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Post by orapiuwharf on Jun 4, 2018 13:29:44 GMT 12
Go fast for Mayor I say. Ps we also need a Prime Minister.
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Post by John W. on Jun 4, 2018 13:30:09 GMT 12
Gofast, with a statement like that we need to get you involved in the running of speedway in Auckland and New Zealand...Gofast for SNZ president...Well summed up.But the question remains. Is the development sign sealed and delivered or are SPL now risking loosing everything for the sport? Something else that the open wheelers need to remember - ASSCC is an club run by the drivers for the drivers. If the two groups usited, then open wheelers would have every right to stand for the exec committee and be elected. Therefore they would have the same voice as the current ASSCC classes. Under SPLs leadership it is all dependent on what the money makers want. There would be minimal grass roots and developmental classes. My suggestion....Take ASSCC constitution. Rework it a bit. And rename the club Auckland Speedway Club. The club in turn can hire the best promoter to market the events - but the drivers still keep control. So clarify the meaning of Bruce Robertson involvement as a Promoter as you have quoted AssCC is a club that part is correct ,but by the drivers ? for the drivers ,?.. The other item of interest is SPL, is solely a promotional company that has a contract with the Super City Council ,,like in years gone by, for example Willie kay was the Promoter ..both,have had a investment in western springs on a promotional level ,but they dont own the place nor does the AssCc .. So if you look at the big picture neither venue is much use simply where are you going to park the paying public ,the AssCC has a tin pot carpark ,surrounded by industrial traffic 24hrs a day ,the Springs is no better but caters for it a little better just .. Not sure what you are asking. I am under the impression ASSCC made a decision a few years back to on Bruce Robertson to assist in the promotion of Stockcars. At that time, ASSCC were struggling (drivers often do not make good promoters). Since then the club has turned around and is showing a positive balance sheet. There is still room for improvement. But things are heading in the right direction. ASSCC is a club that represents the drivers. I the majority of the drivers do not like the direction it is heading then they can can elect a new exec the following year and make a change. The drivers at the Springs do not have that opportunity. Their only choice is to go elsewhere to race. |
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Post by midway on Jun 4, 2018 14:00:15 GMT 12
Midway, you like many are missing the big picture here - not a criticism, just an observation. What we are all talking about should have nothing to do with the personalities currently involved in either camp. It is about the future of the sport. The city has indicated that they are looking at the next 75 years (give or take) when they began to look into Waikaraka Park as a development site for the sport. Remember the context right now in Auckland, with housing shortages, Panuku's Onehunga Develompent Plan, shortages of playing fields and unprecedented growth in population. The very easy thing for the council to do in light of all of that would be to move motorsport out of the city altoghether, and in the case of Waikaraka Park, bow to the pressure from the Parks team and turn it into more football pitches. But they didn't, and there are many reasons for this. The first, and it is important, is they (RFA) acknowledge the tradition and support the sport has and made a decision to keep it in the city for the fans (whether you want to believe that or not, keep the pig picture in mind). Other reasons are to do with putting council money where it will do the most good. The whole stadium strategy is about unpicking the poor planning, old 'school tie' nature of site control, huge maintenance cost and restrictive use (= can't get any of them to generate enough revenue to justify their existence and cost) and haphazard nature of development under the previous separate city councils in Auckland - its a political minefield. In considering a location for a Regional Facility to spend rate payers money on (any stadium plan internationally goes through this), a whole lot of other things have to be considered. Transport connections, ability to grow, revenue generation (the numbers), ability for other community groups to benefit by having a facility close and the wider economic benefits to local businesses (i.e. the people who pay for it can get benefit from it whether they are directly involved or not). In looking at the Waikaraka Park location, the council are satisfied that the Unitary Plan not only allows for motorsport to be developed in the centre of the city, but the location will be unaffected by future zoning. At the same time it will benefit from planned growth and redevelopment in the immediate surroundings. The Panuku Onehunga Plan includes a large chunk of land holdings immediately across the road to the West. They get control of that land in 2025 and are looking to create a light industrial park for industry, and the idea of a 'gasoline alley' has been floated with that zone possibly heavily flavoured by related motorsport and performance car businesses. Not saying this will happen, but the location allows it to happen easily and organically without any planning restrictions. Other community groups also need to benefit from City Spend. Currently there are a vast number of groups that make use of the Waikaraka Park speedway and its club rooms outside of the motorsport calendar. Development that provides more and better facilities also benefits this large number of local community groups, and helps cement the importance of the speedway in the city as a highly prized and valuable member of the wider community. The Waikaraka Park location ticks so many boxes on the 'right place for development' sheet, it is very hard to argue (unless your focus is very narrow, and all about what is in it for you). So lets leave that there for now, and look at the speedway activity in isolation. The ASSCC has tenure on an existing Motorsport Precinct and has been around for 50 years - a lot longer than SPL. The ASSCC represents a lot more Speedway Racing Classes in Auckland than SPL. The ASSCC has a lot more competitors likely to be affected by a decision to do with the future of Auckland Speedway than SPL. The ASSCC has not fired a shot, and in fact has been holding out the olive branch through all of this. Any 'change of plan' being floated behind the scenes will necessarily bring the ASSCC into the consultation process if it affects their tenure of Waikaraka Park, and some fairly searching questions will be asked of Auckland Councillors seemingly supportive of diverting rate payers money into a venture that benefits a commercial entity with a likely outcome of harming the sport rather than developing it. So lets leave that there for now, and go back to the big picture here - I have an opinion (obviously), but not all the answers - so here a are a few questions for I have to ask the question Gofast where is this big chunk of land west of waikaraka park ,in the manukau harbour, or even further along tidal road in the melting pot of pacific steel,or at the airport ,or the old mangere sewage ponds being developed into recreational use .. The big picture as you call it is the future of the sport run by professional promotion not some club or its mentors .. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 14:05:16 GMT 12
Midway, the role of promoter or events management is a good question, but a couple of quick things first.
The sports grounds at Western Springs are likely to be upgraded as part of city wide sports fields improvements and will probably no longer be available for spectator car parking (or competitor trailer parking) - There are 'big pictures' to look at around all the sites. The car park at Waikaraka Park is small, but is not the only place to park - keep in mind that the industrial traffic is not 24hrs and Mt Smart has been reasonably successful in partnering with industrial sites near by to provide spectator car parking for the Warriors and also concerts up to 30,000 people - plenty of scope for car parking in the existing environment let alone the car parking that will be provided on the Panuku land very close by as part of the longer term development of the area.
The promoter role is probably a bigger question - do you give an event manager / promoter full control of the revenue and let them take all the risk? Do you take the risk out and pay them a handsome fixed sum (with some performance criteria to hold them to account) and share the revenue? Do you try and control everything and try to do everything - not recommended.
The traditional role of the promoter in speedway has been about risk and reward - it hasn't worked very well or been a very good business model. It would be interesting to see how SPL measure up on pure business terms in relation to the amount of private money that has been required to keep things going in relation to a return, they probably don't do as well as everyone might suspect - similar would be true of Waikaraka Park through the lean years with more being put in than is coming out. But if you started to look at the numbers a well run Auckland venue, not restricted to 12 nights and bringing together a broader fan base, perhaps there is an answer that limits risk and delivers revenue - enough for everyone to get a drink, maybe not a big fast one, but perhaps big enough to make it worthwhile and last for a long time with less risk?
What are your thoughts Midway? Oh and by the way, the harbour is South - Panuku development land is immediately behind the car park all the way back to Onehunga.
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Post by midway on Jun 4, 2018 14:23:44 GMT 12
So having a Promoter only interested in stockcars is a little unfair to the rest of the balance of competitors that pay registration fees to the club ,but dont get the same rewards .
Can see why rolling thunder went to the springs ,if jamo,s involvement with the mods wasnt there many would vacate to Huntly perhaps //..
Now if you dont wish to race under the umbrella of spL your option is quite clear you can elect which club that runs that class to belong to .
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Post by magilla on Jun 4, 2018 15:56:21 GMT 12
no one yet has said how you cater to the number of classes without having 8 hour long race meetings.
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Post by John W. on Jun 4, 2018 16:30:37 GMT 12
no one yet has said how you cater to the number of classes without having 8 hour long race meetings. I have made a suggestion on another thread you have replied to. macgor.proboards.com/post/431317/threadIt is simply a matter of not having all classes on every night. This already happens at Waikaraka Park. If both groups do join then you would have more meetings per year so all classes get a good chance to race. The nuts and bolts would still need to be worked out, but I do not think that would be too hard as long as the trouble makers were left out of the discussions. Unfortunately you personally will not like this solution. You have made it clear you do not like contact classes nor can you tolerate development classes. My thoughts are the loss of one spectator to improve the sport in Auckland better than watching the sport die if we "try to hold onto what has always been". This is not a direct attack on you. It is more a comment that we will not be able to please everybody., but we can try to please the majority and take the sport to a new level. First year, I envision the two groups have seperate race nights with a couple of joint "feature" nights. This allows the volunteers and officials to get united. In following years there will be a combined calendar. Some nights may be "speed" nights with Sprint Cars and Super Saloons leading the programme while other nights will be "Smash n Bash" nights with the Superstocks and demo derbies. A standard night will be a combination of some contact and non contact classes with number of race nights decided by a combination of spectator popularity and competitor numbers. Variety is key to growing the sports popularity to "new" spectators. On nights when Open Wheelers are the premier class there should be at least one contact class and vice versa. Show the public how varied Speedway can be. |
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Post by midway on Jun 4, 2018 19:24:15 GMT 12
Go Fast ,my understanding is then lower Alfred St ,to lower Victoria st .?
Victoria st has now become concrete warehouses,where there used to be a tip at end of that st run by Walsh contractors a few years ago now .
There is a chap from Kingdom st inner city that the council well knows has a vested interest in the street ,
Alfred st you have maxi part owned by the Finlay group of folk that had Ray Vincents yard in Penrose rd ,wilkins & davies yard plus on call cranes at the bottom of the street .
i guess if you became extremely bored with thinking outside the square you could walk along the walkway on the edge of the manukau inlet for a spot of fresh air ..perhaps
Building such a new venue on the reclaimed land next to Puketutu island would be a option ,but when and where ever it happens lets not hope it ends up like the mess and cost to ratepayers like Baypark has ..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 20:29:56 GMT 12
Agree with that whole heartedly about not making a mess Midway!
The land you refer to has large blocks owned by council under lease until 2025. In amongst it are a number of privately held smaller blocks, but the Onehunga Plan that Panuku (The old Auckland Development Agency) are looking to unlock the larger blocks and create an industrial 'innovation' park. It is all reclaimed land from the Western side of Alfred street. Alfred Street basically marks out the edge of the natural ground, and Waikaraka Park sits over the old One Tree Hill lava flow (about 2m down) - the old sea foreshore is Alfred Street.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 11:55:04 GMT 12
How did a spat between SPL and their landlord now tun into SPL becoming the self appointed spokesperson for the future of Speedway in Auckland?
Exactly! ..Why do springers automatically think they are in charge? the encumbents are Asscc...at WP.. is all this crappola the reason why the springs have been courting the supersaloons..so they can claim some form of common ground...I never was happy to see the supersaloons running there...I dont know why you would want to run on the little donut when youve got a far better surface and track at home...did they pay the drivers shyteloads to run there ..its all part of their scheme, next it'll be the bikes being offered a run...and soon the springs will be claiming they cater to all divisions of SNZ and should be leading the way for speedway in any and all discussions...simply because they been round since the 1835 donkey derby..!! your losing your track.how does it feel....shoulda played nicer..!!.
If you liked it then you shoulda put a roof on it!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 12:13:06 GMT 12
we are yet to see what difference will be made to numbers thru the turnstiles for the springs if they were not restricted to 12 meetings..if they had 23 meeting..will they still pull the numbers they claim to get now..or will more supply satiate the demand and lead to smaller crowds...lets see what happens there..we all know theres racing at WP nearly every weekend...for a decent stretch of the year...and yes crowds dwindle with too much of a good thing...not a problem the springs have faced lately..so what ever gets done it needs a roof..for the long term financial benefit to racing and the wider community...but speedway shouldnt be waiting for govt to pay out for this and that ..we need to start a fund ..find some real investors in a speedway based roofed stadium and start leading this thing..instead of being herded thru the nose like cattle...
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Post by midway on Jun 5, 2018 12:24:25 GMT 12
Your well thought out plan of conspiracy to conquer SPL has shot yourself in the foot
SPL is a promotional company ,there fore it has every right to promote which ever ,and who ever it likes in the terms of speedway or anything else that takes its liking to such as the bikes that raced there under the lease arrangements it has with the council .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 12:39:03 GMT 12
Your well thought out plan of conspiracy to conquer SPL has shot yourself in the foot SPL is a promotional company ,there fore it has every right to promote which ever ,and who ever it likes in the terms of speedway or anything else that takes its liking to such as the bikes that raced there under the lease arrangements it has with the council . ok, I dont feel shot in the foot at all... but from what you say ..I reply.. thats exactly why WP should remain with the Asscc..they are at least keen on their sport and are not just in it for cash making purposes..with a decent promoter like the Holden Man involved, the clubs board,and its members, speedway would be well looked after Im sure. I guess if BR wanted to promote the new WP he could put together whatever team he wants to look after the detail while he looks at the big picture... I prefer BR to Springs crew...my personal preference |
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Post by midway on Jun 5, 2018 17:00:04 GMT 12
Your well thought out plan of conspiracy to conquer SPL has shot yourself in the foot SPL is a promotional company ,there fore it has every right to promote which ever ,and who ever it likes in the terms of speedway or anything else that takes its liking to such as the bikes that raced there under the lease arrangements it has with the council . ok, I dont feel shot in the foot at all... but from what you say ..I reply.. thats exactly why WP should remain with the Asscc..they are at least keen on their sport and are not just in it for cash making purposes..with a decent promoter like the Holden Man involved, the clubs board,and its members, speedway would be well looked after Im sure. I guess if BR wanted to promote the new WP he could put together whatever team he wants to look after the detail while he looks at the big picture... I prefer BR to Springs crew...my personal preference So if theyre not into cash making purposes as youve said ,how do they pay BR,prizemoney ,running costs ,etc ,or do they have a large number of competitors,paying extraordinary large amounts of subscription fees ..and once or twice had a turnover on paper of 800to 900k per season .. I dont have a preference either ,but when you are dealing with hard earned ratepayers money i suggest you spend wisely ... |
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Post by hienekenno1 on Jun 5, 2018 17:13:10 GMT 12
There was supposed to be a announcement today on the western springs Facebook page what the council are doing but nothing as yet,hopefully tomorrow and we can all be put out of our misery lol.
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Post by hbhornets on Jun 5, 2018 19:09:13 GMT 12
no one yet has said how you cater to the number of classes without having 8 hour long race meetings. I have made a suggestion on another thread you have replied to. macgor.proboards.com/post/431317/threadIt is simply a matter of not having all classes on every night. This already happens at Waikaraka Park. If both groups do join then you would have more meetings per year so all classes get a good chance to race. The nuts and bolts would still need to be worked out, but I do not think that would be too hard as long as the trouble makers were left out of the discussions. Unfortunately you personally will not like this solution. You have made it clear you do not like contact classes nor can you tolerate development classes. My thoughts are the loss of one spectator to improve the sport in Auckland better than watching the sport die if we "try to hold onto what has always been". This is not a direct attack on you. It is more a comment that we will not be able to please everybody., but we can try to please the majority and take the sport to a new level. First year, I envision the two groups have seperate race nights with a couple of joint "feature" nights. This allows the volunteers and officials to get united. In following years there will be a combined calendar. Some nights may be "speed" nights with Sprint Cars and Super Saloons leading the programme while other nights will be "Smash n Bash" nights with the Superstocks and demo derbies. A standard night will be a combination of some contact and non contact classes with number of race nights decided by a combination of spectator popularity and competitor numbers. Variety is key to growing the sports popularity to "new" spectators. On nights when Open Wheelers are the premier class there should be at least one contact class and vice versa. Show the public how varied Speedway can be. thi is locial. and what i had in mind when i mentioned a merage. but i dont think contact classes have a place over christmas period withe international series. unless auckland is hosting a major contact class title. but apart from those two weeks yes should be merged completely. i cant see auckland speedway doing any good until those two sort there stuff out with each other evenbefore the countcil get involved |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 19:10:53 GMT 12
akl stocks has nothing to sort out,... it the springs has the problem..lol
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Post by John W. on Jun 5, 2018 20:26:09 GMT 12
I have made a suggestion on another thread you have replied to. macgor.proboards.com/post/431317/threadIt is simply a matter of not having all classes on every night. This already happens at Waikaraka Park. If both groups do join then you would have more meetings per year so all classes get a good chance to race. The nuts and bolts would still need to be worked out, but I do not think that would be too hard as long as the trouble makers were left out of the discussions. Unfortunately you personally will not like this solution. You have made it clear you do not like contact classes nor can you tolerate development classes. My thoughts are the loss of one spectator to improve the sport in Auckland better than watching the sport die if we "try to hold onto what has always been". This is not a direct attack on you. It is more a comment that we will not be able to please everybody., but we can try to please the majority and take the sport to a new level. First year, I envision the two groups have seperate race nights with a couple of joint "feature" nights. This allows the volunteers and officials to get united. In following years there will be a combined calendar. Some nights may be "speed" nights with Sprint Cars and Super Saloons leading the programme while other nights will be "Smash n Bash" nights with the Superstocks and demo derbies. A standard night will be a combination of some contact and non contact classes with number of race nights decided by a combination of spectator popularity and competitor numbers. Variety is key to growing the sports popularity to "new" spectators. On nights when Open Wheelers are the premier class there should be at least one contact class and vice versa. Show the public how varied Speedway can be. thi is locial. and what i had in mind when i mentioned a merage. but i dont think contact classes have a place over christmas period withe international series. unless auckland is hosting a major contact class title. but apart from those two weeks yes should be merged completely. i cant see auckland speedway doing any good until those two sort there stuff out with each other evenbefore the countcil get involved Why should stockcars not be on the programme? The open wheeler purists can use the time as a hotdog class whilst those that want a variety of entertainment can sit back and enjoy an different style of racing. I suspect you will find a vast majority staying in their seats as variety will be what speedway need to use to increase its popularity. |
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drever
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Post by drever on Jun 5, 2018 22:32:40 GMT 12
I would imagine the Super Saloons & Modifieds would be happy to run under a SPL run stadium. Sprintcars, Super Saloons, Midgets, Modifieds, TQs, F2s, 1/4 Midgets !!! 18 nights to showcase all these cars!
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Post by graemeh on Jun 6, 2018 8:06:27 GMT 12
I would imagine the Super Saloons & Modifieds would be happy to run under a SPL run stadium. Sprintcars, Super Saloons, Midgets, Modifieds, TQs, F2s, 1/4 Midgets !!! 18 nights to showcase all these cars! I would imagine some of the classes currently running at the Springs would be happy to run under a club run organisation where they can possibly have more of a say in how things are run rather than their current situation where they have little say at all. |
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