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Post by Roger Ex 35A on Jun 28, 2015 17:45:52 GMT 12
there used to be a guy that drove against the traffic if the racing wasnt exciting enough in the previous race, sometimes i wish he was still around!. Game by name game by nature  |
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Post by boner87 on Jun 28, 2015 19:32:59 GMT 12
It almost seems that the problem lies in where the aren't any SNZ national champ, GP, etc. This "rule" doesn't seem to be out of line because no where it says they will suspend or will race in both directions. I've never been involved in the ministock class but I thought it was a class were youngsters can learn or average Joe can race without contact and damage for cheap. I have heard of some of the problems within the youth ministocks and really these rules are here to say "cheating" will not be tolerated and if it continues to happen we will make it harder for these competitors to be competitive. Even if they are going they other way racing skills will still be taught
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Post by beachboy on Jun 28, 2015 20:12:57 GMT 12
I thought part of the package with youth Ministocks aside from learning how to race was also learning how to set up a race car. Me thinks it's best to enforce the rules properly rather that take an important aspect away. I would have thought having them run both ways would have required more thinking and tuning with regards to set up? The only ones disadvantaged would be the ones who have off set there chassis weight wise when building. |
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Post by chris13w on Jun 28, 2015 22:11:18 GMT 12
I would just like to say that the wording in the update was also very poorly done, I know kids schooling isn't up to much these days, but I had Youth Ministockers telling me they were definitely racing both ways next season... (Bring back proper School Certificates I say). Also, how will an illegally offset car get on the track if they have been greensheeted properly with a simple piece of equipment called a "tape measure" at the beginning of the season??  |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jun 28, 2015 22:43:04 GMT 12
Read the HRC post.
Many have full containment seats that prohibit spontaneous clock wise racing from a safety perspective.
Does the Board not know this or, again, doesn't care?
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Post by tank11 on Jun 29, 2015 8:31:04 GMT 12
I think the "off set" is mostly additions (fuel tank, battery box, etc) and maximum engine/gearbox allowed.
They hang everything to the left, it's allowed.
A bit different if the motor is more than 25mm offset though, then shouldn't have been green sheeted.
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Post by bikeboy on Jun 29, 2015 14:29:49 GMT 12
when i got my cars green sheeted when racing, it was more a safety equipment check, than a measurement check to see if it was legal, and i remember at the NZ saloons at huntly a few cars where outside measurements from their log book, which required some mods to get though scrutinering ,
most of the time these measurements are only taken at the championship meetings,
are the clubs going to take the extra time to check every measurement, , the amount of knowledge needed to do every class would be pretty large, but it is all in the rule book for them to learn, and the tried and true "its always been like that and i have been able to race" call will be made no doubt,
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Post by chris13w on Jun 29, 2015 15:44:30 GMT 12
when i got my cars green sheeted when racing, it was more a safety equipment check, than a measurement check to see if it was legal, and i remember at the NZ saloons at huntly a few cars where outside measurements from their log book, which required some mods to get though scrutinering , most of the time these measurements are only taken at the championship meetings, are the clubs going to take the extra time to check every measurement, , the amount of knowledge needed to do every class would be pretty large, but it is all in the rule book for them to learn, and the tried and true "its always been like that and i have been able to race" call will be made no doubt, If they want to toughen up like this then they are just going to have to measure them correctly On the subject of offset "components" rather than chassis and drive lines, it doesn't seem there is any mention in the rules, so presumably that's still all free. Having said that, I've got two cars, both have the engines and gearboxes in the middle, but one has a left mounted steering box and battery, the other has them right hand mounted - same shocks and springs on both - neither one seems to handle any better or worse then the other, so how much difference does it really make? |
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Post by Graeme Mead on Jun 29, 2015 18:33:21 GMT 12
I have sat back for a while on this, but I went through the mini stock class some years ago and looked at what was going on in this class and then how we might be able to control it. the main problem was the money being spent on cars and what was legal and what was not.
there was motors I found with all sorts of bits that were illegal, there are progressive springs, gearboxes without all the gears, things that are lightened and things that are just clever beyond being caught.
this is real quick overview of what I did.
Once I had every thing together I was told to go away and don't rock the boat, and my ideas were seen as not relevant. The class is fast running out of donor stuff and there needs to be a way to keep the class simple and relevant to training drivers to go one way round the track, at this time. I talked of control motors where maximum horsepower and torque curves were in place, these could be controlled by a start of season dyno and a sealed sheet and at any time during the year this could be checked.
There were options for diffs and gearboxes and suspension that made the field and even field, but no one wanted to know at SNZ level, now 8 years later the problem is still there and there are all sorts of ideas to fix it. Its a bit late because the horses bolted many years ago and money at the end of the day money rules...............and always will
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Post by midway on Jun 29, 2015 20:07:22 GMT 12
Has the time of day come over these ministocks where as we now have three classes ,super mini,s for a faster youth class ,and a standard class for Penelopy Brown to learn on with space saver tyres .We have adult ministocks some places ?/ as well i believe .. Theyre certainly a family affordable class of sport ,If one set of rules are broken in terms of regulations they move up a class until they have fallen over the cliff face with no return ..
There is another class of mini,s :)only eye sight rules ..
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Post by chris13w on Jun 29, 2015 22:51:14 GMT 12
I have sat back for a while on this, but I went through the mini stock class some years ago and looked at what was going on in this class and then how we might be able to control it. the main problem was the money being spent on cars and what was legal and what was not. there was motors I found with all sorts of bits that were illegal, there are progressive springs, gearboxes without all the gears, things that are lightened and things that are just clever beyond being caught. this is real quick overview of what I did. Once I had every thing together I was told to go away and don't rock the boat, and my ideas were seen as not relevant. The class is fast running out of donor stuff and there needs to be a way to keep the class simple and relevant to training drivers to go one way round the track, at this time. I talked of control motors where maximum horsepower and torque curves were in place, these could be controlled by a start of season dyno and a sealed sheet and at any time during the year this could be checked. There were options for diffs and gearboxes and suspension that made the field and even field, but no one wanted to know at SNZ level, now 8 years later the problem is still there and there are all sorts of ideas to fix it. Its a bit late because the horses bolted many years ago and money at the end of the day money rules...............and always will They think they have solved all this with the ridiculous new restrictor, which basically is what they wanted to get in, the rest is all window dressing to distract attention... trust me... remains to be seen how they will run though - and if power is dropped substantially, then anything you gain on the dyno by tuning them will just result in an even bigger percentage difference between the slow engines and the ones at the front. Actually, its the ideal class for a "claimer" rule - allow say $2500 for a proper recon engine and you can buy anyone's engine for that much, if you've spent three times that amount on it its soon going to become an expensive exercise losing one every time you win a race. If you can build a fast one for less you could even be making money on the deal! To make it even simpler, just make it a Nissan only class, there are so few Toyota's anyway due to not being allowed a coil rear end, then ALL the engines are interchangeable, pull it out at the track as soon as it is claimed after the last race. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 6:56:32 GMT 12
I have sat back for a while on this, but I went through the mini stock class some years ago and looked at what was going on in this class and then how we might be able to control it. the main problem was the money being spent on cars and what was legal and what was not. there was motors I found with all sorts of bits that were illegal, there are progressive springs, gearboxes without all the gears, things that are lightened and things that are just clever beyond being caught. this is real quick overview of what I did. Once I had every thing together I was told to go away and don't rock the boat, and my ideas were seen as not relevant. The class is fast running out of donor stuff and there needs to be a way to keep the class simple and relevant to training drivers to go one way round the track, at this time. I talked of control motors where maximum horsepower and torque curves were in place, these could be controlled by a start of season dyno and a sealed sheet and at any time during the year this could be checked. There were options for diffs and gearboxes and suspension that made the field and even field, but no one wanted to know at SNZ level, now 8 years later the problem is still there and there are all sorts of ideas to fix it. Its a bit late because the horses bolted many years ago and money at the end of the day money rules...............and always will They think they have solved all this with the ridiculous new restrictor, which basically is what they wanted to get in, the rest is all window dressing to distract attention... trust me... remains to be seen how they will run though - and if power is dropped substantially, then anything you gain on the dyno by tuning them will just result in an even bigger percentage difference between the slow engines and the ones at the front. Actually, its the ideal class for a "claimer" rule - allow say $2500 for a proper recon engine and you can buy anyone's engine for that much, if you've spent three times that amount on it its soon going to become an expensive exercise losing one every time you win a race. If you can build a fast one for less you could even be making money on the deal! To make it even simpler, just make it a Nissan only class, there are so few Toyota's anyway due to not being allowed a coil rear end, then ALL the engines are interchangeable, pull it out at the track as soon as it is claimed after the last race. I cant believe Im saying this... I actually agree with chris13w on having a claimer rule in this class {and in six shooters}... In most classes a claimer rule just wouldnt work, but these are supposed to be very similar engines, gearboxes and diffs in chassis that are largely the same as well. yes theres a few things you can do to improve them a bit but theres not supposed to be the level of sophistication you find in the other classes! |
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Taz33s
New Member
Pazza Race Team 33s
Posts: 39
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Post by Taz33s on Jun 30, 2015 10:37:03 GMT 12
Its amazing how far people in ministocks go to get an advantage. When i was racing Ministocks 6 Years ago i know someone that matched up and changed the crown wheel and pinion in there diff head so they could race in 3rd gear and they were one of the fastest cars in the country. As for people off setting there cars well if they were scrutineered correctly at the start of the season they should never have made the track and there would be no problem.
The engines in some of the top cars that are doing most of the winning at championships theses days have engines from a certain builder that cost 10k + Now my Stockcar engine that is from a top builder did not cost 10k and im no brain surgeon but how can a Ministock motor cost more than a top Stockcar engine to get built and whats so special about them to make them worth that much? I even know someone that spent 40k on getting a ministock built last season and no i am not joking.
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Post by bikeboy on Jun 30, 2015 14:26:03 GMT 12
in regards to the claim rule, i personally think its a good idea if implemented correctly, but limits will have to be in place so its not used by parents of ministock drivers as a form of attack, maybe somethinglike a 1 claim per time season per driver,
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Post by chris13w on Jun 30, 2015 23:05:43 GMT 12
Its amazing how far people in ministocks go to get an advantage. When i was racing Ministocks 6 Years ago i know someone that matched up and changed the crown wheel and pinion in there diff head so they could race in 3rd gear and they were one of the fastest cars in the country. As for people off setting there cars well if they were scrutineered correctly at the start of the season they should never have made the track and there would be no problem. The engines in some of the top cars that are doing most of the winning at championships theses days have engines from a certain builder that cost 10k + Now my Stockcar engine that is from a top builder did not cost 10k and im no brain surgeon but how can a Ministock motor cost more than a top Stockcar engine to get built and whats so special about them to make them worth that much? I even know someone that spent 40k on getting a ministock built last season and no i am not joking. Bore the cylinders right out and fit Nikasil liners... knife edge the crank... get a dozen heads and manifolds and flow test them till you find the best combination... set every tolerance to optimum clearance... grind a cam with standard lift but different timing and duration... redrill the cam gear to set the valve timing where you want it... change the weights and springs in the distributor for best advance curve... rejet the carb over and over on a dyno until you find the best set up... Its called Blueprinting and has gone on in "stock production" classes forever, takes a lot of time and costs a lot of money If you think a standard engine with the new restrictor will perform as well as one optimised for it - dream on... |
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Post by joker9377 on Jul 8, 2015 16:26:25 GMT 12
I even know someone that spent 40k on getting a ministock built last season and no i am not joking.
[/quote]
Didn't that car also spend some time getting a few manufacturing issues fixed to comply, after it had been racing for a bit lol Claimer is the only way to bring it back into line imo
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