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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 22:39:52 GMT 12
Is it any wonder I'm a tad frustrated!  Nobody is prepared to tell me what is wrong with my hubs and rims that warrants a blanket ban after all these years! Marginal cost - yeh right! Can my rims have existing centres removed? What is the cost of new wide five hubs and centres? cardwells $298 for wide five hubs. flame crusher $460 for the same thing - $265 for the DMI version. wheel centres can be removed - bugger of a job, takes alot of grinding once the original centre has been removed/cut out. Gas axe is easiest, not sure its cost effective to do it though. new wheel barrels = cardwells up to $138 flame crusher up to $130 new wheel centers = cardwells $50 flame crusher $70 hope that helps! |
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Post by midway on May 23, 2015 22:56:45 GMT 12
Is it any wonder I'm a tad frustrated! Nobody is prepared to tell me what is wrong with my hubs and rims that warrants a blanket ban after all these years! Marginal cost - yeh right! Can my rims have existing centres removed? What is the cost of new wide five hubs and centres? As long as your rims are structurally sound removing the centres and replacing them to the right compliance if needed can be done . Youve been one of the lucky ones although been a budget racer able to afford to race ,there is alot that have cars parked up that simply cant . There is a cost in almost anything in todays world ,just be happy if you can afford it .. |
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Post by japsuper on May 24, 2015 10:59:23 GMT 12
Last time I priced at Carlos The Steel Surgeon in manukau it was 80 dollars to change the centre for a legal profile cut one. Either wide 5 bolt on or sprintcars splined centre pattern.
The big cost is buying the hubs or splined centres.
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Post by japsuper on May 24, 2015 11:01:18 GMT 12
Rhodesta, the centres are easily and quickly cut out with a suitable size lathe. Not much point in mucking around with gas axe and grinders.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 13:05:08 GMT 12
Rhodesta, the centres are easily and quickly cut out with a suitable size lathe. Not much point in mucking around with gas axe and grinders. wouldnt know - never used a metal lathe before - dont have the room for one at home and never tried on anywhere else. |
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Post by SKDKNG on May 24, 2015 20:14:22 GMT 12
Rhodesta, the centres are easily and quickly cut out with a suitable size lathe. Not much point in mucking around with gas axe and grinders. Yeah made some tooling up, can mount, spin them up and part in minutes now.. Any general engineering shop can do this.. Next mish is to make a attachment to mount the welder onto the lathe so can lazily weld the centres back in. |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on May 26, 2015 18:51:50 GMT 12
Still no reasons provided as to why my perfectly safe and functional rims are likely to be biffed?
Going to be debated at a 'special general meeting' by who, god only knows, and with what credentials?
Worse than the TPPA agreement!
Anyone else aware of changes for changes sake, no rational provided?
Today I'm told someone somewhere is insisting on neck braces having a 'use by date', forcing more unwarranted expense.
And folk still insist that competitors control their sport, make the rules!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 20:04:28 GMT 12
Still no reasons provided as to why my perfectly safe and functional rims are likely to be biffed?
Going to be debated at a 'special general meeting' by who, god only knows, and with what credentials?
Worse than the TPPA agreement!
Anyone else aware of changes for changes sake, no rational provided?
Today I'm told someone somewhere is insisting on neck braces having a 'use by date', forcing more unwarranted expense.
And folk still insist that competitors control their sport, make the rules!
well according to SNZ - its mainly because Intero, the maker of the 6 pin centres, decided not to pay for the recertification of its 6pin centres that have rarely failed on saloons & super saloons or modifieds in the last ten or fifteen years. This is of course while forgetting that Elite wheels still DO make an SNZ certified six pin wheel center and have done for just as long. Annoyingly - we are being targeted because of a superstock problem. that is honest to God, my own interpretation of how this is going. It is PISSING me off big time too I also look at the new rules and think - why did they bother? they are still over complicated and difficult to read! I could and DID do better earlier in this thread! |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on May 26, 2015 20:41:56 GMT 12
Thanks Rhodesta: "Well according to SNZ - its mainly because Intero, the maker of the 6 pin centres, decided not to pay for the recertification of its 6pin centres that have rarely failed on saloons & super saloons or modifieds in the last ten or fifteen years.
This is of course while forgetting that Elite wheels still DO make an SNZ certified six pin wheel centre and have done for just as long."
Provided the design of the Intero rims have not changed there should be NO recertification costs, other than at best, the provision of declaration confirming no change. Weird.
Okay, putting that (new rims) now to one side, the 6 pin rims I have, have all been inspected and certified as in a safe condition and it makes absolutely no sense to bin them and my expensive hubs when they are perfectly sound.
I had naively assumed that SNZ had some actual evidence that had escaped me over many years, that they represented a serious and immediate risk.
The biggest concern is that this identifies a mindset at SNZ that falls way short of that which is conducive to good outcomes for our competitors and sport.
What the hell ....
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Post by beachboy on May 26, 2015 21:22:42 GMT 12
if they are certified as you say then you wouldn't have to bin them? would you?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 21:46:27 GMT 12
Thanks Rhodesta: "Well according to SNZ - its mainly because Intero, the maker of the 6 pin centres, decided not to pay for the recertification of its 6pin centres that have rarely failed on saloons & super saloons or modifieds in the last ten or fifteen years.
This is of course while forgetting that Elite wheels still DO make an SNZ certified six pin wheel centre and have done for just as long."
Provided the design of the Intero rims have not changed there should be NO recertification costs, other than at best, the provision of declaration confirming no change. Weird.
Okay, putting that (new rims) now to one side, the 6 pin rims I have, have all been inspected and certified as in a safe condition and it makes absolutely no sense to bin them and my expensive hubs when they are perfectly sound.
I had naively assumed that SNZ had some actual evidence that had escaped me over many years, that they represented a serious and immediate risk.
The biggest concern is that this identifies a mindset at SNZ that falls way short of that which is conducive to good outcomes for our competitors and sport.
What the hell ....
Short answer - its because superstocks have been ripping the centres out of six pin rims during racing. so they are blaming us instead of fixing the problem Just so we are clear though - I dont why Im saying SNZ are blaming our saloons and mods {although they are}, my cars a ctra car and not six pin anyway!! |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on May 26, 2015 22:21:12 GMT 12
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .... Short answer - its because superstocks have been ripping the centres out of six pin rims during racing.
So they are blaming us instead of fixing the problem
Too hard to require a super stock to apply extra thickening given they are a totally different animal?
Oh well, me thinks it's not going to be my problem anyway!
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Post by stockman32 on May 27, 2015 8:35:30 GMT 12
Don't jump on me for this. I'm only a 'Pom' and I have no knowledge of your rules set-up over there, but would it be possible for the drivers, as a group, to club together and get the hubs/wheels recertified on your own behalf? Or is that not a possibility due to some other 'rule'?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 16:24:55 GMT 12
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .... Short answer - its because superstocks have been ripping the centres out of six pin rims during racing.
So they are blaming us instead of fixing the problem
Too hard to require a super stock to apply extra thickening given they are a totally different animal? Oh well, me thinks it's not going to be my problem anyway! actually our "safety first" governing body decided that the hubs themselves should be modified by drivers instead of insisting on the thicker and safer wheel centres that the hubs were designed for! Heres the link to prove it! |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jun 16, 2015 21:25:12 GMT 12
Help me out here folks ....
I've just had a message that 6 pins are no longer legal, end of story, no grace period.
I'm told no discussion, no evidence, didn't give a darn, gone burger.
Before I seriously totally express my self, my feelings and thoughts in regards SNZ
could someone confirm or deny - pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!
Thanks (I think), Rhodesta for the link.
So, early last year this brilliant SNZ collective have an issue identified, investigated and resolved,
an issue specifically with 6-pin hubs and super stocks.
A little over twelve months later the same issue reappears, an issue that isn't one,
now also for the saloon class - and SNZ want me to toss perfectly good rims and hubs away,
and spend up to $4000 for NO good reason but to stroke their over inflated egos?
Plus they put up my fees ......
Have a read this correctly? What have I missed?
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Post by TimSOZ on Jun 17, 2015 9:24:13 GMT 12
Rather than risking your licence with numerous cheap shots, perhaps Murray you should be asking this question...Why have the wheel sub-committee, the Board of Speedway NZ and 41 of the 45 delegates at the AGM (including two members of the Saloon Technical Committee, one of whom is your competitor representative and delegates from at least 22 tracks) all seen that its necessary to make this change? Surely as all of them are volunteers with many lifetimes of experience in the sport its not to inflate their own ego's? Surely they have made what they see to be the best decision for both the class and the sport? Or am I missing something?
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jun 17, 2015 9:48:23 GMT 12
Rather than risking your licence with numerous cheap shots, perhaps Murray you should be asking this question...Why have the wheel sub-committee, the Board of Speedway NZ and 41 of the 45 delegates at the AGM (including two members of the Saloon Technical Committee, one of whom is your competitor representative and delegates from at least 22 tracks) all seen that its necessary to make this change? Surely as all of them are volunteers with many lifetimes of experience in the sport its not to inflate their own ego's? Surely they have made what they see to be the best decision for both the class and the sport? Or am I missing something?
Better still Tim, perhaps you should be responding to my repeated question, 'WHY', rather than risking competitors choosing not to renew their licence.
I am not the person choosing not to communicate effectively and this matter is by no means a 'cheap shot' at $4000.
Agreed, it is not all choosing to inflate their egos, with the vast majority, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary,
choosing not to apply common sense and their own investigative skills. By majority we are a nation of sheep.
Yes you are missing something as the reality of life is, folk will not risk putting their heads up, folk will generally be lead rather than lead.
Folk see comments, thinly veiled threats, abuse and put self preservation before best outcomes - That's life.
After 15 years extensive involvement in 'things governance' and in my 60's I am well aware of how processes work, how outcomes are often achieved.
Like yourself, at this stage, I'm missing something, a rational reason why I must incur a loss of $2/3/4000.
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Post by BarryB on Jun 17, 2015 9:51:05 GMT 12
I'm told no discussion, no evidence, didn't give a darn, gone burger. I'm definitely no technical type Murray, so I can't comment on the decision made other than to say; there was a discussion (a lengthy one), there was evidence (mostly beyond my comprehension however, but that didn't really matter as I don't get a vote!!), people DID give a darn, and the vote was overwhelming. Barry B |
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Post by HadleyMotorsport on Jun 17, 2015 10:55:40 GMT 12
As just mentioned there was plenty of talk about this at the AGM. There were experts there as well from within the delegates. It's time to move on. This is motorsport, things change, costs change, safety changes. If you're not happy, go through the process of trying to fix the issue you have the right way (Good luck, because the right way was clearly agreed in majority already.). If you aren't prepared to do that, move on from the sport. As for the lack of information, if your delegates can't supply you the information you're after on the discussion that happened, that's not SNZ or any other tracks problem. If you simply aren't impressed or disagree with their information given, once again that's no one else's fault.
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jun 17, 2015 11:19:24 GMT 12
As for the lack of information, if your delegates can't supply you the information you're after on the discussion that happened, that's not SNZ or any other tracks problem. If you simply aren't impressed or disagree with their information given, once again that's no one else's fault.
Of course it's someone's fault, I've had NO reason provided and the buck stops with SNZ. The reason I choose a forum for competitors is that I'm not as easily intimidated as most are and I share the concerns of many. I've had a number of competitors privately message me with concerns similar and the same, messages clearly from unbiased experts in various fields who choose not to put their head up. If individuals with a concern, a thought, a question (shared by many) just chose to keep quiet and deal with their local rep, there would be an escalation of this type of decision making. SNZ have an obligation to ensure that it's decisions are BEST outcome based, and that affected parties are fully briefed as to the rational for the same. I've just been messaged and told my two year old expensive and effective belts are no longer legal, to go buy some budget type and put myself at risk? |
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