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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 15:07:29 GMT 12
Whilst trying to help a young Ministock driver continue their participation in our sport I have been made aware of a rule which wont allow them to participate in the Youth and Adult class in the same season. So as not to confuse they are about to start their last season (next season) in the Ministock class. A class that they love and have heaps of friends in. A class that has taught them skills and is a class that has ticked many boxes. One of the boxes that it has ticked is the chance to move into an Open Wheel class where car owners are interested in fostering this person moving forward. However there is a rule which will stop this so I am told. This rule forbids a person running a youth class (Ministocks) and an Adult class in the same season....no dispensation.....no discussion.....end of story. Its one or the other!
Now I can understand why if it was say Ministock and Stockcar/Superstock but I cant understand why not Ministock and TQ/Midget/Minisprint/F2/Saloon/Sprintcar etc.
They are allowed to run those Adult class but MUST forfeit their right to run their last year in the Youth class. Lets be honest the last year is when they have a chance to really go for the trophy's etc. as well as spending the final year with mates and families that have been made and meet over 5+ years.
Some may say "well you choose which one" but why should they? Why cant they run their last season in the Ministocks and race in the new classes that they are moving too. I mean all said and done isn't that what the Ministock class is for....to develop drivers and keep them in our sport past the age of 16 !!
I am sorry but this is a stupid rule if they want to move to open wheel type classes as I see absolutely no conflict at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 15:27:36 GMT 12
Just for clarity could you pls quote the rule as it appears in the book of words.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 15:35:53 GMT 12
must be a track rule Bill75 - as in the rule book I cant find where it says you cannot do that.
It does say that to race in an adult grade you have to have an adult licence - with written consent from parents if you are under age. It doesnt say anywhere that you cannot have both a youth licence and an adult one if you are under 17.
probably one of those grey areas that people use to say "if its not written you cant do it".
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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 15:52:37 GMT 12
I have looked and I can't find it. I have been told by the guardian of the Youth that he was informed by SNZ that he could not run them in a Youth and Adult class. I have asked them to ask for the rule from that person as, from where I can see, the rule does not exist.
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Post by boner87 on Feb 25, 2015 16:37:10 GMT 12
Is this "rule" meaning that you can't be a youth and an adult in one nights racing or can't go between them during season? Sounds more like a legal licensing problem as to a racing type rule
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 16:48:58 GMT 12
I'm not saying that the rule book doesn't contain more than a few stupid rules, but when you hear something that just doesn't sound right, particularly if you heard it from someone, who heard it from someone else, it might pay to check it out before decrying this "stupid rule"
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Post by mudman on Feb 25, 2015 16:57:43 GMT 12
would they have the same issue if the youth was to move from a youth ministock into an adult ministock? race as a youth on saturday celebrate birthday on wednesday then race as an adult on the following saturday? i would imagine theres been a few in a place like palmy do this move.
in years gone by we have seen graduates finish off the season in dads stockcar after coming of age.
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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 17:20:00 GMT 12
It wasn't heard from someone that heard from someone. It was direct from SNZ to guardian. You can not race Youth Ministocks and an Adult class ....no dispensation ! Stated the rule has been in effect for 9 years.............I looked and can't find it but we are talking about SNZ here  ? |
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Post by tank11 on Feb 25, 2015 18:08:30 GMT 12
Bill, a number of kids have gone from ministocks to another class once they have reached the age of 17, but they can't race in an adult grade and return to youth grade.
Once they have raced as an adult, they are stuck there.
If I remember right, Asher and Ethan Rees are two that changed mid season.(could be wrong, was a while ago)
Most change at the end of the season, even before their 17th birthday.
Was lucky with my 3, birthdays fell at the end or beginning of the seasons.
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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 18:21:15 GMT 12
Thanks Tank11. That's what I have been told, although still can't find the rule. The point that I'm making is doesn't it seem stupid that they can't run thier Ministock and occasionally run a TQ midget or F2 midget in the same season! I mean where or what is the harm here?
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Post by tank11 on Feb 25, 2015 18:23:11 GMT 12
They can, once they finish with youth.
Or once they have, they are finished in youth.
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Post by bikeboy on Feb 25, 2015 18:27:51 GMT 12
Thanks Tank11. That's what I have been told, although still can't find the rule. The point that I'm making is doesn't it seem stupid that they can't run thier Ministock and occasionally run a TQ midget or F2 midget in the same season! I mean where or what is the harm here? I know this was the case in other motorsports as well, once you raced in the open classes you were prevented from races in the age group classes, basically once you went up you were up for good, there are positives and negatives to this rule, but i don't see how it restricts growth in the sport, I mean once you have raced a TQ or a F2 midget, i don't see what you would learn stepping back to go race kids from 12 years old in a ministock,or a Quarter midget for that matter, |
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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 18:30:22 GMT 12
Tank11... They Can't. They can't do both. This is the whole point of the post. How does restricting them foster the sport? I thought that was part of the SNZ board mandate given to them by the members.
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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 18:42:52 GMT 12
Marketing for a start Bikeboy. Starting to build a portfolio for sponsors before making the big step. I mean look how many now are testing at "black" tracks in Adult class cars. As a sponsor how excited would you be to double your exposure for the cost of just one car? I know I would. Sponsors are building long term relationships now......trust me it's happening. Showing them that you have a clear long term plan and path is what they are interested in. Ministocks is a solid foundation block to this.
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Post by bikeboy on Feb 25, 2015 18:48:26 GMT 12
Marketing for a start Bikeboy. Starting to build a portfolio for sponsors before making the big step. I mean look how many now are testing at "black" tracks in Adult class cars. As a sponsor how excited would you be to double your exposure for the cost of just one car? I know I would. Sponsors are building long term relationships now......trust me it's happening. Showing them that you have a clear long term plan and path is what they are interested in. Ministocks is a solid foundation block to this. practicing on a track, and running at western springs in a full field of TQ's is a hugely different thing, would you be happy for your 12 year old to be racing someone that is racing in a full contact class one week, then back into a ministock the next week? as if you let them have both an adult and youth licence this will be what happens, as the adult class licence covers all classes, |
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Post by bill75 on Feb 25, 2015 18:58:05 GMT 12
TQ, Midgets, minisprints, Sprintcars are not contact classes. Read my first post where I seperate the diffence your eluding too. . And yes yes I would be happy with my 12 year old running with them. No difference to the current situation.
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Post by beachboy on Feb 25, 2015 20:00:23 GMT 12
You should only be able to hold 1 type of licence you shouldn't be able to swap back and forth when you feel like it, as long as the rule is the same for everyone then there should be no issue. Some competitors may not turn 17 until the off season, should they then get dispensation for that?
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Post by tank11 on Feb 25, 2015 20:47:14 GMT 12
I realise what you are saying Bill, but everyone else has been happy (it seems) to be either a youth or an adult.
The racing in adult IS a lot tougher(as in pushy) than youth and the powers that be would be looking at the junior youths to not be pushed around by the verging adult youths.
If you are talking about a kid at the age of 12 doing the TQ etc, well whether they were youth racing or not, I don't think they would get clearance.
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Post by bill75 on Feb 26, 2015 11:52:39 GMT 12
To clarify as people are not reading correctly and getting confused.
Age...16...last year of Ministocks
Allowed to run Adult classes but must vacate Youth Ministcks to do so.
Ministocks.......and Stckcars/Superstocks ie Contact classes I AGREE NO
Ministocks.......and TQ/F2/Midget ie NON Contact classes I DISAGREE
Show me how running a non contact class is bad or detrimental to the sport. In fact show me where it says we cant as I still cant find it. All I see is positives. If the worry is the driver and experience then why not a dispensation from SNZ on a merit bases?
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Post by Stevo on Feb 26, 2015 12:36:16 GMT 12
I hardly see how this "restricts the growth of the sport", it would appear that yours is an isolated case, not a major issue for others. If you are so determined to run ministocks as well as the other class, why not just step up and run in the adult ministock class, not much longer to go and he's out of youth anyway. Some say it is a bit rougher in adult but I've also seen plenty of push and shove in the youth class. And there can also be a bit of nudge nudge in the non-contact classes, so running with the adults in ministocks will probably not do him any harm.
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