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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 8:12:03 GMT 12
Wouldn't it be cool to see moulded bodies back on the track, like the old days?
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Post by hienekenno1 on May 19, 2019 8:56:42 GMT 12
Yep more cars like the Brian Jeson 6a camaro would be cool,don't really want to see nz saloons go the late model way,they all look the same.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 9:03:47 GMT 12
Totally agree.
I've got some pics, but I'm not sure how to post them. My bad.
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Post by 00crewchief00 on May 19, 2019 12:37:02 GMT 12
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aws
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Post by aws on May 21, 2019 13:07:43 GMT 12
Flat bodies function better then the molded bodies. They don't cost as much to make, produce or replace as molded bodies.
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Post by Higgins on May 21, 2019 18:53:19 GMT 12
Flat bodies function better then the molded bodies. They don't cost as much to make, produce or replace as molded bodies. Don't look as good though. |
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Post by orapiuwharf on May 21, 2019 20:19:29 GMT 12
Modern bodies look great. Just like the naked stockcars. Change is good.
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Post by nakifans on May 22, 2019 5:42:07 GMT 12
I don't think the modern flat panels are the problem, if they have a bright paint scheme that enhances the body, e.g. 24A 63A, they then stand out.
Due to the shear size of the bodies, it is too easy to have a paint scheme that doesn't do justice to the car.
With the cost of motors, suspension etc the extra cost of a flash paint scheme gets put on the back burner. Total body wrap reputed to be in the $6k region which buys a lots of spare parts.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 8:46:50 GMT 12
Problem with these freezer panel bodies of today, they can't be identified by the general public. Four holes in a rectangle on the arse does not make it a Corvette.
To be honest they look more like a ute with a ramp on the front..
As for naked stockcars...yuck
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Post by nakifans on May 22, 2019 11:43:32 GMT 12
Problem with these freezer panel bodies of today, they can't be identified by the general public. Four holes in a rectangle on the arse does not make it a Corvette. To be honest they look more like a ute with a ramp on the front.. As for naked stockcars...yuck To be honest it has been years since they represented the looks of the body they are reputed to be, C6 Corvette etc. When the Hypermac first came out, body panels were debated at length vs actual model, but SNZ let it go so hence all others followed doing the flat panel. Modifieds , or some of them have had body's fitted that you can say, Ford Anglia, Ford Pop etc. I believe there is bigger issues in the super saloon grade than panels, an all Ali block interchangeable with sprint cars would be a start to keep costs down instead of iron block from the archives. Hopefully Brian Jesen with the 6A saloon will make fans appreciate how attractive a saloon can look with some thought put into the design of the body work. |
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Post by mick13b on May 22, 2019 13:00:31 GMT 12
Super Saloons are not the Saloon class anymore guys. They don't have to resemble a road car anymore as does a Saloon. This has been the case for some years now and is quite clear in the rule book. I like the look of many of the road car looking saloons myself but as a competitor I can tell you it is much easier and cheaper to maintain a SS body.
Nakifans is correct in that there are many issues, in my opinion, that need to be addressed in this class. Allowing aluminium blocks would be one, allowing an engine set back the same as Australia and America would be another. Super Saloons are one of the premiere classes in speedway yet still have to run ridiculously heavy steel wheels. If the class ran aluminium wheels, these can be bought, sold and traded with the sprintcar set.
The real problem as I see it the tail wags the dog, the competitor makes the rules, so as is human nature they tend to vote in their own interest. If promoters only were voting on the setback rule for example it would have past years ago as everyone knows it's cheaper to build a car with the transmission on the motor versus a mid mount setup.
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Post by woodart on May 25, 2019 15:23:26 GMT 12
Super Saloons are not the Saloon class anymore guys. allowing an engine set back the same as Australia and America would be another. promoters only were voting on the setback rule for example it would have past years ago as everyone knows it's cheaper to build a car with the transmission on the motor versus a mid mount setup. .................................. the problem I see with super saloons going to a setback engine ,means that old super frames wont be a cheap way of getting a competitive saloon. right now, both saloons/super saloons and stocks/superstocks, midgets, minisprints all benefit from having chassis that can be onsold ,or changed easily from one class to the other. something that has held supermodifieds back, there frame rules being different to sprint cars. this is important for the sport as a whole, not something to change without some long term goals and strategy. |
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Post by Go Slideways on May 25, 2019 17:14:29 GMT 12
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Post by hdr on May 28, 2019 16:23:57 GMT 12
I don't think the modern flat panels are the problem, if they have a bright paint scheme that enhances the body, e.g. 24A 63A, they then stand out. Due to the shear size of the bodies, it is too easy to have a paint scheme that doesn't do justice to the car. With the cost of motors, suspension etc the extra cost of a flash paint scheme gets put on the back burner. Total body wrap reputed to be in the $6k region which buys a lots of spare parts. 6k for a full wrap, gee whoever is paying that much send them to me, ill to them a demon deal & still make a sh1tload of $$$ haha. |
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Post by sportnut on Jun 10, 2019 17:32:34 GMT 12
I don't think the modern flat panels are the problem, if they have a bright paint scheme that enhances the body, e.g. 24A 63A, they then stand out. Due to the shear size of the bodies, it is too easy to have a paint scheme that doesn't do justice to the car. With the cost of motors, suspension etc the extra cost of a flash paint scheme gets put on the back burner. Total body wrap reputed to be in the $6k region which buys a lots of spare parts. I think 24a car and the 63a car also look better because the run a round roof instead of the american style flat roof. As for the wrap they are normally around the 2k mark for a Super |
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aws
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Post by aws on Jun 10, 2019 19:31:00 GMT 12
The use of chrome etc will pump the price up of a wrap but it still won't be 6k. It will be cheaper to wrap flat panels than curved panels.
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Post by nakifans on Jun 12, 2019 8:52:25 GMT 12
I don't think the modern flat panels are the problem, if they have a bright paint scheme that enhances the body, e.g. 24A 63A, they then stand out. Due to the shear size of the bodies, it is too easy to have a paint scheme that doesn't do justice to the car. With the cost of motors, suspension etc the extra cost of a flash paint scheme gets put on the back burner. Total body wrap reputed to be in the $6k region which buys a lots of spare parts. I think 24a car and the 63a car also look better because the run a round roof instead of the american style flat roof. As for the wrap they are normally around the 2k mark for a Super If the wrap includes the sign writing for $2k that is quite a bit cheaper than just getting sign writing done on a painted surface on a Hypermac. |
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Post by theycallmewade on Jun 15, 2019 10:13:27 GMT 12
Super Saloons are not the Saloon class anymore guys. allowing an engine set back the same as Australia and America would be another. promoters only were voting on the setback rule for example it would have past years ago as everyone knows it's cheaper to build a car with the transmission on the motor versus a mid mount setup. .................................. the problem I see with super saloons going to a setback engine ,means that old super frames wont be a cheap way of getting a competitive saloon. right now, both saloons/super saloons and stocks/superstocks, midgets, minisprints all benefit from having chassis that can be onsold ,or changed easily from one class to the other. something that has held supermodifieds back, there frame rules being different to sprint cars. this is important for the sport as a whole, not something to change without some long term goals and strategy. I don't really see this as an issue. I agree with Mick, and body shape is a bit of a red herring What we are actually experiencing in the saloon classes is a spending issue, even with the 'lower cost' saloon class. To gain speed and faster lap times we have to work around the engine set back and wheel weight rules. This has become a horsepower, shocks, mid mount box (and other expensive stuff) race. The current rule on engine set back leaves the block between the two front suspension towers making it impossible to brace the chassis properly here. The chassis are weak (in both classes) in this location, and decent smack in the front can do a lot of damage (cost) to these cars. This was the original motivation for seeking a change in the set back rule, but it would come with handling and performance increases to move the sport forward, which is not a bad thing. I know with my chassis, it would be a simple matter of moving the engine mounts back - there is enough room in these cars to do this simply, and I suspect it would be the same in a lot of saloon cars as well. The key thing is the chassis and engine set back rules should be the same for both classes to ensure the continued 'trickle down' of chassis (if that actually happens) or more importantly the ability to step up to the premiere class without needing to replace a chassis. Restrictions on wheels, shocks, engines, fuel and body style could then still separate and control the classes, but the handling characteristics and 'things to learn' would be similar. There is already a problem with the cage rules between Supers and Saloons that means half cage super saloon chassis are not legal in the saloon class, so no future for those chassis already! Both classes would benefit from taking a global view to getting the important things right and the same, so they are not dominated by spending on things that help overcome silly chassis and wheel weight rules. |
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Post by woodart on Jun 17, 2019 8:20:00 GMT 12
fair comments wade. I dont have a problem with the engine setback if it is in both saloon classes.
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