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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 8:54:23 GMT 12
The other thread about the Rees NZDTR story has become yet another Palmy cheat at teams champs time... yes they do..... no they don't.... yes they do, and I have proof..... No you don't you're just joining dots...... Rarrrr Rarrrrr Rarrrrrdy Ra.
Personally I'm more than skeptical and don't believe it for a min, but if the conspiracy brigade want to convince me here is your chance.
What I wanna know is what do Palmy (the promotion who are according to all reports behind it) get out of moving heaven & earth to make sure the Panthers win.
They wouldn't sell a single ticket more or less. They wouldn't pay a single dollar more or less in prize money (unless you know different?). So what do Y'all think they get out of it?
Take any emotion out of it and remember we are talking about the NZ Superstock Teams @ Palmy and the decisions that get made at that meeting only.
Convince me it happens.... GO
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Post by BarryB on Jun 2, 2015 9:02:05 GMT 12
I'd go as far as suggesting they might even sell more tickets if the Panthers won less often? If more teams were realistic chances upon entering the event, it might encourage even more travelling spectators to make the expensive journey in the hope of seeing their side victorious.
Barry B
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 9:13:14 GMT 12
As I was writing that post I actually thought of that and a couple of other reasons why life would prob be easier for them when the Panthers do lose. Finding reasons to ensure the Panthers do win should be fairly easy for those who are sure it happens tho. Maybe it's as I suspect, easier just to shoot off with no facts to back anything up, kind of Winston Peters like
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 9:20:58 GMT 12
It is the Panthers Team that do the winning , Why /////
They are a well oiled setup of top drivers who race week in week out with some some stiff competition .
As proven at Waikaraka Park , they are no unbeatable but at home they take some stopping .
I doubt very much that their success at home is through outside contribution.
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Post by brendanlucas on Jun 2, 2015 9:40:19 GMT 12
I’ll bet my neighbors cats left testicle on the fact the conspiracy theory will actually come to nothing, there’s no more gamesmanship (IMO) within the Panther lot, than there is within some of the other teams.
Personalities, well that’s a whole other matter. If the game is Tennis & you must wear Puma’s (as per the rules) & you insist on playing in Red Bands, then eventually they won’t play tennis with you, unless you have a bloody good serve. A classic case of ego’s bumping into each other…. You’ll get this personality thing going on whether it’s a cat show, F!, FIFA, Saturday morning rugby, speedway apparently, just about wherever you can find anything that has bragging rights for the victor.
Anyway, I have little time for this, I need to practice my technique for the upcoming gumboot throwing contest, now held at Himatangi.
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Post by BarryB on Jun 2, 2015 10:11:55 GMT 12
Possibly if you're stuck in the past Rammers, like decades ago, you may find situations of dodgy draws and dodgy (pre-ELS) lap scoring.
When it was a 10 team competition with 5 teams races on night 1 and the lowest scoring winner went home (only 4 transferred through to Night 2) it was amazing how often the Rotorua Rebels and the Wellington Wildcats (two top teams of the era) met on Night 1. They'd turn on the race of the night but take points off each other (it'd be like 75-70) and both would become Round 1 victims.
Nowadays the ELS has fixed up the lap scoring and the draw is legit every year, so the conspiracy theorists have to blame the likes of the referees to compensate for the fact no team has been good enough to beat the Panthers regularly in an AGE. As depressing as that is, when you place 5 of the best drivers in the country in 5 of the best cars in the country together on their home track, they're ALWAYS going to be difficult to beat.
Barry B
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Post by midway on Jun 2, 2015 13:02:00 GMT 12
Anyway, I have little time for this, I need to practice my technique for the upcoming gumboot throwing contest, now held at Himatangi. Please insure that these gumboots are free of contamination,(foot & mouth disease) which is spreading throughout Palmerston North,and seems to be heading southwards .M A F will be present at Himatangi . |
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2015 13:04:45 GMT 12
If I was the promoter I figured I would want to work the draw/seeding to give my top local team the best chance to make the finals.
Even though a large part of the crowd are travellers from around the country the local support is still huge and the last thing I would want is to have them sitting at home in a state of depression on night two because there was no top local team still in the running.
Having as many teams as is reasonable still in with a chance on night two is good for crowd numbers too.
Observed in Auckland one year at teams Nationals when they first ran a format that ended with only two teams still in with a chance after night one. Night one there was a large crowd from the Waikato in attendance but their team was knocked out thus the supporters weren't in attendance on night two. That's $$$ at the gate lost.
And Barry is right , in the old days lap scoring seemed dubious , the draw dubious and then there was all that protesting drama that went on.
If I'm worried about anything these days it's that it almost seems protesting is creeping back in under the guise of appeals. I believe that's an area that needs addressing in order to retain the confidence of the customers. I'm a bit old school in my thinking that if the Ref or his assistants didn't see it then them's the breaks. If the Ref chooses to view video footage for clarification at his own instigation then that's ok too.
The more there is interaction between teams and officialdom on the night then the more we will have claims of bias etc.
The Palmy teams are a hugely successful promotion and because it's such a major event attended by so many teams and supporters there will always be dissension and claims of cheating etc. It's all part of the deal but it doesn't mean the claims are correct. There will be mistakes though and until androids take over from humans in the running of the meetings that's the way it is.
Now who is going to be first to replace the referee with an app? and will us lot be able to have one too?
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Post by midway on Jun 2, 2015 13:40:12 GMT 12
The flip side to all this ,must have a bearing affect on the Promotion ,with Puk, And Bruce ,and in my small way you couldnt find two better blokes that bend over backwards to help competitors from overseas,and in this country to race .Without these type of blokes in the sport it would be little entertaining ,.Most of us enjoy Teams racing and when the Busters came to town and took the teams event trophy home i doubt very much about a conspiracy in the eyes of anyone ..
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Post by brendanlucas on Jun 2, 2015 14:44:05 GMT 12
Anyway, I have little time for this, I need to practice my technique for the upcoming gumboot throwing contest, now held at Himatangi. Please insure that these gumboots are free of contamination,(foot & mouth disease) which is spreading throughout Palmerston North,and seems to be heading southwards .M A F will be present at Himatangi . Too late to ban ‘Foot ‘n’mouth’ from this competition, many of the competitors already suffer from this affliction, myself included. I find the best cure for this affliction is to raise you’re right cheek, then raise you’re left cheek, then exhail very rapidly & continuously – in the olden days before dishwashers, George Forman Grills, & the internet, they used to call this practice (as described) laughter. Up north there has been little reason for this practice, so the practice may have become a forgotten art. The one thing they will be looking at banning, is the use of carbon fibre gumbbots, simply too expensive & we aren’t getting the young guys coming through. The cheaper ‘crate’ gumboots leave it to the skill of the competitor, and much easier to determine the most skillful.  |
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Post by BarryB on Jun 2, 2015 15:31:02 GMT 12
I find the best cure for this affliction is to raise you’re right cheek, then raise you’re left cheek, then exhail very rapidly & continuously – in the olden days before dishwashers, George Forman Grills, & the internet, they used to call this practice (as described) laughter. Are you sure it's laughter? I guess it all depends on which cheeks it is you are raising, and what it is you're exhaling rapidly after said cheek action  Barry B |
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Post by beachboy on Jun 2, 2015 17:11:58 GMT 12
Good point, they wouldn't get much out of it which beggars the question as to why they do it time and time again  . Although having a winning team would mean the promotion would get more bums on seats at other meetings by promoting they have the best Superstock team in NZ racing at their track. You have to remember it's not just the keyboard racers that think palmy officials are suspect, our current 1NZ Champions in Super stocks and Stockcars have up and left because they feel Officiating at Palmy is one-sided. |
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Post by Wildcat on Jun 2, 2015 19:02:41 GMT 12
Say No More .  |
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Post by busterbell on Jun 2, 2015 20:50:12 GMT 12
Take any emotion out of it and remember we are talking about the NZ Superstock Teams @ Palmy and the decisions that get made at that meeting only. Convince me it happens.... GO this sentance alone should be evidence enough. don't we only ever talk about this meeting only.....  |
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2015 22:11:37 GMT 12
Take any emotion out of it and remember we are talking about the NZ Superstock Teams @ Palmy and the decisions that get made at that meeting only. Convince me it happens.... GO this sentance alone should be evidence enough. don't we only ever talk about this meeting only..... We're waiting buster , you are one of the worst offenders when it comes to casting aspersions on the Palmy officials. Time to put up your proof or apologise to them for your groundless accusations. |
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Post by gazman on Jun 2, 2015 22:49:50 GMT 12
I guess one factor that might be relevant to this post is what percentage of spectators are locals compared to out of towners. Would a 50/50 split be about right ...??
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Post by busterbell on Jun 2, 2015 23:13:34 GMT 12
your trap would be a fruitless attempt to appease without documented proof of which i will not bother with. there are plenty of pages within this forum to which numerous occasions over the years have been discussed and debated. i stand by my opinions unless someone convinces me otherwise. thankfully not all tracks have the same issues that palmy have gained a reputation for. i could equally ask for my "groundless accusations" to be proved or otherwise apoligised for but this is a game i wish not to take part in. i am all for debate and discussion.
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Post by Admin on Jun 3, 2015 6:18:51 GMT 12
your trap would be a fruitless attempt to appease without documented proof of which i will not bother with. there are plenty of pages within this forum to which numerous occasions over the years have been discussed and debated. i stand by my opinions unless someone convinces me otherwise. thankfully not all tracks have the same issues that palmy have gained a reputation for. i could equally ask for my "groundless accusations" to be proved or otherwise apoligised for but this is a game i wish not to take part in. i am all for debate and discussion. So it's all just hearsay and sour grapes then. Thought as much. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 8:55:05 GMT 12
your trap would be a fruitless attempt to appease without documented proof of which i will not bother with. there are plenty of pages within this forum to which numerous occasions over the years have been discussed and debated. i stand by my opinions unless someone convinces me otherwise. thankfully not all tracks have the same issues that palmy have gained a reputation for. i could equally ask for my "groundless accusations" to be proved or otherwise apoligised for but this is a game i wish not to take part in. i am all for debate and discussion. So it's all just hearsay and sour grapes then. Thought as much. That just about sums it all up Gordon .. lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 11:37:06 GMT 12
your trap would be a fruitless attempt to appease without documented proof of which i will not bother with. there are plenty of pages within this forum to which numerous occasions over the years have been discussed and debated. i stand by my opinions unless someone convinces me otherwise. thankfully not all tracks have the same issues that palmy have gained a reputation for. i could equally ask for my "groundless accusations" to be proved or otherwise apoligised for but this is a game i wish not to take part in. i am all for debate and discussion. So it's all just hearsay and sour grapes then. Thought as much. EXACTLY!! This was a good chance to put up or shut up. There's one who doesn't wish to put up, so will take the second choice I guess. In saying that I'm not trying to shut down debate or anything but perception becomes reality and I'm 100% sure the likes of Buster and others truly do believe what they say and ain't just doing it to get a rise, but when challenged as to why they know they are right the answer will be along the lines of "Cause I've always known it" or "Well its obvious" and no amount of reasoning will convince them otherwise. I saw someone in the Carpark after Teams Champ's in Feb. I've known him for most of my life and is a good bloke in every way but chewed my ear off about how the panthers only won by cheating. I'll bet good $ $ $ that he went to the race meet knowing that if the panthers won, they would have cheated. Because of that attitude I'm worried that they miss a great event and miss appreciating a great team right in front of them. Ya don't have to like 'em but see them for what they are, not what You think they are. Rant over. |
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. Although having a winning team would mean the promotion would get more bums on seats at other meetings by promoting they have the best Superstock team in NZ racing at their track. You have to remember it's not just the keyboard racers that think palmy officials are suspect, our current 1NZ Champions in Super stocks and Stockcars have up and left because they feel Officiating at Palmy is one-sided. 
