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Post by John W. on Jun 11, 2019 21:45:36 GMT 12
Minim,um competitor numbers are in the rulebook www.speedway.co.nz/asset/downloadasset?id=c260918e-9de6-470e-9955-2a105db071bbM4-2-5 (n) percy - it was tongue in cheek about running NZ Champs for Sprintcars - but only due to class numbers (they are not a contacted class so we have none). Nothing about the track etc prevents this. I am strongly in favour of the big meetings not always held at the #1 tracks. The likes of Kihikihi need big meetings to survive - and show that they can do a good job. Speedway needs grassroot tracks to survive. John |
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Post by percy on Jun 11, 2019 22:37:51 GMT 12
John has posted the link and the table you're after is on page 47 of the rule book
The eligibility criteria differs for each class
I wouldn't get too excited about Riverside hosting the title just yet. Stockcars have a massive number of eligible tracks and the next title allocation won't happen for another five years at which point Riverside will need to be eligible to be added. We're looking at double digit years before Riverside would be hosting a NZ Stockcar Title
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Post by gregobro on Jun 12, 2019 10:10:36 GMT 12
Working out who gets what title for the rotation system is the poison chalice of speedway. WORST JOB EVER! I read Barry Brown's account of working out the first one in a Dirt track magazine a few years ago and it sounds like a complete nightmare and you absolutely cant please everyone. Second on the list of awful speedway jobs must be choosing the winner of Photographer of the Year for the SNZ awards LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 10:48:00 GMT 12
OK I'll open a hornets nest... I don't know why the glamour classes don't get their heads together and try and get the minimum prize money paid for a title increased. While there is more than enough tracks willing to be in the rotation under the current Ts & Cs, which include prize money, could they not let the market decide? We see teams tix go up every year, yet they seemingly still sell so why not the same with this. If a track/s decides not to stay in the rotation cause they object to paying that much to host it, then they come out of the roster. Good for the class? good for the sport?
I don't like this idea of it's their turn to host it so that's where it is.
As a side note to John & Percys tiff, I did wonder at the logic if going to one of NZs best Stockcar tracks to watch Super Saloons, Midgets & Sprintcars, while half an island away the NZ Stockcar Champs were being held at what is one of the best Sprintcar & Super Saloon tracks cause it was "their turn"
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Post by graemeh on Jun 12, 2019 12:11:18 GMT 12
In my opinion, to take things probably a step to far for most, I think SNZ should take control of the major championships and for example run the NZ Superstock Champs at say Palmerston Nth every year. SNZ would pay P/Nth promotion a set fee to hire the track and with the profit from the meeting they would be in a position to make grants to other speedway tracks for improvements and re-development. It would be interesting exercise to calculate profits generated from individual tracks running an event versus Palmerston potential profits. A lot of tracks would max out at 5,000 spectators where as Palmy could potentially get 10,000 through the gate given its location. At $30.00 per head over say a 10 year period the extra profit could be as much as $3million. For other classes, eg Super Saloons and Sprint Cars Baypark may be the preferred venue. Not only could the extra revenue help other tracks but competitors could benefit from greater prizemoney and appearance money based on travel distance. I realise there are many reasons why this will probably never happen, but personally I would have preferred to have spent the last 10 years watching the NZ Champs at Palmy (I live in Auckland) than travel to 10 different tracks through-out NZ and be guaranteed all that a top notch stadium offers. The biggest hurdle is possibly having trust in SNZ or some promotional body to do it right for the benefit of all of Speedway and all members/competitors to agree. I seem to remember Rugby Union going through a faze where the system of individual unions having an equal say at board level was holding the sport back. All constructive criticism welcomed  |
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Post by midway on Jun 12, 2019 13:47:16 GMT 12
While it does have good merit ,the back lash of those who miss out would be intense ,and may boycott paying fees as such ..
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Post by The Observer on Jun 12, 2019 14:52:56 GMT 12
OK I'll open a hornets nest... I don't know why the glamour classes don't get their heads together and try and get the minimum prize money paid for a title increased. While there is more than enough tracks willing to be in the rotation under the current Ts & Cs, which include prize money, could they not let the market decide? We see teams tix go up every year, yet they seemingly still sell so why not the same with this. If a track/s decides not to stay in the rotation cause they object to paying that much to host it, then they come out of the roster. Good for the class? good for the sport? I don't like this idea of it's their turn to host it so that's where it is. As a side note to John & Percys tiff, I did wonder at the logic if going to one of NZs best Stockcar tracks to watch Super Saloons, Midgets & Sprintcars, while half an island away the NZ Stockcar Champs were being held at what is one of the best Sprintcar & Super Saloon tracks cause it was "their turn" Re : Teams Champs Think your speaking out both sides of your mouths On one hand competitors raise minimum prize money On the other side Teams charging more for tickets. Where is the evidence of a correlation between a private promoter raising the prices, and paying more to the drivers? Be great to hear evidence of this altruism from a private promotion |
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Post by mod46c on Jun 12, 2019 15:23:54 GMT 12
In my opinion, to take things probably a step to far for most, I think SNZ should take control of the major championships and for example run the NZ Superstock Champs at say Palmerston Nth every year. SNZ is a governance body with extremely limited operational capability so I can't see how this could ever work. |
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Post by BarryB on Jun 12, 2019 16:01:38 GMT 12
how does the titles past 5 years work? Those titles listed more than 5 years out are just a draft. If everything remained the same in every class and at every track for the next 20 years, as well as all criteria remaining the same, that is where they would all be. But even looking at the changes in the 5 year block up to 2025/26 there were many changes from where things were at in 2015 when the last block was done. As for Gisborne, Baypark and Kihikihi with regards Superstocks, yes, Baypark and Kihikihi were extremely close, but you have to meet all criteria, not just most of it. Kihikihi you're talking about drivers supposedly contracting there next year. They can't, and I'm sure they don't, expect to be in this year's championship block based on expected figures for next year? The 5 year thing, and some tracks becoming ineligible during that period, I don't have too much of a problem with personally. One raised to me recently is that Huntly has been eligible to host the NZ Modified Title for a couple of years, but have had to wait for the next block to be allocated to get into the rotation. There is a push from some to reduce it to three years. Had this of been the case Huntly would of got the NZ Mods earlier than 2021/22, however they'd of lost the NZ Super Saloon Champs they hosted in 2018/19. A lot of others in this thread have added all sorts of ideas as to how it should be done. But in all cases it doesn't currently work as all of the ideas fall outside the current criteria in the Rule Book. The discussion is good though. |
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Post by graemeh on Jun 12, 2019 16:21:54 GMT 12
In my opinion, to take things probably a step to far for most, I think SNZ should take control of the major championships and for example run the NZ Superstock Champs at say Palmerston Nth every year. SNZ is a governance body with extremely limited operational capability so I can't see how this could ever work. Yes I agree, as I pointed out, to work it would need a promotional body/individual that had the trust of all stakeholders. |
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Post by mod46c on Jun 12, 2019 16:27:57 GMT 12
SNZ is a governance body with extremely limited operational capability so I can't see how this could ever work. Yes I agree, as I pointed out, to work it would need a promotional body/individual that had the trust of all stakeholders. Agreed, but I also believe they don't have the capacity to grow this capability without charging the competitors. |
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Post by graemeh on Jun 12, 2019 16:31:14 GMT 12
While it does have good merit ,the back lash of those who miss out would be intense ,and may boycott paying fees as such .. There certainly would be resistance from many quarters. The development fund could favour those next in line to a greater extent. Most clubs probably look at the financial benefits of hosting a major event so they can make improvements. |
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Post by graemeh on Jun 12, 2019 16:51:48 GMT 12
Yes I agree, as I pointed out, to work it would need a promotional body/individual that had the trust of all stakeholders. Agreed, but I also believe they don't have the capacity to grow this capability without charging the competitors. Dont see how there would be any need to charge the competitors, it would be self funding. The Board activities would remain the same. SNZ would only need to appoint a person to organise the event eg Bruce Robertson for Superstocks, Sonja Hickey for Stockcars, whichever of the Flynns organise the Super Saloon series, Jamie handles the Modified event. These individuals can be paid a fee for a one off promotion, their reappointment each year based on success. The board would have some input as to where the profits are dispersed, clubs would have to submit applications for funding of different projects eg 30k for new seating. |
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Post by BarryB on Jun 12, 2019 17:13:51 GMT 12
In my opinion, to take things probably a step to far for most, I think SNZ should take control of the major championships and for example run the NZ Superstock Champs at say Palmerston Nth every year. SNZ would pay P/Nth promotion a set fee to hire the track and with the profit from the meeting they would be in a position to make grants to other speedway tracks for improvements and re-development. It would be interesting exercise to calculate profits generated from individual tracks running an event versus Palmerston potential profits. A lot of tracks would max out at 5,000 spectators where as Palmy could potentially get 10,000 through the gate given its location. At $30.00 per head over say a 10 year period the extra profit could be as much as $3million. For other classes, eg Super Saloons and Sprint Cars Baypark may be the preferred venue. Not only could the extra revenue help other tracks but competitors could benefit from greater prizemoney and appearance money based on travel distance. I realise there are many reasons why this will probably never happen, but personally I would have preferred to have spent the last 10 years watching the NZ Champs at Palmy (I live in Auckland) than travel to 10 different tracks through-out NZ and be guaranteed all that a top notch stadium offers. The biggest hurdle is possibly having trust in SNZ or some promotional body to do it right for the benefit of all of Speedway and all members/competitors to agree. I seem to remember Rugby Union going through a faze where the system of individual unions having an equal say at board level was holding the sport back. All constructive criticism welcomed Running each New Zealand title at a different venue each year does have some financial implications obviously, due to 5,000 people filling one venue while another can hold, and will fill, a 15,000 seater. However, I am one who enjoyed going to a different venue every year as if features different racing each year as a result. It's also good for families and fans as it gives them a chance to get around the country and tie that experience in with a NZ title or two. I mean, other than Tim Savell wants to spend that much time in Palmerston North? It the biggest thing is that it's SNZ's job to foster the sport, not just foster certain championships. And look at how many new Superstocks normally appear in the area of any track hosting that title in the season or two prior to the event. The numbers don't always hold up, but it is getting them built. How long do you think any class at any South Island track would survive if their NZ title was in the North Island every summer? In saying that, the criteria can always be tightened up, but I believe the event should be at a different track every year, even of the number of tracks was to be reduced. Barry B |
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Post by mordecai on Jun 12, 2019 17:21:35 GMT 12
is it time for a nz ministock championship esp as numbers a huge now maybe a 3day championship or have track entry limit on some sort of season points
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Post by BarryB on Jun 12, 2019 18:22:09 GMT 12
is it time for a nz ministock championship esp as numbers a huge now maybe a 3day championship or have track entry limit on some sort of season points
Definitely not. Barry B |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 18:26:22 GMT 12
Re : Teams Champs Think your speaking out both sides of your mouths On one hand competitors raise minimum prize money On the other side Teams charging more for tickets. Where is the evidence of a correlation between a private promoter raising the prices, and paying more to the drivers? Be great to hear evidence of this altruism from a private promotion My comments about teams were about how the promotion tests the market every year with small increases, why don't the competitors do the same in the glamour classes for their champs by raising the minimum prize money needed to host it. I see the minisprints had done it this time around. I know what I'd be doing if I was a promoter in the minisprints rotation if this goes thru, and it would involve a bottle of twink. However 80%of the tracks in the Superstock rotation might decide its worth an extra $4k to stay in that rotation. |
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Post by mordecai on Jun 12, 2019 18:28:13 GMT 12
is it time for a nz ministock championship esp as numbers a huge now maybe a 3day championship or have track entry limit on some sort of season points
Definitely not. Barry B I find mini ministocks are far better than production salons and they have so many numbers of them compared to production salons but yet production salons have a national title |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 18:28:21 GMT 12
is it time for a nz ministock championship esp as numbers a huge now maybe a 3day championship or have track entry limit on some sort of season points
Are u on drugs? |
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Post by mordecai on Jun 12, 2019 18:29:29 GMT 12
is it time for a nz ministock championship esp as numbers a huge now maybe a 3day championship or have track entry limit on some sort of season points
Are u on drugs? Maybe lol |
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