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Post by BarryB on Nov 29, 2015 8:43:14 GMT 12
This just took on a whole new level of stupidity. I'll probably regret asking, but are you able to explain this comment? Barry B |
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Post by Phred on Nov 29, 2015 8:43:31 GMT 12
Having watched Wayne H in many races (including teams) he can be inconsistent. From the night in Auckland where he and P Rees managed to beat a full strength Rotorua team to other races where he would seem to drift along not really being effective.
I have no idea why this occurs but when he is hot he is very good. I guess this must drive the team manager/s to distraction.
It is great to learn he was back to his best in the Tigers race.
Rumour suggests that team Hemi has been on the quest for more power. Power production is partly a function of engine revolutions.
Guess he is winding the Ford higher than before which may account for the comment made above.
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Post by teamschampshistorian on Nov 29, 2015 8:49:51 GMT 12
I couldn't give a flying [Use your imagination] about the technical part of it, all I care about is the racing and the drivers. The Teams Champs is to decide who the best team is in the world for that year. No different from the races to find 1NZ. I have considered the Teams Champs a national title my entire life. And how the largest single meeting in the season, drawing some of the best drivers from around the world to the track, and bringing in thousands of spectators, is not regarded as a National Title is beyond me. It sounds like everyone at SNZ needs to be fired. I swear NZ has to be the dumbest country in the entire world. It would be a miracle if something in this country (whether it was the government, or a private organisation) functioned logically and properly. Clearly we slept in when God handed out intelligence. But regardless, I couldn't care one iota about what the technical details are, its a national title in my book and anyone who disagrees can try me. I really think you should consider changing your logon name. There's arguably only one person suited to that name, and it's not you. To be a historian you have to deal with facts without sentiment, and you're clearly not doing that here. The fact is the Palmy Teams Champs is a promotional event, not a National Title, and SNZ has nothing to do with that fact. Perhaps it was only you that slept in on the morning you refer too? At least when the "ability to seperate fact from fantasy" brain cells were handed out... Barry B Actually, you couldn't be more wrong Barry. Sentiment is extremely common among historians. I have hundreds of books on Military History, and plenty of them disagree on whether a decision was right or wrong, influential or not, etc. The facts remain relatively similar, as you can't argue or change those. But the sentiment changes greatly. I'm reading "The Second World War" by Antony Beevor, and covering the Attack of Mers-el-Kebir, he expressed the sentiment that it was a horrible act that could have been avoided by the British. Yet I have read books by historians who are just as high in rank as Beevor, who say it was the correct decision to make. People disagree. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that it isn't a title, as it isn't. I'm pointing out the stupidity behind that decision, and arguing the importance of the event. A self-propelled gun isn't a tank, its a self-propelled gun. Fact. Yet plenty of people will argue it is a tank, and consider it to be one. Sentiment can be found in any history book in the world. Its something humans posses, so unless the book was written by a robot, there is likely some sentiment in it. SNZ has nothing to do with that fact. They are the overriding organisation in control of the vast majority of speedway events in this country. They could easily make it a national title, or take over control of it. Nothing is stopping them. Edit: It took on a whole new level of stupidity because SNZ in their all mighty wisdom think that the Stockcar Teams Champs is a national title, but not the Superstock Teams Champs. I shouldn't have to explain how ridiculous that is. They are exactly the same event, just held for different classes. There is no difference I can think of that would justify one being a national title, and one not. |
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Post by BarryB on Nov 29, 2015 9:04:07 GMT 12
I think you'll find the Palmy promotion might have something to say about SNZ taking over their meeting and taking it on the road. And the elimination from the event for the Manawatu Mustangs that would then ensue. Also, the way the SNZ AGM works is that the members (that being two delegates representing the membership of all 24 tracks) vote on these things, vote in or vote out. SNZ head office do not make these decisions.
Where you let sentiment get involved in your argument is when you find out you're incorrect about the Palmy Teams Champs being a National Title, you say that it is in your mind so that's all that matters. That's not how history works to my understanding....
Barry B
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Post by tony27 on Nov 29, 2015 9:04:34 GMT 12
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the teams champs been around a lot longer than the stockcar teams.
When was the last time a team was turned away, Kihikihi? I don't count last years rumoured Gisborne team as it didn't exist before the Manawatu superstock champs. Surely that means it's open to any track that runs superstocks
I'm aware that the Mustangs wouldn't be allowed in the stockcar teams as it says only 1 team per track but that would have to be the only thing that differs
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Post by tank11 on Nov 29, 2015 9:08:08 GMT 12
We shall see if the Gisborne Giants are invited to said champs.
National titles are either rotational or allocated, but in stockcar teams are won.
This one doesn't move an inch, it's purely invitational, limited team numbers and open to international teams.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2015 9:10:39 GMT 12
Not open to all tracks. Proof. Cause last I checked, if you can get a team together and make it to the event, you can compete. I going to assume there was supposed to be a question mark not a period after the word proof. Given that assumption can i be so bold as to ask, the last time you checked who did you check with? While i have your ear, being a historian, can u pls tell me how many "invitational" type teams have entered the event over the years the event has been running since day 1, by invitational mean as in North Island selection, South island selection etc. And seen as we have this korero going on, can u tell us a bit about yourself, I don't expect name, address and shoe size but age, what makes you a TCH etc. |
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Post by tank11 on Nov 29, 2015 9:16:05 GMT 12
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the teams champs been around a lot longer than the stockcar teams. When was the last time a team was turned away, Kihikihi? I don't count last years rumoured Gisborne team as it didn't exist before the Manawatu superstock champs. Surely that means it's open to any track that runs superstocks I'm aware that the Mustangs wouldn't be allowed in the stockcar teams as it says only 1 team per track but that would have to be the only thing that differs International teams wouldn't be allowed, unless certain criteria was meet, just as in individual champs. That's two.... |
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Post by tony27 on Nov 29, 2015 9:17:13 GMT 12
Actually didn't even consider that
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anonp
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Post by anonp on Nov 29, 2015 9:26:10 GMT 12
Half panthers half mustangs, 94p will end up in the middle whether he starts the race or not what about the Panthers race Tony27.. did you consider that.. the race result to end the way it did?? William drove great didn't he?? only went in the middle for the coin toss |
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Post by teamschampshistorian on Nov 29, 2015 9:38:21 GMT 12
I think you'll find the Palmy promotion might have something to say about SNZ taking over their meeting and taking it on the road. And the elimination from the event for the Manawatu Mustangs that would then ensue. Also, the way the SNZ AGM works is that the members (that being two delegates representing the membership of all 24 tracks) vote on these things, vote in or vote out. SNZ head office do not make these decisions. Where you let sentiment get involved in your argument is when you find out you're incorrect about the Palmy Teams Champs being a National Title, you say that it is in your mind so that's all that matters. That's not how history works to my understanding.... Barry B Haven't these people heard of a dictatorship. Just say, we are going to take over the title, if you don't like it, move on. They don't have to take it on the road. And they don't have to eliminate the Mustangs either. You're acting like the governing body of the sport can't make their own rules. They clearly can when it comes to safety, so why don't they just say, "This is a national title, it will only be held here, and multiple teams from the same track are allowed". There, problem solved. That would be like having an argument over whether or not a certain figure was influential in history, or a certain invention was the greatest. I have every right to think that something is or should be a certain way. Its called opinion. Everyone can have them. My opinion is that it is a national title. I never claimed that was a fact. Its my opinion, and anyone getting the two confused needs a refresher course in English. And to reply to your post Ramjam, I checked the SNZ manual. The only restriction to a team entering is they can only have one imported driver, the rest have to be contracted to that track. There is nothing in the manual saying anything else. There hasn't been an invitational team of that type. I know there has been a North Island select at Nationals up in Auckland, but none have raced in the Teams Champs. The list of teams is GB Lions, Canterbury Glen Eagles, Hawkes Bay Hawkeyes, Kihikihi Kings, Manawatu Mustangs, Nelson Tigers, Palmerston North Panthers, Rotorua Rebels, Stratford Scrappers, Waikato Wanderers, Wanganui Warriors, Baypark Busters, Auckland Allstars, Wellington Wildcats, Stratford Gladiators, Bay of Plenty Raiders?, Otago Cougars, Blenheim Vikings, Gisborne Giants, Rotorua Rookie Rebels, Te Marua Terminators, Nelson Vipers, Hawkes Bay Allstars, and Wanganui B. I don't see anyone else making a history of the Teams Champs. No book exists, and the closest thing you would get would be Teams programmes which are extremely sparse in their info. |
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Post by tank11 on Nov 29, 2015 10:51:04 GMT 12
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Post by tigersfan on Nov 29, 2015 10:57:23 GMT 12
U got that right !! Full credit to the Panthers, I didn't see the race but by all accounts my tigers were well beaten. Anyone able to give us a quick run down on who did the damage and who finished for the tigers? Cheers |
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Post by hbhornets on Nov 29, 2015 11:47:27 GMT 12
i anit gonna comment on the palmy superstock teams. rather the stockcar teams. the year in palmy where only 11 teams showed up. that should never have happened. in the event 11 teams show up there should be a rule stating the track hosting is allowed two teams for develpoment purposes. make it optional. and only if there is under 11 teams at the champs. i do think there needs to be 12 teams. 12 or 16. the format works for. maybe quilfing races to find the top 12? make it more in line with 7's. give the north and south island some many spots each and have a north island stockcar champs and south. to find the top 12 to do battle. just my thoughts. but that is years away. but looking forward never hurts. only looking back. (sorry for the horrible spelling)
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Post by maninstand on Nov 29, 2015 11:58:58 GMT 12
The Giants will be there end of story. As for the panthers it's easy racing from my keyboard but I hope 79p learns to elimate drivers without destroying his car as it seems to be a regular thing.
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Post by BarryB on Nov 29, 2015 12:27:47 GMT 12
TCH, SNZ has a constitution to which it legally has to follow. It is not a dictatorship, cannot be and will not be. It's impossible to debate with somebody as uninterested in the actual facts, and dealing with logic and legalities, as you seem to be, plus, as has been rightfully pointed out, this is wayyyy off topic. My apologies for my part in that.
Barry B
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Post by kevin888 on Nov 29, 2015 13:30:56 GMT 12
on a positive note good to see that using a mixed combination to allow others to step up into the panthers and everyone has to start somewhere.its a bit like when people move on from successful teams you have to try new combinations and give those up and comers a go to show what potential is out there
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Post by busterbell on Nov 29, 2015 14:53:09 GMT 12
by all accounts a disappointing effort from the tigers. loosing one car off the start is always going to give the opposition an early advantage. it looked to be (from the footage i have seen) a lack lustre race.
they wont ever make the palmy teams "the official" national title otherwise the palmy rulebook gets binned and it has to be raced under snz rules......
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Post by elusivandy on Nov 29, 2015 17:05:25 GMT 12
Any 1 no where any footage of this race is online ?
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Post by TimSOZ on Nov 29, 2015 17:55:15 GMT 12
Just sticking to the topic....with two debutants in the team last night there have now been 95 drivers race for the Panthers at home since 1963. Wayne Hemi remains ninth on the all-time list for the Panthers with 27 home teams races dating back to 2003/04. Scott Joblin has just overtaken Bill Dorn by starting in his 14th teams race at home over a five season stretch. He's now 22nd on the list of most races at home for the Panthers. There have been just five debutants this decade for the Panthers, being Joblin, Asher Rees, Jack Miers and now Humphrey and Humphries. I feel a name change coming on......  |
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