|
Post by beachboy on Mar 22, 2014 19:48:42 GMT 12
I like the idea of quickchange diffs in stockcars...more than i like the idea of going injected. I would be happy to see QC diffs and extractors in stocks..why not, beats spending crazy money on motors in the B grade like some do. The race prepped 9inch diff is more expensive..the one out of the green 54 car was on sale here a few seasons ago asking 4k.. I picked up off the sell pages a saloon car used speedway engineering QC delivered to my place from top of the sth island for 900..thats 700 net..second hand with a steel axle and an alloy axle.. i reckon for 400 to 500 you can get a reasonable toyo diff..well for the couple of hundy difference I'd rather have the QC...i would also rather the motor i have be allowed to breath better to get the best out of it.. without spending thousands on taking it from 3984cc to max allowable size... maybe we need a B grade superstock class or a C grade stocks class but there will always be guys with the skills or the cash to drive the sport ahead.... You have pretty much just explained that you want a superstock also what makes you think that people will stop spending big $$ on there stockcar engines just because they can run a QC diff and extractors?? just remember the max allowable size motors will also breath a lot better with any rule changes made as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 6:34:54 GMT 12
Stockcars out number superstock and hit more so of course they will break more gear. Q,If you had the chance to start the stock car class again would you want to allow QC diffs??? that wasnt really an answer to my question... mine to yours - not sure, probably not but it depends on what rules are changed upon a restart - my main focus would be setting some extreme limits on the engines and suspension rather than the diffs. currently that is where more money is spent. The engines seem to make up more than half the cost of a good car these days.
|
|
|
Post by shane878r on Mar 23, 2014 8:24:39 GMT 12
the bit that cracks me up about this whole post is that it seems to be that toyota hilux diffs are the only diff ever produced in the world? just because someone else is running one doesn't mean everyone else has to. now there are so many diffs out there that you can pick up complete for between $100-200, and some are stronger, and yea I know they are 6 stud, but if you want to keep your car falcon stud pattern all round it isn't going to happen with a quickchange anyway seeings most of them are 5-6 pin knock on hubbed. so why not just try looking and other std diffs? landcruiser, nissan navara, nissan patrol, nissan terreno, ford courier, ford falcon, mitsy l200 / l300 ..... theres always more that one opition avalible
|
|
|
Post by Graeme Mead on Mar 23, 2014 8:28:46 GMT 12
without getting shouted down, what is the class wanting to achieve, yes ever driver wants to be competitive and fast, but every competitor doesn't have the funds or sponsors others do. I am hearing of some who want to start another class and make them standard stocks again, but wasn't that this class some time ago. As everyone strives to be at the pointy end there are more and more ways to get flasher faster and more expensive in a class that is deemed to be the hardest most frequent contact in speedway, I am now in fact struggling to see what is "standard" on these now. Perhaps we call the stock car class B Grade super stocks and start a class called standard stocks, because without a lot of thought and planning that is where we are heading. If we continue to drive the costs up, we will drive the future out of the competitor lists. There will always be those that just want to race and have fun, but before we change a lot of the future can we decide what the future should be.
|
|
|
Post by potentmix on Mar 23, 2014 8:54:14 GMT 12
With stockcars though you can still run with the fastest with a low budget, just depends how good you are.
|
|
gts
New Member
Posts: 27
|
Post by gts on Mar 23, 2014 8:56:36 GMT 12
the bit that cracks me up about this whole post is that it seems to be that toyota hilux diffs are the only diff ever produced in the world? just because someone else is running one doesn't mean everyone else has to. now there are so many diffs out there that you can pick up complete for between $100-200, and some are stronger, and yea I know they are 6 stud, but if you want to keep your car falcon stud pattern all round it isn't going to happen with a quickchange anyway seeings most of them are 5-6 pin knock on hubbed. so why not just try looking and other std diffs? landcruiser, nissan navara, nissan patrol, nissan terreno, ford courier, ford falcon, mitsy l200 / l300 ..... theres always more that one opition avalible I think they should allow stocks to run (raptor) style gear box then you can use any diff ratio from all these makes and modles you want with in reason and set your gear box up to get the right final ratio and with the price of ZFs and HQ and Falcon 3spds getting harder to get it would be a stronger and better and cheaper option in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by beachboy on Mar 23, 2014 9:35:51 GMT 12
Stockcars out number superstock and hit more so of course they will break more gear. Q,If you had the chance to start the stock car class again would you want to allow QC diffs??? that wasnt really an answer to my question... mine to yours - not sure, probably not but it depends on what rules are changed upon a restart - my main focus would be setting some extreme limits on the engines and suspension rather than the diffs. currently that is where more money is spent. The engines seem to make up more than half the cost of a good car these days. The engine $$ will always be a big part of the cost of any race car, but now you want the diff to be a big cost as well. Fortunately I can't see it getting past the remit stage, that’s if someone happens to make the remit in the first place. If you all listen to yourselves Most people on here are saying the class of stockcars is getting out of control and away from the Standard class it was meant to be , so why keep going down that track.
|
|
|
Post by sabbath on Mar 23, 2014 9:53:59 GMT 12
I think they should allow stocks to run (raptor) style gear box then you can use any diff ratio from all these makes and modles you want with in reason and set your gear box up to get the right final ratio and with the price of ZFs and HQ and Falcon 3spds getting harder to get it would be a stronger and better and cheaper option in the long run. OMG now you are just getting way out of control if you wana run a raptor you may aswel go to superstocks if you can afford to run 1 of them
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 9:57:13 GMT 12
I like the idea of quickchange diffs in stockcars...more than i like the idea of going injected. I would be happy to see QC diffs and extractors in stocks..why not, beats spending crazy money on motors in the B grade like some do. The race prepped 9inch diff is more expensive..the one out of the green 54 car was on sale here a few seasons ago asking 4k.. I picked up off the sell pages a saloon car used speedway engineering QC delivered to my place from top of the sth island for 900..thats 700 net..second hand with a steel axle and an alloy axle.. i reckon for 400 to 500 you can get a reasonable toyo diff..well for the couple of hundy difference I'd rather have the QC...i would also rather the motor i have be allowed to breath better to get the best out of it.. without spending thousands on taking it from 3984cc to max allowable size... maybe we need a B grade superstock class or a C grade stocks class but there will always be guys with the skills or the cash to drive the sport ahead.... You have pretty much just explained that you want a superstock also what makes you think that people will stop spending big $$ on there stockcar engines just because they can run a QC diff and extractors?? just remember the max allowable size motors will also breath a lot better with any rule changes made as well. No I havent! Did I say anything about multi cams? NO Did i say anything about having more than 2 valves per cylinder? NO Did i say anything about having open ignition NO Did i say anything about wanting race tyres? NO Did i say anything about wanting to use Raptor G/boxes or such like? NO Maybe you might just not concern yourself with what you think I want and just concentrate on whats on the page in front of you!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 10:13:05 GMT 12
Leave the class as it is , its far enough out of hand as it is....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 10:25:07 GMT 12
Agreed. Don't add more nails to the coffin. The point of the Stockcar class has been lost to the chequebook racers already, no need to give them any more ammo. If you want quickchanges etc go buy a superstock, as is the intent of the class seperations.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 10:31:48 GMT 12
what nails to what coffin Clive..im seeing more stocks being built all the time..its the largest class...coffin? what coffin
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 12:03:11 GMT 12
that wasnt really an answer to my question... mine to yours - not sure, probably not but it depends on what rules are changed upon a restart - my main focus would be setting some extreme limits on the engines and suspension rather than the diffs. currently that is where more money is spent. The engines seem to make up more than half the cost of a good car these days. The engine $$ will always be a big part of the cost of any race car, but now you want the diff to be a big cost as well. Fortunately I can't see it getting past the remit stage, that’s if someone happens to make the remit in the first place. If you all listen to yourselves Most people on here are saying the class of stockcars is getting out of control and away from the Standard class it was meant to be , so why keep going down that track. still havent answered the question... I dont want QC in stockcars really, but an affordable diff that you dont have to modify {shorten} would be a good idea... has anyone seen many of these? So far every diff Ive seen has either had shortened axles on one side or its got something else done to make it fit. - will admit to not looking under every car though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 13:20:30 GMT 12
if a guy wants a quickchange diff so he can run easily at various tracks and have a decent ratio when he gets there why not let him? You get your choice where you spend your money on your car...some guys have thousands 10K to 30k)and more spent on their motors and no one blinks an eyelid....whats the difference...high rise carbies...chassis worth heaps due to being built out of expensive steel and weighing just over legal, thousands in 9 inch diffs... i dont want to go anywhere near that sort of expense... my motor cost 1500 bucks to do..I spent maybe 1500 more on computer and a second hand injection manifold and new holley, my whole car on the trailer only cost 3500..ive put a little in the trailer, im waiting to hear how much ive spent on the chassis so far (not much, I dont want to be embarrassed when the bill appears and not be able to pay it) so i can order more work or take it away from the workshop...it came with a toyo diff in it...and if I was allowed to put my QC in it i reckon my whole kit would still cost less than 7500 to 8k including the trailer...now wheres the arguement against allowing me to use a second hand QC diff? it cant be cost..I got the least expensive set up in the land and that includes new legal rear shocks.. so what im hearing is that some guys have spent so much and lifted the sport so high that folks are scared to let them go any further..I think its sad if you so desperate to win in the B grade your spending the sort of money that blows the field out the door..while at the same time the guy who is playing to the general idea of the class, the original intent..is being penalised...A QC diff wont make your motor any quicker or stronger, its a bit lighter and easier to change ratios thats all....30k 40k 50k stockcars what a joke.. same with extractors..second hand extractors all over the net for sweet frikk all.. cant use em to lift my motor a bit......but I can go and buy all new highest tech internals etc....its a crazy mess...maybe SNZ should go and tap a few of these guys on the shoulder and ask them to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves is the B grade really worth spending all that money in.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 13:36:46 GMT 12
Most just change their tyre sizes if changing tracks ..Why allow quickchanges , this will push the price of cars up even further . Hell they are overpricing themselves enough as it is ...
|
|
|
Post by sabbath on Mar 23, 2014 13:39:42 GMT 12
if a guy wants a quickchange diff so he can run easily at various tracks and have a decent ratio when he gets there why not let him? You get your choice where you spend your money on your car...some guys have thousands 10K to 30k)and more spent on their motors and no one blinks an eyelid....whats the difference...high rise carbies...chassis worth heaps due to being built out of expensive steel and weighing just over legal, thousands in 9 inch diffs... i dont want to go anywhere near that sort of expense... my motor cost 1500 bucks to do..I spent maybe 1500 more on computer and a second hand injection manifold and new holley, my whole car on the trailer only cost 3500..ive put a little in the trailer, im waiting to hear how much ive spent on the chassis so far (not much, I dont want to be embarrassed when the bill appears and not be able to pay it) so i can order more work or take it away from the workshop...it came with a toyo diff in it...and if I was allowed to put my QC in it i reckon my whole kit would still cost less than 7500 to 8k including the trailer...now wheres the arguement against allowing me to use a second hand QC diff? it cant be cost..I got the least expensive set up in the land and that includes new legal rear shocks.. so what im hearing is that some guys have spent so much and lifted the sport so high that folks are scared to let them go any further..I think its sad if you so desperate to win in the B grade your spending the sort of money that blows the field out the door..while at the same time the guy who is playing to the general idea of the class, the original intent..is being penalised...A QC diff wont make your motor any quicker or stronger, its a bit lighter and easier to change ratios thats all....30k 40k 50k stockcars what a joke.. same with extractors..second hand extractors all over the net for sweet frikk all.. cant use em to lift my motor a bit......but I can go and buy all new highest tech internals etc....its a crazy mess...maybe SNZ should go and tap a few of these guys on the shoulder and ask them to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves is the B grade really worth spending all that money in. Yep i fully agree on all of what you are saying there zitadel there has to be some more sort of restrictions put in to play as like i have said earlier on this thread about ministocks how can you compete with guys who are spending $5 - $8k + on a ministock when its suppose to be a feeder class to get the kids involved in the sport but it also happens in all forms of motor racing the guys with the big bucks just make it so hard for the 1s on a limited budget who just want to get out there & have some fun but also try & be as competertive as much as they can
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 13:52:34 GMT 12
G'day Hi revs, I just explained why qc and extractors dont mean more money..it means you got a choice where you spend your money..
Is any one else tired of hearing and seeing stockcars bogging down in bends and being out run by ministocks...theres a few gone far too far..but a lot more I reckon could do with a lift...
|
|
|
Post by cookster on Mar 23, 2014 15:52:51 GMT 12
Maybe the class should be just as it it is"STANDARD" If you run a Holden engine then everything involved with the engine is holden, same for ford etc etc. Standard running gear,shocks,diffs,brakes everything. Yes I know there will still be the big buck boys doing that little bit more somehow but atleast it will make the class a little bit closer and let the big money go into the supers For me if all the standard stocks were around the 10 to 15k max or less mark on cost I would not even be looking at a super, but they are not as we all know.you can pick up a average super for the cost of a average to good standard. In my eyes there should be a huge difference in cost even if it is to separate the 2 classe
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 16:01:14 GMT 12
what nails to what coffin Clive..im seeing more stocks being built all the time..its the largest class...coffin? what coffin The coffin relating to affordability. Yes more stockcars are being built, none have q/c diffs in them though! Put two cars for sale side by side, identical except one has a q/c, the other a standard diff. Which is going to have the higher price attached? That is the point I am making - Stockcars are already expensive enough to build / buy, which has gone against the intent of the class. All adding q/c diffs to the class will do (other than make it easier to change diff gears) is drive the price up in the market. If the q/c diffs are allowed, will be interesting to see how they mount brakes etc without birdcages etc being allowed in the stockcar class - enclose the axles maybe?
|
|
|
Post by nogrip-31gm on Mar 23, 2014 16:23:35 GMT 12
why not just ditch standard stocks and only run supers...cost wise its getting on par these days
|
|