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Post by penman on Jan 13, 2010 11:27:39 GMT 12
After reading a recent post in regards to the team numbers for Palmerston North, I was curious as to what others thoughts of the costs of Superstocks and whether they are pricing themselves out of Teams Racing.
Got an interesting first up reply, but would be keen on seeing who else has what else to say.
See below:
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Post by penman on Jan 13, 2010 11:29:00 GMT 12
My original staement: Hate to raise a hoary old chestnut, but are Superstocks effectively putting themselves out of teams racing reach?
Look at the costs involved...then look at the speeds. The damage - and then the cost of - is extraordinary.
'Flag' racing - ie, the 240s and the NZ champs - are considerably less targeted at damage and the aim of stopping cars from finishng (well, until the later races when alliances are formed).
From 4ZFED: Its an interesting point there penman-but my answer to that is no. I dont think they are putting themselves out of teams racings reach simply because the guys with the newest and or most expensive hotrods are generally the 1s that are teams racers.
To name a few Shane Penn, Malcolm Ngatai, Wayne Hemi, Mark Osborne, Scott Hewson, Kyle Fraser, Dale Ewers, Brendon Higgins etc the list goes on and another very interesting point is that 1nz,2nz & 3nz are all very keen teams racers. So we dont have a flag racing group and a teams group so to speak.
My opinion and im sure alot agree that the biggest problem is guys contracting to other clubs for better racing week in week out, now i dont have a prob with that but i think the only way this is guna work in regards to teams is if the likes of Palmy put together 3 teams and Rotorua ressurect the Rookies. Surely if these guys teams raced @ there old clubs they can for there new clubs?
Hell look as recently as 05/06 the Mustangs took the title out even with a stockcar in the team so you dont have to be in the clubs top team to have a good chance @ winning it.
So if we are starting to loose teams the Palmy promotion is guna have to start looking @ a 3rd team which im sure wouldnt be any slouches
My reply: Fed, agree with you to a point, for sure.
Those real teams racers that you mention are the backbone of the sport and should be applauded for taking the sport to where it is.
However, they only make up one component of the teams. There's also the rest of the team to put together. So, if (for example) Auckland has one or two great superstocks and drivers but can't get three more to fill the spots, Auckland isn't going to get a team together. There may be three other cars/drivers capable of filling those spots, but choose not to because of the amount of time, money, effort, etc that has gone into their cars and they don't want to risk the amount of money it may take to repair them.
There may be an argument that drivers with that mindset need to go to Super Saloons, Modifieds or Sprinters, etc, but they are still non-contact classes (well, in most cases), so greatly limits the opportunities to get past, whereas Super Stocks can force their way past without doing huge amounts of damage to each other, while still racing for the flag.
Was just interested in people's opinions.
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Post by 4zfed on Jan 13, 2010 11:38:33 GMT 12
Sum very valid points there Penman-my other thort is y cant the likes of auckland, wanganui etc have ring ins surely once tracks like rotorua have picked there squad they must have others that are keen and miss out so y not open it up to them? I mean look @ super 14 for example all teams have ring ins etc fingers X for 12 teams anyway
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Post by stanly graham on Jan 13, 2010 11:42:51 GMT 12
Do the palmy promotion need to pay more appearance money to the drivers? I'm sure they could afford to.Maybe its not all about money?.With the speeds of these machines is the risk of injury to great for some drivers?
A broken body is harder to fix than a broken car.
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Post by penman on Jan 13, 2010 11:43:56 GMT 12
So, opening it up to 'invitation' teams or similar, so the combos that don't get picked in their region's team get to race for another track under some type of dispensation rule.
Alternatively, it would be possible to form some pretty impressive All Star or Promotor's Selection teams from those drivers.
However, those guys may still choose not to race because of my origianl comment (which may be the reason they haven't been selected in the first place).
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Post by penman on Jan 13, 2010 11:46:01 GMT 12
There's that too Stanly G.
Cars and engines have come a LONG way, which means speeds are far higher, hits are far harder and injury is more likely.
The crowds love it...hell, I love it...and I'm sure the drivers love it too. Unless they're needing the top chopped off the roll cage to get them out before being bundled into an ambulance. Not sure they love it so much then.
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Post by mike004 on Jan 13, 2010 11:52:43 GMT 12
Spoke to a guy who crews on a top superstock (teams raced last year) who said if they teams raced it meant taking all the expensive bits that can break off the car and put on the cheaper bits. Sounds like they cant be bothered doing that this year, so prob wont teams race.  |
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Post by rageykiwi on Jan 13, 2010 12:06:07 GMT 12
Thanks heavens this is being brought up,the cost, funding,etc is getting up there,
Living costs increase, road levies, fuel,jobs become gold,
Events like the 240s & NZ fields are up big time
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Post by penman on Jan 13, 2010 12:25:30 GMT 12
Teams entries are down, 240s and NZ champs are up.
Does that indicate there might be some foundation to this?
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Post by gregobro on Jan 13, 2010 13:01:30 GMT 12
Sum very valid points there Penman-my other thort is y cant the likes of auckland, wanganui etc have ring ins surely once tracks like rotorua have picked there squad they must have others that are keen and miss out so y not open it up to them? I mean look @ super 14 for example all teams have ring ins etc fingers X for 12 teams anyway I few years ago there was a whole lot of ring-ins and to be honest the meeting that year really lacked atmosphere (cant remember exact year sorry) - I guess you would easily get 12 teams but the appeal of your home track cars is what gets us all there in the first place. |
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Post by Jamo on Jan 13, 2010 13:03:16 GMT 12
can't speak for Palmy but I have said for years that I don't think Auckland should be running a teams event, simply can't afford it as we can't fit 20,000-30,000 people in the place like Palmy.
Prizemoney paid out on this one event would fund over 10 premier events over a season in Auckland.... doesn't stack up in a risk management equation.
Hopefully one day common sense will prevail and the event will be dropped off the Akl calendar.
As compensation to the Superstock class they could run an annual $20k superstock event that would surely attract a top class field every year and cost less than 1/3 of the money!
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Post by fearless on Jan 13, 2010 14:37:44 GMT 12
Agree with above. They should drop the AK teams aand run a 20k invation superstock event with a different format than was is normally run ie UK style.
Auckland has lost its atmosphere compaired with Palmy teams and it would be 1 less teams race for thses guys in a ever crowded season.
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Post by deno Tank 9c on Jan 13, 2010 14:56:54 GMT 12
I don't understand the no ring ins rule ! Don't the GB team all come from different tracks ? . I don't thtink Superstocks will ever Price them selves out as long as we have Teams meetings
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Post by Ugmo on Jan 13, 2010 15:00:59 GMT 12
I don't understand the no ring ins rule ! Don't the GB team all come from different tracks ? . I don't thtink Superstocks will ever Price them selves out as long as we have Teams meetings They are Team GB, thats team Great Britain. So as long as they come from a track in Great Britain they will then qualify to be part of the team without being a ring in. |
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Post by rick-taylor on Jan 13, 2010 15:03:26 GMT 12
can't speak for Palmy but I have said for years that I don't think Auckland should be running a teams event, simply can't afford it as we can't fit 20,000-30,000 people in the place like Palmy. Prizemoney paid out on this one event would fund over 10 premier events over a season in Auckland.... I guess at the end of the day you have to ask- does the meeting make money. If the answer is no, then you are right - alternatives should be looked at. If it makes a profit for the club or promoter then why not have this event, plus the extra premiere events you mention. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money - and if you put on a good show then fans will pay to see it. Ultimately the big issue facing superstocks is the fact that several clubs are attracting the mass of competitors, and other tracks are struggling for numbers. Is there an easy answer to fix that ? Apart from money |
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Post by deno Tank 9c on Jan 13, 2010 15:33:52 GMT 12
So duz that mean we can have Team Sth Island and as long as you race in the sth island you Qualify for that team ?
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Post by HIGHWAY45 on Jan 13, 2010 15:50:41 GMT 12
Ring ins is always going to be a part of it. I, like many others, would find it great if it wasnt but liek mentioned with a bulk of superstocks contracting to 2-3 tracks (in both islands) then this is going to keep happening. Guildford has contracted to Stratford this season, as he wants to teams race. Wanganui wont have enough cars by the sounds of it so he has actively done something about it and good on him. Hes running in the 240s and NZs with a 'S' on the car, so......is he a ring in?  The GB thing was queried and talked about lots when it come about but come meeting time last year they were very well supported by a majority of the crowd. A NZ vs GB teams race would be awesome to see....NZ team voted for and picked via votes. Time is a constraint there however as they are visitors to NZ. As mentioned a lot of driver reduce the use of the 'flash bits' come teams and replace with more standard parts. This includes wings, bodies, rims and far more parts that are not visual to the spectators eyes - hence keeping teams racing for that particular car/team more sustainable and price conscious. Some crews will even change a whole engine and running gear for this meeting (those that have this luxury of course) |
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Post by MENTL1 on Jan 13, 2010 16:05:14 GMT 12
can't speak for Palmy but I have said for years that I don't think Auckland should be running a teams event, simply can't afford it as we can't fit 20,000-30,000 people in the place like Palmy. Prizemoney paid out on this one event would fund over 10 premier events over a season in Auckland.... doesn't stack up in a risk management equation. Hopefully one day common sense will prevail and the event will be dropped off the Akl calendar. As compensation to the Superstock class they could run an annual $20k superstock event that would surely attract a top class field every year and cost less than 1/3 of the money! Thats just silly!! If there wasnt the teams nats in auckland every year them I would never end up going to the track at all!!! and nether would the other 5 I go with!! no dought alot more wouldnt ether. If it draws the crowds have it! |
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Post by Jamo on Jan 13, 2010 16:19:52 GMT 12
can't speak for Palmy but I have said for years that I don't think Auckland should be running a teams event, simply can't afford it as we can't fit 20,000-30,000 people in the place like Palmy. Prizemoney paid out on this one event would fund over 10 premier events over a season in Auckland.... doesn't stack up in a risk management equation. Hopefully one day common sense will prevail and the event will be dropped off the Akl calendar. As compensation to the Superstock class they could run an annual $20k superstock event that would surely attract a top class field every year and cost less than 1/3 of the money! Thats just silly!! If there wasnt the teams nats in auckland every year them I would never end up going to the track at all!!! and nether would the other 5 I go with!! no dought alot more wouldnt ether. If it draws the crowds have it! You be willing to pay about $40-$50 per night for a ticket? Thats what really needs to be charged to make it worth the risk. Would need to be a sell out at these prices to! Prizepool alone to run this is over $60k! Like I said Auckland simply can't afford it!! |
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Post by LRT on Jan 13, 2010 17:26:29 GMT 12
can't speak for Palmy but I have said for years that I don't think Auckland should be running a teams event, simply can't afford it as we can't fit 20,000-30,000 people in the place like Palmy. Prizemoney paid out on this one event would fund over 10 premier events over a season in Auckland.... I guess at the end of the day you have to ask- does the meeting make money. If the answer is no, then you are right - alternatives should be looked at. If it makes a profit for the club or promoter then why not have this event, plus the extra premiere events you mention. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money - and if you put on a good show then fans will pay to see it. Ultimately the big issue facing superstocks is the fact that several clubs are attracting the mass of competitors, and other tracks are struggling for numbers. Is there an easy answer to fix that ? Apart from money Good point Rick, and I don't have an answer. I am suprised however that KK numbers are not more than they are, with the ability to race where ever you want on a Saturday night. |
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