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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Sept 11, 2015 11:14:37 GMT 12
Appreciate this issue doesn't affect everybody and those it doesn't likely don't give a hoot, so you lot go have a coffee or polish your flash stuff ...
I've got my previously approved 6 pin rims, 10 in total, all appear functional, safe, etc.
I've got my rear 6 pin hubs.
They're all illegal, no longer approved as they are not safe BUT no one can tell me why they've suddenly become unsafe.
It seems super stocks can use them which confused the hell out of me. Anyway, moving on.
The latest info I can find, SNZ newsletter, SNZ website, seems to make illegal as at this time anything other than a wide 5 Bassett.
I'm a couple of weeks away from practice days, green sheeting.
I don't have the 3-4 grand for new rims and the wife that, like myself, finds it acceptable to toss out perfectly good ones and load up the credit card.
Then I'm contacted by an engineer type speedway chap who says, "No worries. Replace the pins in your 6 pin hubs to wheel studs, bevel the holes in your 6 pin centres (rims) to accommodate wheel nuts and you're in business."
Well, that sounds all very fine BUT for the fact that SNZ says if I have existing rims they can be used provided they match the saloon approved rim (which is a wide 5).
Anybody out there that can shed light on options that are affordable, practical and safe 'cause SNZ sure as hell can't or won't!
Alternatively, anyone source, fund some rims and hubs?
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Post by percy on Sept 11, 2015 11:28:58 GMT 12
Have you considered contacting Speedway New Zealand and asking for a clarification?
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Post by midway on Sept 11, 2015 12:12:02 GMT 12
Have you considered contacting Speedway New Zealand and asking for a clarification? Has he ever thought how some of us poor people were penalized paying a exorbitant increase in our rates bill when he was on council ..?/ Credit cards give you false hope ,Some good folk in speedway just watch from the side line ,they new after time the expense was or is to much to participate ,but they gave up proudly to ensure they had quality of life .. |
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Post by mod46c on Sept 11, 2015 13:11:01 GMT 12
Those drive dowels look warn out to me and in my view should be replaced, one on them also appears to be cracked. |
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Post by tank11 on Sept 11, 2015 13:24:38 GMT 12
Have you considered contacting Speedway New Zealand and asking for a clarification? Has he ever thought how some of us poor people were penalized paying a exorbitant increase in our rates bill when he was on council ..?/ Credit cards give you false hope ,Some good folk in speedway just watch from the side line ,they new after time the expense was or is to much to participate ,but they gave up proudly to ensure they had quality of life .. One councilor doesn't set the rates. The council staff set them and the councilors just approve it. |
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Post by beachboy on Sept 11, 2015 15:30:51 GMT 12
I'm a couple of weeks away from practice days, green sheeting.
I thought SNZ had let you know about this issue months ago!
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Post by TimSOZ on Sept 11, 2015 17:11:04 GMT 12
As mentioned a number of months ago....those 6 pin rims you have Murray are not approved, and NEVER have been. Look at the list of approved wheels for this season...they are not in there. Look at the old 2014 rulebook...not in there either.
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Post by joe on Sept 11, 2015 19:15:29 GMT 12
Makes you really wonder whats going on. I was just about to change over to Wide 5 Rear hubs & rims. Up until recently the hubs were about $342 each from Cardwells, had a look tonight and they are now $446. Just going to have a good think about whether to bother or not, starting to become a bit of an elitist sport I fear. My thoughts only
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Post by mcfly on Sept 12, 2015 11:55:36 GMT 12
As mentioned a number of months ago....those 6 pin rims you have Murray are not approved, and NEVER have been. Look at the list of approved wheels for this season...they are not in there. Look at the old 2014 rulebook...not in there either. This raises some questions for me 1/ How old is this car and has it had these wheels/hubs on it from new? 2/ Has this car ever competed in an SNZ championship with it's current set-up? 3/ Why was it ever allowed to race if the rims have never been approved? 4/ You mention the rims were never approved, but what about the hubs? 5/ If the hubs were also never approved, I ask question 3 again 6/ If the hubs were previously approved, why are they not now, what has changed? 7/ Why are these hubs ok in a full contact class and not suitable in a non contact class? There are a couple of members on here that constantly bag Murray for going on about this issue. Personally I think he has every right to be upset if he is not being provided answers, and more importantly technical proof and substantiated analysis regarding the reasons for not allowing this setup. It appears to me that there is a tendency within this sport for some with an apparent 'interest' to put forward rule changes to suit their own agenda and then when asked why, simply pull out the "safety" line without any real proof or analysis to back it up. Heres a couple of examples off the top of my head. Murray's rims and hubs - where's the data backing it up? Double layer suits or underwear - where's the data showing this is a need and that it would have 'saved' any injury in say the last 5 - 10 years? No steel capped boots - where is the data showing that these boots have caused a problem? Head and neck restraints - possibly will be compulsory next year - will we have substantiated analysis providing proof of the need for this first? It appears to me that in the contact classes particularly we have had a substantial increase in the number of knock-outs and head injuries in the last 5 - 10 years. What analysis has been done around this very real safety concern? Does this issue correspond with the introduction of full containment seats, head and neck restraints, ratchet belts - this is an area that should have been fully investigated long before single layer suits and steel capped boots! It is very easy for people to shut my questions down by saying increased safety levels should be implemented proactively before injury rather than after, and I agree with this. However we have over 50 years of history that we can use to determine the likelihood of injury, and some of these rule changes do not stack up. Any one of us could hit on the head by meteors or falling space junk, but this does not mean we reinforce our house roofs or outlaw convertible cars because it might happen. |
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Post by beachboy on Sept 12, 2015 18:01:49 GMT 12
one would also argue where is the data backing up that 6 pins are OK to run in Saloons, as for hubs if you cant use 6 pin rims then i don't think a 6 pin hub would be much use. Saloons run a lot wider rim-tyre than any of the contact classes.
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Post by mcfly on Sept 12, 2015 20:13:19 GMT 12
one would also argue where is the data backing up that 6 pins are OK to run in Saloons, as for hubs if you cant use 6 pin rims then i don't think a 6 pin hub would be much use. Saloons run a lot wider rim-tyre than any of the contact classes. Data that they are ok to run in saloons would surly be - they have run them for years with no failures. Once again - they have been run for years with no failure (that I am aware of) so the wider tyre argument is pointless and clutching at straws. BB you seem to have fallen into the 'pick an argument for the sake of it, and bugger the facts' team. |
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Post by beachboy on Sept 12, 2015 21:32:15 GMT 12
one would also argue where is the data backing up that 6 pins are OK to run in Saloons, as for hubs if you cant use 6 pin rims then i don't think a 6 pin hub would be much use. Saloons run a lot wider rim-tyre than any of the contact classes. Data that they are ok to run in saloons would surly be - they have run them for years with no failures. Once again - they have been run for years with no failure (that I am aware of) so the wider tyre argument is pointless and clutching at straws. BB you seem to have fallen into the 'pick an argument for the sake of it, and bugger the facts' team. So your a Ambo at the bottom of the cliff person then? What you are saying is that it would be still ok to keep racing when a wheel gate falls off a car onto the track, no body has been seroiusly hurt by this (that i know of. just like you mcfly  ) We know it could be a serious problem if it happens but lets just carry on racing because there is no data yet. As for the facts mcfly if you want to be factual then you need to provide the certified fact the rims you want to race are ok to use in that given class as per the rules, and not just hearsay or no problems yet mate. I also think you will find this thread was created with the "pick an argument for the sake of it" reason |
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Post by midway on Sept 12, 2015 21:34:49 GMT 12
I must admit guilt in bagging Murray
question #3 is a very valid question
But who has green sheeted this vechile ,and stamped those rims ,and further more allowed the car on the track if as Tim says it doesnt comply with the rule book
This problem isnt the first and wont be the last ,some rules must be made open for whoever,s desecration ..
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Post by beachboy on Sept 12, 2015 21:42:20 GMT 12
If that's the case Murray should be thankful to SNZ as they have allowed him to run illegal rims for a couple of seasons without having to spend big $$ to upgrade  |
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Post by stockyracer on Sept 13, 2015 0:35:23 GMT 12
man i am so lost with this stuff, i dont wear to begin apart from winning lotto. i brought 8 new and unused rims to this date for a stockcar last season that are now deemed unusable, so cool $900 in the scrap bin. have to fork out quite abit of $$ for the new fire safety equipment and fire extuingusher ect?? im all for making everyone safe but for god sake make a rule and stick with it. i bet you next year they will say the two layer suit didnt work so compulsory three layer next season, cumpolsery hans device etc etc. sorry to go off topic slightly but pretty much at the stage that i cant afford a sport i enjoy so now a spectator.
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Sept 14, 2015 21:48:32 GMT 12
man i am so lost with this stuff, i dont wear to begin apart from winning lotto. i brought 8 new and unused rims to this date for a stockcar last season that are now deemed unusable, so cool $900 in the scrap bin. have to fork out quite abit of $$ for the new fire safety equipment and fire extinguisher ect?? im all for making everyone safe but for god sake make a rule and stick with it. i bet you next year they will say the two layer suit didn't work so compulsory three layer next season, compulsory hans device etc etc. sorry to go off topic slightly but pretty much at the stage that i cant afford a sport i enjoy so now a spectator.
This isn't off the topic as it is affecting our sport's viability, sustainability which is directly related to 'Jezz SNZ, I'm Lost', just as I suspect they are.
This is a Board that we rely on to enhance our sport on our behalf, to add value to the organisations members - it's sole reason for existing. That's all members.
Tim Savill posted a linked in another discussion, a DEC 2008 (6 years back) newsletter from the SNZ Board which I copy below.
It is about their (our VISION) for SNZ. The issues facing stickyracer and so many others are in breach of our own 'Vision Statement' in that competitors numbers appear to be less today than 6 years ago, in stark contrast to the vision statement. By my count we've around 2000 today.
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Post by percy on Sept 14, 2015 22:30:39 GMT 12
By my count we've around 2000 today. The number your looking for is 2,580 licensed competitors per the 2014/15 statistical snapshot available on the SNZ website with the 2014/15 AGM minutes. A 2% increase on the previous year. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 7:18:05 GMT 12
By my count we've around 2000 today. The number your looking for is 2,580 licensed competitors per the 2014/15 statistical snapshot available on the SNZ website with the 2014/15 AGM minutes. A 2% increase on the previous year. and a decrease of several hundred from a couple of years before that. |
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Post by penman on Sept 15, 2015 8:56:22 GMT 12
Is anybody factoring in external influences during the intervening years?
Discretionary spend (which surely relates directly to both competing in, and attending speedway) must have surely taken a hit during a period of significant financial uncertainty for a large number of people. Many of our competitors are self-employed business-people who, surely, must have been focusing their efforts on keeping their companies liquid during that period. Some won't have succeeded, which would also attribute some to the decrease (or lack of growth) in the same period.
I'm also not sure if something like the Canterbury Earthquake may have had an impact - it's certainly possible.
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Post by BarryB on Sept 15, 2015 8:58:32 GMT 12
The number your looking for is 2,580 licensed competitors per the 2014/15 statistical snapshot available on the SNZ website with the 2014/15 AGM minutes. A 2% increase on the previous year. and a decrease of several hundred from a couple of years before that. Several hundred? I haven't got all of the figures in front of me, but I don't think they varied that wildly over decades, let alone a two year period. Certainly I suspect from 2007 onwards they would have dropped a little year by year for a few years while we were in a recession, but would imagine they've climbed ever so slightly over the past couple of years. Barry B |
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) We know it could be a serious problem if it happens but lets just carry on racing because there is no data yet.
