmy.
It's easy to see when they go around with the flag that they have a good following and by the way they carried themselves on Saturday night they probably have a few admirers too.
Well done to the drivers, crew and management of the Tigers, you make us proud.
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Post by knowtoomuch on Feb 7, 2011 18:56:18 GMT 12
It seems to me that many of those that have posted about this topic have forgotten several things. First and foremost Teams Racing is a sport and in all sports there will be decisions made by the referees that not everyone will agree with, that doesn't mean that the referees are incompetent or biased it just means (usually) that 'your' team has not come out on top as a result of the decision. The Tigers appear to be a team of adults who accept that the referees call it how they see it in regard to their interpretation of the rules and that their word is final (as it is in nearly every other sport) not a group of complainers crying into their beer that they were robbed. Perhaps it would be a good exercise for some of the rest of us to take a leaf out of their book.
Secondly :It is always sensible to walk a mile in their shoes before you criticise. It is easy to sit in the stands and then in front of your computer the next day and make a leisurely decision but you try making the same judgment call under the time constraints of a championship night with everyone awaiting the outcome and its a different story. Judging by the amount of extremely knowledgeable fans out there who feel that they are capable of doing the referees job much better than they do I would say that Speedway NZ won't have to do any recruitment drives for referees for the next 5 years at least.
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Post by stockmad on Feb 7, 2011 19:08:02 GMT 12
the end of the day the outcome wont change whats done is done ok tigers didnt make it to the final and i wish they did could of been a repeat of lastyears semi . as a true tigers surporter bring on 2012 the tigers will be back and hope higgins goes 1 more he is the man . hope the same team this year come back in 2012 . in the last 3 years the tigers have got 2nd 1st and 3rd im happy with that
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Post by muncho on Feb 7, 2011 21:47:09 GMT 12
It seems to me that many of those that have posted about this topic have forgotten several things. First and foremost Teams Racing is a sport and in all sports there will be decisions made by the referees that not everyone will agree with, that doesn't mean that the referees are incompetent or biased it just means (usually) that 'your' team has not come out on top as a result of the decision. The Tigers appear to be a team of adults who accept that the referees call it how they see it in regard to their interpretation of the rules and that their word is final (as it is in nearly every other sport) not a group of complainers crying into their beer that they were robbed. Perhaps it would be a good exercise for some of the rest of us to take a leaf out of their book. Secondly :It is always sensible to walk a mile in their shoes before you criticise. It is easy to sit in the stands and then in front of your computer the next day and make a leisurely decision but you try making the same judgment call under the time constraints of a championship night with everyone awaiting the outcome and its a different story. Judging by the amount of extremely knowledgeable fans out there who feel that they are capable of doing the referees job much better than they do I would say that Speedway NZ won't have to do any recruitment drives for referees for the next 5 years at least. Well said knowtoomuch,great post. |
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Post by BarryB on Feb 8, 2011 6:23:35 GMT 12
In total there were SIX AFTER RACE relegations and exclusions (I've mentioned this before but now know who each of them are), not to mention the cars that were taken off the track during the racing. I'm not sure what all six were for, but there was certainly more than just the one everybody is talking about.
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Post by penman on Feb 8, 2011 7:18:36 GMT 12
In total there were SIX AFTER RACE relegations and exclusions (I've mentioned this before but now know who each of them are), not to mention the cars that were taken off the track during the racing. I'm not sure what all six were for, but there was certainly more than just the one everybody is talking about. Unfortunately though Barry, not too many in the crowd knew of of any of them. The one that stood out to everyone was in the Tigers/Scrappers race, as that was the one that was really made aware to the crowd (because it had such a huge impact on the championship). I have heard that a couple of the UK relegations were mentioned over the PA, but really hard to hear sometimes - I certainly didn't hear them. As mentioned in another thread, is it possible to use the big screen to make the crowd aware of these actions? |
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