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Post by youngone on Aug 4, 2015 7:05:13 GMT 12
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Post by Pirate Racing NZ on Aug 4, 2015 7:43:04 GMT 12
I was a spectator that day just across from him. I felt bad about the delay for the ambo, we knew it was not onsite. But pardon the pun, ambo at bottom of the cliff, the injuries would still have happened had the been there. There had been close calls before and a camera guy was taken out by a sidecar, the pace ute was hit by a stock car.......
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Post by splinta67 on Aug 4, 2015 11:21:17 GMT 12
I was a spectator that day just across from him. I felt bad about the delay for the ambo, we knew it was not onsite. But pardon the pun, ambo at bottom of the cliff, the injuries would still have happened had the been there. There had been close calls before and a camera guy was taken out by a sidecar, the pace ute was hit by a stock car....... Nothing new with things getting hit at speedway. Lots of pace utes have been hit not only at Meeanee. Not the first incident of a person being taken out while on the track either. Just this one wants to moan about it to the national media
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Post by Tapped on Aug 4, 2015 11:35:28 GMT 12
Its not about having a moan - its about accountability. Feelings would be vastly different had he been a competitor, rather than a volunteer. If it wasnt for volunteers there would be no speedway, granted they don't put bums on seats, but without them there would be no seats for the bums.
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Post by jawa21 on Aug 4, 2015 11:58:11 GMT 12
I feel for this guy. But all infeild track staff know that you are to be heads up watching on coming traffic. I am a track staff volunteer also and see near misses to often, especially fire staff who run on the track before cars stop for a red light.
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Post by mordecai on Aug 4, 2015 12:00:55 GMT 12
Ive always understood its (enter at your own risk) motorsport is a dangerous sport
but this shld have been avoided with good communication
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Post by fearless on Aug 4, 2015 12:02:46 GMT 12
I'm a volunteer out in the middle ,I wave a flag and dice with the drivers. Biggest issue for me is bringing the cars on and off the track and wheel packing.Some drivers seem to take pleasure in ignoring you because they think know best where they want to go. I want you to go to my right of left or stop please do so. I don't need surprises when you ignore my direction. Yellow means caution slow not race speed. The other issue would be to have volunteers that are there each week for you the driver gain experience consistanncy. Very hard to find opeople that can commit to eavey race meeting. If we could sort out committed volunters then you can look at training standard set across all SNZ tracks and Standards that must be met. Again its comes down to the dollar and are the drivers preapred to start to pay race and have a better infeild staff, safety etc.
One expieince from last season good example of what we get out there. End of race stock cars line up to go off the track. Put my hand up to hold them while the gate opens completely and this stock car driver couldn't be bothered waiting for the gate to open fully and rammed the gate with his car. My guys are behind that gate what the hell!. Walked over him he gave me what the hell signal and speed off, I guess his car was getting hot.
have a safe season T1
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Post by Go Slideways on Aug 4, 2015 14:17:19 GMT 12
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Post by Jeffery on Aug 4, 2015 15:25:55 GMT 12
Its not about having a moan - its about accountability. Feelings would be vastly different had he been a competitor, rather than a volunteer. If it wasnt for volunteers there would be no speedway, granted they don't put bums on seats, but without them there would be no seats for the bums. I don't think accountability needs to be sought all the time for the stupidity of some peoples actions.even if he thought the bikes were only doing one lap, he still was in the path of the bikes as they were going towards him. you cant be run over if something has already gone passed you.. in saying that, the solo event should not have been operating without an ambo, more onus needs to be put on procedures and the enforcement of them. A $2000 fine is laughable considering the outcome
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Post by BarryB on Aug 4, 2015 15:31:35 GMT 12
I was a spectator that day just across from him. I felt bad about the delay for the ambo, we knew it was not onsite. But pardon the pun, ambo at bottom of the cliff, the injuries would still have happened had the been there. There had been close calls before and a camera guy was taken out by a sidecar, the pace ute was hit by a stock car....... Nothing new with things getting hit at speedway. Lots of pace utes have been hit not only at Meeanee. Not the first incident of a person being taken out while on the track either. Just this one wants to moan about it to the national media Gut feeling tells me that, with such horrific injuries, it's a little unfair to suggest he's just having a "moan". Put yourself in the same position for one minute; one month in hospital, 7 months in a wheel chair, 12 months off work. He has some right to be unhappy. It's certainly a tough one..........let's hope something can be learned from this from all sides. I think it's a well written article covering an unfortunate scenario. I don't think those knocking the subject of the article can know how they'd react themselves until they were put in exactly the same set of circumstances. I suffered remarkably similar injuries (looking at some of the X-Rays) in a road crash when I was 27 (wow, 33 years ago now), and therefore know that this sort of thing can affect you for the rest of your life. I can also be thankful that I somehow got out of Roydon Collingwood's way at Rotorua when he careered across the infield a few years ago (yes, the infield can be a dangerous place), as I suspect contact there would have likely created injuries far worse than either I or this person in the story have suffered. Would I have gone to the media? As I said earlier, I'm not sure any of us know how we'd react given a certain situation until we're placed in that situation ourselves. Hypothetical is purely that, hypothetical. I'm just glad Roydon missed me so I didn't have to find out Barry B
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Post by Tapped on Aug 4, 2015 15:57:02 GMT 12
Its not about having a moan - its about accountability. Feelings would be vastly different had he been a competitor, rather than a volunteer. If it wasnt for volunteers there would be no speedway, granted they don't put bums on seats, but without them there would be no seats for the bums. I don't think accountability needs to be sought all the time for the stupidity of some peoples actions.even if he thought the bikes were only doing one lap, he still was in the path of the bikes as they were going towards him. you cant be run over if something has already gone passed you.. in saying that, the solo event should not have been operating without an ambo, more onus needs to be put on procedures and the enforcement of them. A $2000 fine is laughable considering the outcome It is about accountability, if no one accepts responibility then the buck doesnt stop with anyone it just keeps on going.
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Post by bikeboy on Aug 4, 2015 15:57:53 GMT 12
in respect to where it puts SNZ,
SNZ has already said that the new health and safety act that is coming in will put more on them, it used to be that volunteers were not covered, that will no longer be the case, and this has wide ranging implications for many sports incl speedway,
as for this incident, there seems to be a lot that went wrong, who allowed the meeting to go ahead with out the ambo, the promotor? or the SNZ offical in charge?
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Post by my2cents on Aug 4, 2015 16:47:16 GMT 12
Accidents happen. Maybe better comuication could have helped? Maybe more flags could have helped? Maybe stop look and listen before crossing "The Road" could have helped?
M5-6-6 Principle Duties of the Clerk of the Course (COC is a Track/Club appointed position) (a)Ensure that all Officials are at their posts and that the medical officer and ambulance are present (d)Control competitors, crews and track officials at a race meeting.
So why blame Speedway NZ? Is it SNZ responisblity to build Air Raid shelters under each track in case World War 3 breaks out while a race meeting is on?
I am not having "a go" at the volunteer, the track or SNZ I'm just sick of the "cotton wool" "not my fault" "someone has to be held accountable" approch our socity and sport is heading
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Aug 4, 2015 23:29:54 GMT 12
in respect to where it puts SNZ, SNZ has already said that the new health and safety act that is coming in will put more on them, it used to be that volunteers were not covered, that will no longer be the case, and this has wide ranging implications for many sports incl speedway, ...
SNZ says, BUT article says ...
.... But it turns out the Health and Safety Reform Bill, which was reported back to Parliament by a select committee last week, will see anyone volunteering for a sports club classed as a "casual volunteer" and not a worker, so they will not have the same health and safety protections as other workers.
Instead they will be treated the same as visitors or customers, much the same as they are at present.
Seems to me the chap is rightly disappointed that SNZ and local officials failed to demonstrate a reasonable degree of 'giving a darn', likely what has provoked his complaint.
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Post by mcfly on Aug 5, 2015 6:39:58 GMT 12
Its not about having a moan - its about accountability. Feelings would be vastly different had he been a competitor, rather than a volunteer. If it wasnt for volunteers there would be no speedway, granted they don't put bums on seats, but without them there would be no seats for the bums. Accountability for what exactly? The rider for losing control? The ambo for not being on site - the promoter was found accountable for this and was fined $2k although I thought the COC was an SNZ official and he is the official who gives the green light. Or does he want someone else to be held accountable for his own bad judgement of walking onto the edge of a competition surface without looking or knowing what was going on. On a side note, did the rider request that this guy was held accountable for erecting a steel pole on or near a competition surface during laps? after all he was also hurt and no doubt so was the bike
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Post by midway on Aug 5, 2015 7:44:00 GMT 12
In reality has he archived anything ?/ His injuries as a volunteer look him in the face every day ,just like us all ,that have been burnt ,and have had a rough deal throughout our lives ,but hey we get on with it ,.blowing your trumpet doesnt improve anything in regards to the actual facts ,no one will stand up and say ,yes mate blame us ,and they will never do ,plain and simple ,they all hide under the umbrella unless a court of authority proves otherwise . Work and safe can have a book as long as your arm ,those who have written the literature and try to force the rules are nine times out of ten some person from overseas or a recruitment agency ,that has absolutely no experience in the outside world of work ,play, or sport . As for the Ronnies club in parliament, a bill of such degree, will have that many interpretations to it ,lawyers will be the only winners .
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Post by tank11 on Aug 5, 2015 7:44:17 GMT 12
First and foremost, look out for yourself. He should not have just walked on to the surface to erect the start line UNTIL he was sure that the practice (hot) laps had been completed. If he had taken the time to listen to their engines, he would have noticed the revs and should have concluded that they were still under power. Being "right" hasn't helped him, but a bit of "common" sense would have.
The fact that the promoter got the $2000 fine is (partially)wrong, as the COC gave the go ahead?(or did the promoter say"get those bikes going"?)
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Post by Hoosier on Aug 5, 2015 8:20:38 GMT 12
It will be an interesting predicament for SNZ moving forward with the new H&S laws. A workplace is a workplace-regardless of whether you are being remunerated.Id assume the infield would/will be defined ,all folk entering that zone will need to be cognizant of the dangers and every hazard that exists.They will be inducted ,they will sign documents.However,s... will happen somewhere sometime,that is the quandary for the promoter and SNZ.
For eg: I own a farm. you pitch in and help me pick up some hay-no $$,just helping me out, tractor runs you over accidentally. Guess who is up for a significant fine!It is a workplace accident regardless of the employment or volunteer status.I MAY get of lighter if i have read the riot act to you and have you sign all the relevant docs-but who does this every time someone rolls in the gate ?The law doesn't stop there- im also responsible for the postie who enters my farm to drop a box off,the power board guys,hell anyone who enters my property legally.
The law is going to make things very very tricky.As an employer i must identify EVERY hazard and make good.I need to be audited by inspectors who will further identify any hazards which require remedy or mitigation .This is all well and good,however the fear of something happening and me going for a skate is present every day.We live in an age whereby someone is to blame,and that someone will be the "employer" or in this case i assume the Promoter or license holder at the track?.Im not so sure SNZ would be accountable,unless their prescribed rules were inadequate?That would be akin to Fed farmers being at fault for my workplace incident wouldnt it?
Here's one that doesn't bear thinking about...........what say i employ you to race my car? You are a paid driver(not many of them i know) -you work for me on race nights- what happens then if it all goes wrong? is a track incident different to say the car dropping off the jack in the pits and crushing you?where does the blame transfer to me the employer?
Here's another one.The grandstand is a public viewing facility obviously-yet the security guy walking around is in paid employment.He falls-lets say he slips, he suffers a reasonable injury(reportable)-this is a workplace accident.If it was a punter that had the same accident- im not so sure.....they've entered an event and accepted various risk as per the ticket- however if the facility was deemed to not be safe for that punter-good night nurse here comes a fine.
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Post by nzrscene on Aug 5, 2015 15:44:25 GMT 12
In answer to mcfly, the COC is not a SNZ Official and does not give the green light. Once the COC has all infield safety crew and tow vehicles are in position and the track gates are closed, the COC hands the event over to the Referee who takes control of the race. The COC takes control after the race is completed and before the next event starts. I was appointed COC at Waikaraka Park when Bruce took over the promotion three seasons ago. Before each meeting, I held a safety briefing with my safety crew and covered the basics as well as any other points that related to that particular meeting. I made it clear to the infield flag marshalls that if we had a red light stoppage, that they waited for the competitors to react to the red track lights before they proceeded to the pole line and that they always face oncoming traffic on the track whether it be wheel packing, rolling starts, etc. Covering the basics at least kept them as safe as could be expected. I always followed up with a safety crew de-brief at the conclusion of the meeting in order to address any concerns.
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