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Post by Admin on Jan 13, 2014 15:47:53 GMT 12
Barry asked:
That communication between the referee and the commentary team - especially at major meetings - is something I would like to see made compulsary. Can SNZ put forward a remit at the next Remit Conference to that effect, for the members to vote on?Hi Barry Why wait until 2015? This is something that every track could have in place by this weekend, if they really wanted to. Ultimately though, anyone can now submit a rule change, as anyone can become a member of Speedway NZ (its $40 per year and you get discounts on Bluebridge ferries and at Steel & Tube). Look forward to receiving your membership application….and remit! You know as well as well as I do that most of them won't. I tip my hat at Palmy for leading the way. I'd me surprised if more than one or two others follow the lead without being pushed however, but would love to be proved wrong. Maybe SNZ could wire their ref's for sound like other sports have been doing in recent years........I know. There's no question in there........ Let's do it on the terracotta, Barry B Perhaps some direct communication to the tracks by SNZ about this aspect may hasten things along. I have tackled a couple of commentators about this directly and their answer has always been either the Ref won't tell us or won't allow us. Same response for unofficial placings. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 15:57:12 GMT 12
Percy asked:
M4-2 Eligibility to host Allocated titles
M4-2-3 Have run the class concerned:-
(i) three times in the season prior to the title.
(ii) three times prior to the title, in the season of the title.
Kihikihi Speedway ran the North Island Midget Title this past weekend. According to their own website Midgets had been raced at a meeting just once prior to the title at Kihikihi Speedway.
What is the position of the board with regards to the definition of the term "run the class"? Does this include practices? If not what punishment can be handed to Kihikihi Speedway for violating this rule? If so what if no Midgets turn up to practice? Baypark has been allocated the 2014/15 North Island Midget Title. Can they race Midgets at a meeting once this season (and claim Midgets could have attended their practices even though none did) to make up their "three times in the season prior to the title"?
To be perfectly honest you have almost answered your own set of questions. The rule says “run” not “race”, and there are many variables involved but at the end of the day if the track makes an attempt to schedule three practices/meetings and weather or lack of cars intervenes it is very unlikely that an allocated title would have the pin pulled on it at the last minute. Imagine if Woodford Glen’s third meeting of the season for Modifieds was on January 2, the day before the NZ’s, and it rained. Then imagine if SNZ said the NZ title couldn't take place the next day? The disruption to competitors who have entered in good faith would be large, not to mention the logistics of organising the rescheduled meeting. Most times common sense prevails, and dispensations from this rule are granted on request. Unfortunately it also says "IN" the season not "before"... or are practices also considered part of a tracks season when they have not yet had an opening meeting? Im thinking up a few decent questions - will ask them when I figure out how to word them. |
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Post by Admin on Jan 13, 2014 16:00:44 GMT 12
anyone can now submit a rule change, as anyone can become a member of Speedway NZ (its $40 per year and you get discounts on Bluebridge ferries and at Steel & Tube). Look forward to receiving your membership application….and remit! Danged if I can see that on the SNZ site , but then my sight aint what it used to be. Perhaps a heads up on how people go about that could be in order. |
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Post by theothermikeyb on Jan 13, 2014 16:02:13 GMT 12
Hi Tim
Track quality seems to be talked about a lot at the moment. Yet I attend a track where, no matter what the main class, the track seems to hold up really well. What guidelines and assistance does SNZ give to tracks about preparation and has there been any thought given to having a set of best practices? Or is the variation due to local dirt conditions the major factor?
As a spectator though I don't see a lot that's broken. I actually officiate in a winter sport so hats off to your guys. It is not easy to make on the spot calls and the growing influence of video, while good for us, must really make it hard for them.
MikeyB
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Post by TonyT on Jan 13, 2014 16:06:50 GMT 12
Following on from theothermikeyb's observation about video, and with the incident at Woodford Glen earlier in the season between Dennis Bolt and Mark Osborne in mind, what role do you believe there should be for video evidence in referee's or steward's rulings (both initially, and after the fact), and if you believe it to be valuable, what will you do to try to implement it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 16:22:12 GMT 12
ok here goes...
1 - Just because Im curious - When new rules come out during the racing season, why is there sometimes no warning period before implementation? {this is mainly regarding the saloon shocks change - it was a change effective immediately despite requests for a warning period by the tech committee}
2 - Why do some tracks get away with regularly providing poor and/or dangerous racing surfaces? will there ever be a set standard racing surface for tracks to reach before they can hold an event that is of a high profile? - especially when there are internationally acclaimed racers visiting said track?
3 - When SNZ officials are at an event - is there a system in place to make sure they are not abusing or cannot undermine the authority the organization is trusting them with? {ie; making very suspicious calls or showing clear favoritism during a title event}
these are just to start with - Im trying to think of more good ones.
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 13, 2014 16:41:27 GMT 12
Barry Brown asked; "How many NZ titles are not currently being filmed to this quality though Karen? And what is the punishment to the promotion if they don't?"
The requirement for TV/DVD coverage was removed by the delegates at the 2012 SPANZ AGM, and is not is Speedway NZ’s championship allocation rules (which are the old SPANZ rules). So no penalties will apply, as they are no longer required to offer this product.
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Post by aresdacat on Jan 13, 2014 16:46:26 GMT 12
Hello Tim
Will there be any action taken over the track for the NZ Superstocks in Napier? The track was dangerous for the viewing public with masses of clay striking the public during racing. It was really fortunate that a member of the public was not seriously hurt or even worse.
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 13, 2014 16:52:49 GMT 12
Barry again:-
Speedway has a totally different structure to not only most (or all) other motorsports governing bodies, but most other sporting governing bodies, in that the members make the rules.
Do you see this as; a/ a strength? b/ a weakness? or c/ a bit of both.
The answer has to be c. If things are that bad, why are we by far and away the most popular motorsport in New Zealand? Our system may seem frustrating at times, but has delivered stability and growth. For all its faults, it must provide us with some benefits.
Is it personally frustrating to you that; a/ half of the members don't seem to understand that? and b/ that more don't actually get involved in the remit processes?
I think the actual number of members who don’t understand the two rulemaking processes would be far more than half, try 90%! Which is one of the reasons for creating this thread. Clearly some education around how things are and why they are the way they are is required, and this will be an ongoing part of my role in the future.
Not wanting to shame anyone in particular, but here’s an example of the lack of understanding. Peter Rees was an attendee at the 2012 AGM, when we held a seminar into Stockcar teams racing rules. He stood up and advised the floor that he had never read the Teams Racing Code of Ethics. And if after 15 seasons of teams racing he hadn’t read the rules, then how are we going to expect a fresh-faced 16 year old teams racer to know and understand them?
Yes it would be great to get more people involved in the remit process, but it comes back to personal responsibility on the part of the members. In my view it’s a competitive advantage if you know and understand the rules, so why wouldn’t you? And will the system change any time soon? Probably not - Bruce Robertson put a motion to the 2009 AGM to investigate alternative rulemaking processes, and it was soundly defeated.
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Post by SpeedwayKing on Jan 13, 2014 17:00:23 GMT 12
Hi Tim
What are the chances of SNZ teaming up with big companies to sponsor and help promote the sport? Thanks
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Post by BarryB on Jan 13, 2014 17:05:13 GMT 12
You know as well as well as I do that most of them won't. I tip my hat at Palmy for leading the way. I'd me surprised if more than one or two others follow the lead without being pushed however, but would love to be proved wrong. Maybe SNZ could wire their ref's for sound like other sports have been doing in recent years........I know. There's no question in there........ Let's do it on the terracotta, Barry B Perhaps some direct communication to the tracks by SNZ about this aspect may hasten things along. I have tackled a couple of commentators about this directly and their answer has always been either the Ref won't tell us or won't allow us. Same response for unofficial placings. I've never had a problem getting information from any SNZ official at any meeting that I've attended in a commentary capacity that I can recall, and that been over a fair few years now obviously. They've all been helpful, some extremely so. And certainly sitting in the stands over the weekend, with changes obviously taking place in every race and not knowing what and why, emphasized to me how important that information was. Malcolm Sines said it was like "a wall" was put up, and that he was as frustrated as us. As for unofficial placings; just give them for goodness sake, and state they're unofficial, direct off the ELS (if it's working of course) and subject to the ref signing it off. What's the worst that can happen? Let's do it on the terracotta, Barry B |
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Post by custaxie50 on Jan 13, 2014 17:10:41 GMT 12
What i would like to see is you and others who work with you,put the sidecars with 1060cc engines back out there can you do that thanks.
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 13, 2014 17:12:25 GMT 12
Zitadel wrote:-
why so many half cocked rule changes?
The process for rulemaking is wide and varied depending on the type of rule, and which class. Some rules have to be locked and loaded 60 days prior to the Annual General Meeting, others can be changed on the day at the whim of the delegates. In other classes the rules can change at any time
all stockcar drivers need to wear the new helmets but if you pay a sum you can use your old one...? whats that about
No driver has paid a sum to use their old helmet. What we do offer is a rule dispensation process, that has a $200 application fee, whether successful or not (see the November 2011 SNZ Update). No competitor utilised this service, and no dispensations have been issued.
stockcars need new cages, but if the one you've got is previously legal..you dont need a new cage...?? so you can continue to use your cage but you cant build a new one in the same way?? whats that about?
Many of Speedway NZ’s rules have what is known as a grandfather clause, where new rules only apply to new cars or from a certain date. It’s the same on the road, if your car was registered before a certain date it doesn’t need rear seatbelts for instance.
why send a stockcar off the track just because his bonnet gets ripped off?
its part of the racing, however it seems SNZ prefer to have thousands of dollars of 'hard earned' sitting on the mid field because of a plastic top that doesnt protect anything...( this is a throw back to very very early days and should really be biffed out, no one arrives at the track without a bonnet any more)
The relevant rule states that if a car becomes unsafe during the race it must be removed. The bonnet rule hasn’t changed for some time, and if there is a desire to change it, then a remit must be submitted by October of this year.
why send a walled car to the infield? we didnt send cars to the infield in the days of rope wire and sand traps, its usually a quick hand to get him off the wall and keep that 10,000 dollar machine doing what it was meant to do, the car can always be relegated to being in last position on the track ( obviously not teams racing)
This issue was discussed at the 2013 AGM, and delegates were given a clear set of choices about this topic, which was never allowed under the rules and needed to be tidied up before an Appeal occurred (or worse). They elected to allow this practice in teams racing only, not in individual racing.
Last question, Does SNZ do any type of "personality testing" before giving a person any sort of responsibility...
It depends on the position. Directors are elected, Stewards and Referees are interviewed, Scrutineers are automatically appointed following a nomination from the track concerned.
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Post by jimmyj on Jan 13, 2014 17:13:31 GMT 12
Thank you Tim for giving us all the chance to make enquiries about different points
I have 3 questions
#1 is,// Why is it that at western springs this year where we have a big noise problem a visiting driver from America was shown the blackboard to retire from the race due to noise (103db)but then was allowed to carry on.Deffinately double standard as several NZ drivers have had to pull off for noise,.Referee's decision to let it go .
#2 is,//Why at a NZ title like what we have just had in Auckland for super saloons the referes will not accept video footage of an incident on track between cars that will later cause major errors in terms of points and overall results for championship place getters
#3 Western Springs again (sorry) Does the head referee have the capacity to stop a race meeting because the track is to rough.If so why don't they ??or is it the clerk of the course or the promoter
Thanks again look forward to your reply
Lyndsay Adams
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Post by mcfly on Jan 13, 2014 17:45:38 GMT 12
Hi Tim Fantastic thread, thanks. Why is it that we are able to complete on line licensing etc, but are unable to move toward individual on line remit voting? Cheers, and good luck keeping up!  |
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Post by fearless on Jan 13, 2014 18:10:36 GMT 12
Thank you Tim for fronting up.
Would never like to see the day when a club would have to meet a strict criteria eg 15000 seating capcity or have to have TV covorage. Smaller clubs need the opportunity to run major chapionships to attract sponsorship,competitors and spectators. Like rugby you need to have the smaller clubs to feed the larger tracks and grow the sport.
However after attending NZ Supers at Meeanee there need should be some guide lines. Maybe a team of SNZ to review a plan before the championship is run advise on concerns. If the ground can hold 7000 people thats fine but the spectors must be safe and comfortable and amemidies available.
On a whole a think Speedway in NZ is on the rught track and openess of the SNZ over the last couple of year is a good thing.
Phill Bailey
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 13, 2014 18:24:11 GMT 12
Parrot asked
1) How did Napier get approved for this title which is supposedly 1 of the top 3 speedway meetings of the year, when it was unable to fit more than 7,000 people safely. You cant be happy with what happened surely. It was a crowd safety issue when someone has to wait 30 minutes for an ambulance to be able to reach them from 400 metres away.
Meeanee successfully applied for and was voted in as the host of the 2014 NZ Superstocks to the 2012 SPANZ AGM. SPANZ were/are a separate organisation at the time, operating under their own set of rules and allocation criteria. SNZ only took responsibility for allocations from next season on.
Issues around crowds and first aid coverage are not Speedway NZ’s responsibility, as local government bylaws apply. However, that’s not to say we aren’t concerned about those kind of issues and would encourage all tracks to meet the necessary requirements.
2) Specific incident regarding walling. Bryce Steiner never stopped and was there for at most 20 seconds before dropping onto all four wheels. 2 other cars were walled for over 2 minutes before the lights went on. Why?
Bryce dropped down off the fence a split second before the red lights were activated, and as the cause of the stoppage was rightly removed. Regarding the other un-named cars, 2 minutes would be around 6 laps of racing?? I’m sure no car was up the wall for that long, so I can’t comment further.
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 13, 2014 18:31:04 GMT 12
Macgor said:-
Perhaps some direct communication to the tracks by SNZ about this aspect may hasten things along. I have tackled a couple of commentators about this directly and their answer has always been either the Ref won't tell us or won't allow us. Same response for unofficial placings.
Feel free to provide specific examples by private message. Officials have been advised that they have an obligation to give answers to commentators, and that unofficial placings can/should be distributed.
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 13, 2014 18:33:23 GMT 12
[/quote]Unfortunately it also says "IN" the season not "before"... or are practices also considered part of a tracks season when they have not yet had an opening meeting?[/i]
The season starts on 1 September each year, as per the relevant rules.
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Post by Pirate Racing NZ on Jan 13, 2014 18:35:24 GMT 12
Two years ago at the 240's a driver had a flat tyre and driving slow during qualifying. No biggie, he then pulled in the infield one lap before the white flag was shown. I wrote DNF. After the race completed, he was awarded eight points for the race when other non finishers did not. This put him into the final as he was close in points. Jump to this years NZ superstocks. One driver was put up the wall and obviously ended up a lap down, it showed on live laps. He was awarded points for where he would have been if he didn't lose the lap. I understand that in classes with high field numbers it can be hard, but why can this happen?
Why can't all tracks connect to live laps. I go to the events and view it as I am there for two reasons, one, you can't hear commentary at most tracks, two since most don't have big screens to show lap data, I can keep a better eye on what's happening for my personal interest. Why can't all track have minimum commentary delivery systems to actually be heard, even fm transmitter or web based so don't have to rewire track.
Why do major meeting dates clash? I am off to NZ saloons this weekend as I am building one and interested, yet I have to miss 240's which I always attend. I went to super saloon champs but had to miss second half of teams. Some of us have family in different classes (my case sprints, superstocks and midgets with me in saloon and freinds in super saloons),or want to go to a variety of classes major titles. When it's about getting bums on seats, I would go to most major titles in the same island if not over the same weekends. My wife and I live for speedway, as mentioned, have nearly finished saloon so will make transition from obsessed fan to obsessed fan and driver. I have offered to help local track for free in the past in any way possible(tradie and retired early) and not taken up. I only work now to pay for speedway and other toys. I am on a coastguard rescue crew, they atleast wanted volunteers. Why is it only people who have been raised in speedway who get listened to?
Thanks for letting me rant.
Steve G. 42r saloon
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