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Post by go29 on Jun 10, 2019 16:13:38 GMT 12
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Post by bustersno1fan on Jun 10, 2019 18:52:16 GMT 12
How come the rotation for Superstocks isn't up for discussion? Thats bloody ridiculous, Baypark, Gisborne, Kihikihi don't get a go?
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Post by go29 on Jun 10, 2019 18:54:02 GMT 12
I'm not totally sure but I guess they dont meet the requirements in terms of registered cars?
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9c
New Member
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Post by 9c on Jun 10, 2019 19:21:36 GMT 12
WTF No NZ Titles at Riverside Raceway? What the hell is going on in Invercargill? And I can't believe the idiots at Baypark are allowed the NZ Supers again after they destroyed the running of last seasons title! I really despair for the future off our sport. When will we realise that certain tracks don't suit certain classes. Case in point Superstocks at Palmy and Super Saloons at Cromwell.
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9c
New Member
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Post by 9c on Jun 10, 2019 19:24:03 GMT 12
Sorry I should clarify that the 2 cases I mentioned are the right class in the right location.
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Post by The Observer on Jun 10, 2019 20:13:21 GMT 12
What I find interesting is the remit suggesting you must run a class at least 6 times to be eligible to host a NZ title.
Up from 3.
Wonder if any analysis of licensing has been done, and how many tracks would fall out of rotation as a result of this?
Be interesting to hear a rational for this one. From the outside it looks like some bigger clubs simply trying to keep their glamour classes to themselves?
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Post by percy on Jun 10, 2019 20:41:00 GMT 12
How come the rotation for Superstocks isn't up for discussion? Thats bloody ridiculous, Baypark, Gisborne, Kihikihi don't get a go? Whilst the eligibility criteria is quite extensive there are just two relevant aspects for NZ Titles and Grand Prix M4-2-3 Have run the class concerned:- (i) three times in the season prior to the title (ii) three times prior to the title, in the season of the title and the eligibility criteria as defined in rule M4-2-5(n) which pertains to minimum contracted competitors (and additional competitors for some classes). It is my understanding that both Baypark and Gisborne were close to making the criteria but didn't quite make it. I don't think Kihikihi had enough registered competitors this past season. Criteria for Island titles is different and both Baypark and Gisborne are scheduled to host a North Island Superstock Island title in the next stanza. |
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Post by percy on Jun 10, 2019 20:49:49 GMT 12
WTF No NZ Titles at Riverside Raceway? What the hell is going on in Invercargill? And I can't believe the idiots at Baypark are allowed the NZ Supers again after they destroyed the running of last seasons title! I really despair for the future off our sport. When will we realise that certain tracks don't suit certain classes. Case in point Superstocks at Palmy and Super Saloons at Cromwell. Riverside is eligible for the NZ Saloons, Streetstocks and Production Saloon titles. They will be allocated a NZ Saloon title in 2024/25. Those three classes are among those with the most eligible tracks so titles don't come around all that often. Riverside must have been close to being Sprintcar eligible. I've only had a quick skim of the remits but none of the approximate 2,500 SNZ competitors has proposed any performance related criteria to deny tracks titles if they perennially stuff them up. I still can't figure out why Sprintcar competitors haven't introduced a minimum track width rule to render Palmerston North ineligible to host the NZ Sprintcars. Our sport sure has some perplexing thinking at times and most competitors have no idea of the power they can wield. |
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Post by percy on Jun 10, 2019 20:53:35 GMT 12
What I find interesting is the remit suggesting you must run a class at least 6 times to be eligible to host a NZ title. Up from 3. Wonder if any analysis of licensing has been done, and how many tracks would fall out of rotation as a result of this? Be interesting to hear a rational for this one. From the outside it looks like some bigger clubs simply trying to keep their glamour classes to themselves? Last time round I recall one of the bike tracks proposing this or something very similar. They want to get other tracks out of the sidecar rotation for titles so they can host them more often. After all it's worked so well for the development of solo's (sarcasm intended). Whilst we aren't privy to the submitter I'll suggest it might be the same submitter as last time it was roundly voted against. |
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Post by The Observer on Jun 10, 2019 20:57:23 GMT 12
Thanks Percy
Re: Sprintcars at PN
What I can’t understand is how the super saloons can put on such a great spectacle that they almost steal the show at teams champs, while there significantly smaller sprintcars seem to struggle.
Are the supersaloon drivers simply that much better than sprintcar drivers when it comes to car control?
Or is it the BK series at different tracks and frequent racing that makes them better?
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Post by percy on Jun 10, 2019 21:03:14 GMT 12
When the International Sprintcar Series swings through Palmy they go ok. It's the big meetings like the NZ title that turn into a demolition derby.
We are yet to see what a full field of modern Super Saloons of variable driver ability would do. Like the International Sprintcar Series, the BK Series tends to attract the best drivers and they do seem to be able to manage (though there have been a couple of good stacks!)
Must also be said there is less risk in running door to door than wheel to wheel and the speeds involved are not comparable.
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Post by hbhornets on Jun 10, 2019 21:49:04 GMT 12
how does the titles past 5 years work?
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Post by 4zfed on Jun 11, 2019 12:32:02 GMT 12
How can they grantee a track will meet all the criteria in 5/6years time?
There could have been major changes at a club or track over that 5 year cycle & numbers are all but gone..
Take Nelson for example how many Superstocks did they have 5yrs ago & how many now?
Then on the other end of the fence you have Gisborne Baypark & Kihikihi having a real influx.
What happens if we get to a tracks turn in 5yrs time they dont have the numbers & also dont run that class enough during the season is there a punishment or do they lose the meeting?
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Post by hbhornets on Jun 11, 2019 15:55:43 GMT 12
How can they grantee a track will meet all the criteria in 5/6years time? There could have been major changes at a club or track over that 5 year cycle & numbers are all but gone.. Take Nelson for example how many Superstocks did they have 5yrs ago & how many now? Then on the other end of the fence you have Gisborne Baypark & Kihikihi having a real influx. What happens if we get to a tracks turn in 5yrs time they dont have the numbers & also dont run that class enough during the season is there a punishment or do they lose the meeting? was hoping for clarification but none was forth coming. so a guess it is. my guess is its a proposal. so at the year 2024 they then comfrim these proposals. which will be needing changing. could be abit more relaxed with the g.p title i think with differant entry requirement. than new zealands and island titles. personally stratford running both g.p and n.i for superstocks the same year has to be a no no. reguardles of there turn. north islands runs a year later or earlier. when did nelson fall out of new zealand superstocks rotation? last season? still quite close to runing it. huntly was out for 5 years and didnt lose there place in the que. |
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Post by beachboy on Jun 11, 2019 18:28:37 GMT 12
How come the rotation for Superstocks isn't up for discussion? Thats bloody ridiculous, Baypark, Gisborne, Kihikihi don't get a go? Whilst the eligibility criteria is quite extensive there are just two relevant aspects for NZ Titles and Grand Prix M4-2-3 Have run the class concerned:- (i) three times in the season prior to the title (ii) three times prior to the title, in the season of the title and the eligibility criteria as defined in rule M4-2-5(n) which pertains to minimum contracted competitors (and additional competitors for some classes). It is my understanding that both Baypark and Gisborne were close to making the criteria but didn't quite make it. I don't think Kihikihi had enough registered competitors this past season. Criteria for Island titles is different and both Baypark and Gisborne are scheduled to host a North Island Superstock Island title in the next stanza. When reading M4-2-3 They are in a way Delorean Rules really They can in no way be Judged on when all but the 2019/2020 prior seasons are in the future and yet to happen. Although I'm told SNZ do have access to a flux capacitor. |
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Post by John W. on Jun 11, 2019 19:26:09 GMT 12
WTF No NZ Titles at Riverside Raceway? What the hell is going on in Invercargill? And I can't believe the idiots at Baypark are allowed the NZ Supers again after they destroyed the running of last seasons title! I really despair for the future off our sport. When will we realise that certain tracks don't suit certain classes. Case in point Superstocks at Palmy and Super Saloons at Cromwell. Riverside is eligible for the NZ Saloons, Streetstocks and Production Saloon titles. They will be allocated a NZ Saloon title in 2024/25. Those three classes are among those with the most eligible tracks so titles don't come around all that often. Riverside must have been close to being Sprintcar eligible. I've only had a quick skim of the remits but none of the approximate 2,500 SNZ competitors has proposed any performance related criteria to deny tracks titles if they perennially stuff them up. I still can't figure out why Sprintcar competitors haven't introduced a minimum track width rule to render Palmerston North ineligible to host the NZ Sprintcars. Our sport sure has some perplexing thinking at times and most competitors have no idea of the power they can wield. Percy - why don't you just be honest and say you dislike Bruce and his tracks...Palmy has 10m wide straights...your beloved WS has 10.8m straights. On the corners there is a bigger difference...16m v 12m. Surely it is more dangerous to go from very wide corners to a narrow straight (16m to 10.8m) that a reasonable tight corner to a narrow straight (12m to 10m). Fact is - different tracks suit different drivers. If you try and start restricting certain size tracks then you start benefiting particular drivers and their own tracks. Maybe we should try and stop Saloons at Baypark so my Waikaraka drivers have more chance (since Baypark is a wide track and benefits those that run quite wide). I would believe there are rules about track dimensions. If a track meets them then they should be able to host a championship. |
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Post by John W. on Jun 11, 2019 19:29:25 GMT 12
Oh- and Percy....Waikaraka has 11m wide straights...maybe we should run the Sprintcars NZ Champs there...the wider track would be better according to your argument...
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Post by percy on Jun 11, 2019 19:54:23 GMT 12
How can they grantee a track will meet all the criteria in 5/6years time? There could have been major changes at a club or track over that 5 year cycle & numbers are all but gone.. Take Nelson for example how many Superstocks did they have 5yrs ago & how many now? Then on the other end of the fence you have Gisborne Baypark & Kihikihi having a real influx. What happens if we get to a tracks turn in 5yrs time they dont have the numbers & also dont run that class enough during the season is there a punishment or do they lose the meeting? This very issue is going to be discussed in general business. A total of 12 tracks hosting allocated titles in season 2019/20 are actually ineligible to host them based on the current criteria (but were eligible when the titles were allocated). The delegates will be asked what they want SNZ to do. I imagine the response will be to let the tracks host the respective titles because trying to re-allocate 12 titles is more hassle than it's worth but you never know, the delegates might want the rule book enforced. |
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Post by percy on Jun 11, 2019 20:13:12 GMT 12
@johnw I quite like Bruce and whilst I'm no fan of Napier Speedway, Waikaraka was formerly the best viewing track in the country prior to the grandstand being condemned and Palmerston North is a great facility. The team down there always looks after me and pretty much every meeting I've attended at Palmy has been enjoyable.
The track width is only part of the story. Kihikihi has narrower straights than Huntly yet Kihikihi races a lot wider than Huntly and is a far superior track for the open wheel classes. Shape and track preparation are both important factors. Some tracks are wide but don't race wide and on the flipside some narrower tracks do race wide.
My observations are based on racing that has historically happened. The two previous editions of NZ titles at Palmerston North were both demolition derbies and the place has a history of less than optimal Sprintcar racing. However, if the competitors want to race their NZ title there and suffer the almost inevitable damage that is their choice.
As you know Waikaraka can't host the NZ Sprintcar title as it doesn't meet the eligibility criteria. When Sprintcars have raced there previously it hasn't featured a top quality field so it's hard to assess how the track works for the class. My observation of racing that has occurred is that Sprintcars struggle to get off the pole at Waikaraka but with a dedicated track and a quality field the class has some potential at Waikaraka Park.
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Post by craige on Jun 11, 2019 21:12:20 GMT 12
How come the rotation for Superstocks isn't up for discussion? Thats bloody ridiculous, Baypark, Gisborne, Kihikihi don't get a go? Whilst the eligibility criteria is quite extensive there are just two relevant aspects for NZ Titles and Grand Prix M4-2-3 Have run the class concerned:- (i) three times in the season prior to the title (ii) three times prior to the title, in the season of the title and the eligibility criteria as defined in rule M4-2-5(n) which pertains to minimum contracted competitors (and additional competitors for some classes). It is my understanding that both Baypark and Gisborne were close to making the criteria but didn't quite make it. I don't think Kihikihi had enough registered competitors this past season. Criteria for Island titles is different and both Baypark and Gisborne are scheduled to host a North Island Superstock Island title in the next stanza. what is the minimum requirement percy requarding numbers in a class ? . talk around down here in invercargill should be around a dozen stockcars this season. |
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