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Post by Geoff public on Nov 24, 2019 21:16:04 GMT 12
I also dont understand... If you want to smoke or vape you have to go outside the gates but if you want to drink as much alcohol as you wish and ruin others nights... your allowed to do that inside. The smoking rules are pretty much the same at every other place. The by-product of smoking is you blow it over everyone around you the by-product of drinking is you have to go pee, most people go away and do this part in the toilet they don't just piss all over others. I had the misfortune to have allocated seating next to the Thirsty Lizards at one 2 night event. Some were okay but a couple of them are alcoholics with activities. The language was that bad I would have gone somewhere else if I'd had kids with me. |
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Post by my2cents on Nov 24, 2019 21:19:59 GMT 12
Interesting discussion around team penalties. Talking to a long time SNZ referee who has done a teams meeting or two.
The referee can only react to an incident they cant preempt to what's going to happen or could have happened.
In Rugby a player purposely takes out (breaks a leg?) of the other teams top player (referee doesn't know it was on purpose). What is the penalty, he gets sent off and possibly a fine handed out by NZRFU after a hearing and watching multiple replays from different angles, the referee doesn't get to take of the offending teams top player.
V8 supercars driver does something similar gets an in race penalty then later in week after reviewing multiple replays from different angles maybe more penalties handed out.
Speedway teams, referee makes in race decision based on what they saw with there own eyes and or spotters if they are lucky then hands out penalty. Then later in week after reviewing multiple videos. Fans then tear referee a new one.
Some on here are suggesting that Teams are purposely cheating with illegal hit, perhaps maybe fans should tear the team and or driver a new one, then drivers/teams are more likely to not cheat.
I dont propose that I have all the answers or any of the answers but think it could be a good discussion point
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Post by percy on Nov 24, 2019 22:12:11 GMT 12
As always with teams racing a lot to talk about. It would be easier to talk about which rules weren't broken at some point during the night rather than those that were but that's a talking point in itself.
Seems the Sneddon/Ashby incident is one people want to talk about so I'll offer my thoughts. I think highrevs has a fairly creative interpretation of what happened but that notwithstanding let's take a look at the sanction. I note the fixed penalties regime does not apply to teams racing but had this happened in an individual race it would have been a 22-day suspension and $100 fine. So it's clear this is a serious incident.
Whether the same penalty should apply to teams racing is an interesting point. Possible penalties that can be applied in a teams race are as follows:
R12-4-74 The penalties listed below are at the discretion of the Referee.
(a) a fine of between $50 and $1000 can be issued for each and every breach of the rules
(b) Exclusion during the race.
(c) Relegation of finishing positions.
(d) Exclusion from the results of the race.
(e) Exclusion from the remainder of the event.
(f) Suspension for up to 15 days (Referee) or 22 days (Senior Referee), starting from the date of the offence.
(g) Reporting a competitor within seven days of the date of the offence to the Board, for possible further penalty.
(h) In a worst case scenario, the entire team can be excluded.
The referee appeared to apply b). Personally, I'd be looking at e) or the sections after.
I find it hard to reconcile the fixed penalty for this offence in individual racing with what appears to be a rather lenient penalty applied for this offence in teams racing.
I don't agree with some suggestions that another team car should be taken off. That penalty may have fitted this crime (depending on your opinion) but to apply such a penalty to all similar circumstances would not be fit for purpose. Think of the difference in applying this to a lap 1 incident vs a lap 11 incident when a teams race is often largely decided. I also don't believe this was worthy of a team disqualification as the incident did not materially affect the race outcome.
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Post by graemeh on Nov 24, 2019 22:15:23 GMT 12
Everyones making a big deal about Sneddon rolling Horse , making it look like Sneddon purposly drove the wrong way around the track and rolled Horse . Incorrect . They were both involved in a hit , rather than button off the gas Sneddon kept his foot flat and both cars spun around in a circle resulting in Horse going over . Yes agree Sneddon was wrong and should of buttoned off but we see it with lots of cars in the contact class that will spin around on the track if they are tangled . Some of you like to make it looks like something it was not. Like the visiting comentator last nite spouting off about it saying it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car , maybe so but that is not what happened. Everyone moaning and whinging about it , the only one who isnt is Horse . I agree, the intent of the rule is to stop cars deemed to be in a non-attacking position driving in the opposite direction and making contact with another car, in this case it started out right, continued in one fluid motion without breaking contact and ended up the way it did, all good in my opinion. |
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Post by BarryB on Nov 25, 2019 1:02:27 GMT 12
BarryB Didn't see to many attacking in the wrong direction apart from when Horse got rolled. Did see the 85K do a sneaky slip to the sanctuary on the infield at the start of the semi final against the Busters which was a bit poor. Great night's entertainment otherwise. Just because the other incident was not penalised doesn't mean it was deemed legal. It may merely of been unseen. It certainly wasn't as bad as the Benji Horse Bash. Barry B |
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Post by BarryB on Nov 25, 2019 1:15:57 GMT 12
The referees are busy. Robbie Maybe 15 day stand down. Blair Ashton a well deserved 15 day stand down. The biggest hits in the 4 car 4 lap race came AFTER the chequered flag. Horse got rolled by Benji Sneddon going completely against the flow of traffic. Horse out. Sneddon removed from race but 2k's still won. I think a few of the drivers need to reread the Code of Ethics. Several cars hit in non attacking positions. Attacks after the chequered flag. Cars attacking against the flow of traffic. Percy will have the rule book out!!! Barry B Can I ask what the stand downs were for? The stand downs were for a very cynical attack, Waikato vs Auckland, after the chequered flag, followed by the other Auckland car attacking the Waikato can immediately afterwards. |
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Post by BarryB on Nov 25, 2019 1:36:13 GMT 12
Everyones making a big deal about Sneddon rolling Horse , making it look like Sneddon purposly drove the wrong way around the track and rolled Horse . Incorrect . They were both involved in a hit , rather than button off the gas Sneddon kept his foot flat and both cars spun around in a circle resulting in Horse going over . Yes agree Sneddon was wrong and should of buttoned off but we see it with lots of cars in the contact class that will spin around on the track if they are tangled . Some of you like to make it looks like something it was not. Like the visiting comentator last nite spouting off about it saying it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car , maybe so but that is not what happened. Everyone moaning and whinging about it , the only one who isnt is Horse . You're wrong, On every point you've made. I don't believe one person has said Benji "purposely" drove the wrong way around the track to roll Horse. The simple fact though, is that that's exactly what he did, and purpose doesn't come into it when assessing any breach of the rule. It's a factual based ruling, surely? Most people are only using the incident as an example,e The "visiting commentator spouting off" was correct. He said it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car. 100% Correct. "But that is not what happened" you say? Oh yes it is.....just because he didn't do it on purpose doesn't mean he didn't do it. Lack of intent is not a defence. And it doesn't matter is Horse is morning and whinging or not. Rules are rules, a rule was breached, and it's not up to Horse over which rules are to be enforced at any given moment. That's the referees job. Barry B |
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Post by sidfail on Nov 25, 2019 5:18:54 GMT 12
Everyones making a big deal about Sneddon rolling Horse , making it look like Sneddon purposly drove the wrong way around the track and rolled Horse . Incorrect . They were both involved in a hit , rather than button off the gas Sneddon kept his foot flat and both cars spun around in a circle resulting in Horse going over . Yes agree Sneddon was wrong and should of buttoned off but we see it with lots of cars in the contact class that will spin around on the track if they are tangled . Some of you like to make it looks like something it was not. Like the visiting comentator last nite spouting off about it saying it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car , maybe so but that is not what happened. Everyone moaning and whinging about it , the only one who isnt is Horse . I think you need to go back and rewatch that race. It appears to be attacking a non attacking car and driving against the flow of traffic. Definitely looked to be on purpose too. |
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Post by hienekenno1 on Nov 25, 2019 6:10:56 GMT 12
Right or wrong with all these hits,all I know its awesome to watch!When your a driver at the heat of the moment I don't think your thinking about a rule should I do that or not,as a spectator it was a awesome night well done Huntly speedway and well done to the Kihikihi Kings.
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Post by maninstand on Nov 25, 2019 7:14:06 GMT 12
Well done Huntly on a great event. It probably showed that outside of the big one at palmy that these events need to be one night only and pre team champs to draw crowds and keep teams wanting to come. It's fresh and worked well along side a massive field of top stockcars.
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Post by keith655 on Nov 25, 2019 7:29:35 GMT 12
Kings vs Panthers final
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 8:24:43 GMT 12
Everyones making a big deal about Sneddon rolling Horse , making it look like Sneddon purposly drove the wrong way around the track and rolled Horse . Incorrect . They were both involved in a hit , rather than button off the gas Sneddon kept his foot flat and both cars spun around in a circle resulting in Horse going over . Yes agree Sneddon was wrong and should of buttoned off but we see it with lots of cars in the contact class that will spin around on the track if they are tangled . Some of you like to make it looks like something it was not. Like the visiting comentator last nite spouting off about it saying it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car , maybe so but that is not what happened. Everyone moaning and whinging about it , the only one who isnt is Horse . You're wrong, On every point you've made. I don't believe one person has said Benji "purposely" drove the wrong way around the track to roll Horse. The simple fact though, is that that's exactly what he did, and purpose doesn't come into it when assessing any breach of the rule. It's a factual based ruling, surely? Most people are only using the incident as an example,e The "visiting commentator spouting off" was correct. He said it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car. 100% Correct. "But that is not what happened" you say? Oh yes it is.....just because he didn't do it on purpose doesn't mean he didn't do it. Lack of intent is not a defence. And it doesn't matter is Horse is morning and whinging or not. Rules are rules, a rule was breached, and it's not up to Horse over which rules are to be enforced at any given moment. That's the referees job. Barry B B S . It was the result of a hit between 2 cars , it was due to the fact that Sneddon kept his foot down that the cars spun around resulting in Horse going over. There is no way Sneddon drove up the track in the opposite direction and attacked Horse as everyone is trying to make out. The visiting commentator may have been correct about the rules but that is not what happened. Maybe commentators should stick to just commentating and not try to be refrees. |
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Post by hienekenno1 on Nov 25, 2019 8:50:06 GMT 12
Agree with you Highrevz,its teams racing,they are there to hit each other legal or not,let speedway nz sort out the rules,we the spectators should just sit back and enjoy,i certainly did.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:14:41 GMT 12
Agree with you Highrevz,its teams racing,they are there to hit each other legal or not,let speedway nz sort out the rules,we the spectators should just sit back and enjoy,i certainly did. Exactly my thoughts . |
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Post by mordecai on Nov 25, 2019 10:05:23 GMT 12
Everyones making a big deal about Sneddon rolling Horse , making it look like Sneddon purposly drove the wrong way around the track and rolled Horse . Incorrect . They were both involved in a hit , rather than button off the gas Sneddon kept his foot flat and both cars spun around in a circle resulting in Horse going over . Yes agree Sneddon was wrong and should of buttoned off but we see it with lots of cars in the contact class that will spin around on the track if they are tangled . Some of you like to make it looks like something it was not. Like the visiting comentator last nite spouting off about it saying it is illegal to drive against the traffic and roll another car , maybe so but that is not what happened. Everyone moaning and whinging about it , the only one who isnt is Horse . I agree, the intent of the rule is to stop cars deemed to be in a non-attacking position driving in the opposite direction and making contact with another car, in this case it started out right, continued in one fluid motion without breaking contact and ended up the way it did, all good in my opinion. I remember seeing cars hooked together doing 360 turns trying to un hook was that situation similar or different |
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Post by nakifans on Nov 25, 2019 10:42:34 GMT 12
on you tube Blake's Speedway has a video [31 min] of all sat nights teams racing at Huntly.
The incident appears technically wrong but not a blatant wrong , racing incident maybe.
85S rolling 38M appears to occur just at the instant the lights went orange, racing to the green lights not a deliberate foul attack after the flag. Maybe the lights operator and flag man need to co ordinate better.
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Post by jscphotoqraphy on Nov 25, 2019 11:02:56 GMT 12
(85S rolling 38M appears to occur just at the instant the lights went orange). I think you will find it's the 37s that rolled Ross ashby
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joe69
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Post by joe69 on Nov 25, 2019 15:42:20 GMT 12
Talking to Horse after the racing he wasn't phased about either roll he was just smiling from ear to ear and rapt to be teams racing again. He did say he didn't see the first chequered flag which is why he was still up it otherwise he would have pulled off the track. Great to see 38m teams racing again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 15:48:05 GMT 12
I agree, the intent of the rule is to stop cars deemed to be in a non-attacking position driving in the opposite direction and making contact with another car, in this case it started out right, continued in one fluid motion without breaking contact and ended up the way it did, all good in my opinion. I remember seeing cars hooked together doing 360 turns trying to un hook was that situation similar or different Virtually the same thing that happened.. Could of been avoided if Sneddon had taken his foot off the gas. |
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Post by penman on Nov 26, 2019 12:07:03 GMT 12
I remember seeing cars hooked together doing 360 turns trying to un hook was that situation similar or different Virtually the same thing that happened.. Could of been avoided if Sneddon had taken his foot off the gas. Which he ABSOLUTELY should have done. Have just seen it online, and I can't find any justification for it. He MUST have know he was facing the wrong way, yet stayed with his right foot firmly planted and kept at it. No indication the cars were hooked up at all and I can't see anything to mitigate his actions. Wrong, wrong, wrong! |
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