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Post by percy on Apr 27, 2015 16:15:03 GMT 12
Current Rule
R12-3-34 Over-aggressive attacking is not permitted in turns 1 and 3.
Proposed Change - Delete this clause
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Post by SKDKNG on Apr 27, 2015 16:33:39 GMT 12
Definatly for run offs.. Haven't seen a decent one this season.. Excluding the welly one
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Post by percy on Apr 27, 2015 16:40:49 GMT 12
Definatly for run offs.. Haven't seen a decent one this season.. Excluding the welly one There is a separate remit proposing exactly that. May start a separate thread at some point to discuss it because it is an interesting one. |
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Post by tony27 on Apr 27, 2015 17:19:42 GMT 12
The biggest problem with the current rule is there isn't a clear line as to what is or isn't over-aggressive attacking, too much is down to the officials at the tracks interpretation & is likely to vary from track to track or even night to night
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Post by brendanlucas on May 8, 2015 21:33:18 GMT 12
I personally believe this to be one of the most sensible (even though I squeeled when I first read it) rules to be put in place, it has done its job & I don't believe the showed has been adversely affected either. There may be varying degrees on what is acceptable, but that can be easily sorted at the drivers meeting I would have thought. I do agree with this rule not applying in runnoffs though, generally there is on one or two cars you need to keep an eye on.
BL
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 9:09:31 GMT 12
I totally disagreed with this rule when I first saw it and still do.
Case in point - the last superstock race I saw was at speedfest - stay on topic now! - the contact was minimal, barely any hits at all. All the glamour has long gone from this class, if you want to see contact outside teams racing - and sometimes even then - or palmerston north with its %50 of all superstock drivers, you need to watch a saloon race!
All this rule does now is add a line of thought to the drivers - "what will the refs think if I hit that guy?" - at that point they will most likely think "its not worth the risk" and just flag race like we see most times they come to Huntly.
I used to love superstocks, all the smash and bash of stock cars but with high hp and high revving v8s etc... sure they are a fast "glamour" class still.. but theyve lost that certain something in my mind - and it stems from the choice of flag race or block? I would love to go out and just cause havoc in a superstock one day just to find out why most have started flag racing.
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Post by Admin on May 9, 2015 11:02:32 GMT 12
I personally believe this to be one of the most sensible (even though I squeeled when I first read it) rules to be put in place, it has done its job & I don't believe the showed has been adversely affected either. There may be varying degrees on what is acceptable, but that can be easily sorted at the drivers meeting I would have thought. I do agree with this rule not applying in runnoffs though, generally there is on one or two cars you need to keep an eye on. BL That theory about run off's is sort of shot to pieces when an attacking driver was injured at Wellington. That incident could also impact on teams racing is safer arguments. If we are not very careful I can see teams racing as we know it being nothing but a memory. Think it through , if we're saying too much aggression is dangerous then too much aggression is dangerous. As an interim measure the rule is ok , different longer term solutions are needed though. I heard Paul Hickey saying at a recent Rotorua meeting that the Superstock track record had stood for 5 years?. How many track records have been broken in the last 2 or 3 ? Sort of belies the claim the class is getting faster if records aren't tumbling. My observation is that the cars seem to have a heap of torque these days , I watched Adam Joblin standing on the gas as he lined up for turn 3 at Huntly , I'm almost sure that beast lifted it's front wheels. I think I'd be wanting to look at the way that torque gets to the track. On the impact side as Kyle Fraser said I think the hi tensile component needs to be scutinised. |
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Post by Admin on May 9, 2015 11:20:56 GMT 12
I totally disagreed with this rule when I first saw it and still do. Case in point - the last superstock race I saw was at speedfest - stay on topic now! - the contact was minimal, barely any hits at all. All the glamour has long gone from this class, if you want to see contact outside teams racing - and sometimes even then - or palmerston north with its %50 of all superstock drivers, you need to watch a saloon race! All this rule does now is add a line of thought to the drivers - "what will the refs think if I hit that guy?" - at that point they will most likely think "its not worth the risk" and just flag race like we see most times they come to Huntly. I used to love superstocks, all the smash and bash of stock cars but with high hp and high revving v8s etc... sure they are a fast "glamour" class still.. but theyve lost that certain something in my mind - and it stems from the choice of flag race or block? I would love to go out and just cause havoc in a superstock one day just to find out why most have started flag racing. I'm not sure the glamour is gone but the watching experience does seem to be reduced. I've heard numerous people groan at the track "since they brought 'that rule' in it's hardly worth watching Superstocks anymore". The theme is recurring over the years though. Superstocks start the season quietly then reach a high with the various SNZ championships, the Teams racing as always the ultimate watchers paradise. After the teams racing the action seems subdued by comparison to the teams racing so the watchers cry tame. Does seem a wee bit worse this year though. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 20:02:58 GMT 12
The price of Superstocks has got that far out of hand these days , most big dollar drivers aren't going to risk wrecking their investment .
As the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ value has gone up , the amount of contact has dropped , so its a guaranteed that outside of teams racing there will not be a lot of heavy hitting seen.
Will possibly be only the guys in the lower valued cars that will be prepared to mix things up..
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Post by craige on May 9, 2015 21:24:51 GMT 12
The price of Superstocks has got that far out of hand these days , most big dollar drivers aren't going to risk wrecking their investment . As the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ value has gone up , the amount of contact has dropped , so its a guaranteed that outside of teams racing there will not be a lot of heavy hitting seen. Will possibly be only the guys in the lower valued cars that will be prepared to mix things up.. no different to say 15 odd years ago Charlie...still had big buck machines back then and guys witth smaller budget considering wage diff back then |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 21:47:36 GMT 12
your right craige I think I would have been about 5 years old when I first heard the old argument about "awwwwww Stockcars (now superstocks) are too expensive now so they don't hit anymore like they did in the old days". Now I know it wasn't too many years ago since I was 5 but jeeze, change the record. I wanna do a bit of a test for Y'all, go back in you memory banks and name all of these actionman stirrers who sed to mix it up all the time from your past. I know different age groups will have different timeframes they recollect but tell me who these guys were and what made them so special. EDIT TO STAY ON TOPIC: The rule hasn't been anywhere near as bad as I first feared |
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Post by brendanlucas on May 10, 2015 5:18:05 GMT 12
This particular rule was introduced as a means of reducing injury, and its done just that it would seem. A by product may be less wear and tear on gear. but really thats irrelevant. there is no rule that says what you must spend on you're car, and anyone entering the arena does so knowing they may end up with a pile of scrap metal by race end.
There is very little skill involved in winding someone off the end, not a lot of brain power required at all. There is nothing stopping you however from giving the guy in front of you a kick at the end of the straight to get under him/her, & nothing stopping a driver from waiting in turns 2 & 4 to dictate outcomes. Old fashioned blocking I think they call it.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 9:41:34 GMT 12
The price of Superstocks has got that far out of hand these days , most big dollar drivers aren't going to risk wrecking their investment . As the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ value has gone up , the amount of contact has dropped , so its a guaranteed that outside of teams racing there will not be a lot of heavy hitting seen. Will possibly be only the guys in the lower valued cars that will be prepared to mix things up.. no different to say 15 odd years ago Charlie...still had big buck machines back then and guys witth smaller budget considering wage diff back then Yep Craige , when we had flat chassis and dreamed of owning a space frame ..lol In saying that , im willing to bet that there is a higher percentage of big dollar cars in both contact classes these days in comparison to 15 odd years ago... Back then maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of the fields were the big dollar cars and the balance were the lower budget cars , today it would be around the other way... |
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Post by Regan O'Brien on May 10, 2015 10:18:03 GMT 12
As a driver it was always talked about at a big meeting on the aggression going into turns 1 and 3 and all the drivers new what not to do and no one ever cried about it. Yes I must say as a stirrer from time to time I did have to re think where I was going to stop someone but it made for better racing blocking someone down the straight than taking that EASY shot of the end.
Some people make it sound like superstocks were smashing each other every meeting and now this rule has come in there has been no hitting come on they didn't hit much anyway. Look at Mac Kwok in Wellington superstock champs went out there and BLOCKED up to get another bay car to win, he didn't need to smash anyone.
As I have put someone in hospital and broke his neck it is not a good feeling hurting people and if we can make that happen less and less by putting in rules that can help prevent it then our sport and drivers will be around longer
Remember keyboard racers its all about FUN and going home to your family.
Thanks Regan
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 11:23:32 GMT 12
As a driver it was always talked about at a big meeting on the aggression going into turns 1 and 3 and all the drivers new what not to do and no one ever cried about it. Yes I must say as a stirrer from time to time I did have to re think where I was going to stop someone but it made for better racing blocking someone down the straight than taking that EASY shot of the end. Some people make it sound like superstocks were smashing each other every meeting and now this rule has come in there has been no hitting come on they didn't hit much anyway. Look at Mac Kwok in Wellington superstock champs went out there and BLOCKED up to get another bay car to win, he didn't need to smash anyone. As I have put someone in hospital and broke his neck it is not a good feeling hurting people and if we can make that happen less and less by putting in rules that can help prevent it then our sport and drivers will be around longer Remember keyboard racers its all about FUN and going home to your family. Thanks Regan Agree with you there Regan , Great to see you admit your experiences with how it effects people . This year was my first in Superstocks , in a car that I rebuilt myself over a two year period . In turn three ,last lap of the nite in only my second meeting I was wound off the end in what most class as a cheap shot . Resulting in a cracked vertebrae in my kneck , two broken ribs and a $3000 bill to fix the car . Along with that out of acrtion for the rest of the season . We all expect to take the knocks in this class , but when its deliberate it is a bitter pill to swallow . What was done about the incident [ well that's another story ] Canning this rule is not going to help anyone .. |
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