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Post by youngone on Feb 7, 2011 18:47:28 GMT 12
With all the sh!t that is going down with;
"conspiracy theories",
"Hemi allowed to attack under red",
"Promoters didn't want Nelson in the final"
etc etc
Wouldn't you expect that somewhere would come a offical statement (and I mean Speedway New Zealand here) to answer the fans and I presume many of the drivers questions?
Or am I again expecting too much?
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Post by penman on Feb 7, 2011 19:06:59 GMT 12
With all the sh!t that is going down with; "conspiracy theories", "Hemi allowed to attack under red", "Promoters didn't want Nelson in the final" etc etc Wouldn't you expect that somewhere would come a fu$#en offical statement (and I mean Speedway New Zealand here) to answer the fans and I presume many of the drivers questions? Or am I again expecting too much? No, I wouldn't expect that at all actually. Does the NZRFU front with a statement when a team gets beaten in the Super 15 from a controversial ref's call? |
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Post by export gold on Feb 7, 2011 19:08:59 GMT 12
Cant see them doing that any time soon , i think it would be a great idea though and would give us all a better understanding ..
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Post by knowtoomuch on Feb 7, 2011 19:14:25 GMT 12
Are you expecting too much? The question should be why are you expecting anything at all. The people who post on MacGors do not constitute the whole world of Speedway fans. There were approximately 15000 fans at the Team Champs and you cannot expect anyone to believe that they all are posting on here and crying 'conspiracy theories' or 'the tigers were robbed' etc. Most of us although disappointed not to see a Panthers and Tigers showdown were highly entertained and pleased with the standard of the racing that we did see. Stratford did themselves proud as did all the other teams and as far as I can see most of the drivers are philosophical about referees decisions. Most of them that I have ever spoken to realise that they are taking part in a sport and in sport sometimes decisions do not go your way.
As far as I can see Speedway NZ doesn't need to issue an 'official statement' to placate a few disgruntled and disappointed fans who don't like to accept that sometimes referees decisions are not what you want them to be.
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Post by youngone on Feb 7, 2011 19:19:46 GMT 12
Are you expecting too much? The question should be why are you expecting anything at all. The people who post on MacGors do not constitute the whole world of Speedway fans. There were approximately 15000 fans at the Team Champs and you cannot expect anyone to believe that they all are posting on here and crying 'conspiracy theories' or 'the tigers were robbed' etc. Most of us although disappointed not to see a Panthers and Tigers showdown were highly entertained and pleased with the standard of the racing that we did see. Stratford did themselves proud as did all the other teams and as far as I can see most of the drivers are philosophical about referees decisions. Most of them that I have ever spoken to realise that they are taking part in a sport and in sport sometimes decisions do not go your way. As far as I can see Speedway NZ doesn't need to issue an 'official statement' to placate a few disgruntled and disappointed fans who don't like to accept that sometimes referees decisions are not what you want them to be. Yep very good point :-) |
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jj26
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Post by jj26 on Feb 7, 2011 19:34:35 GMT 12
With all the sh!t that is going down with; "conspiracy theories", "Hemi allowed to attack under red", "Promoters didn't want Nelson in the final" etc etc Wouldn't you expect that somewhere would come a offical statement (and I mean Speedway New Zealand here) to answer the fans and I presume many of the drivers questions? Or am I again expecting too much? No wonder only a small handfull of drivers and high level speedway individuals post and read on this site, the amount of rubbish posted on here sometimes is amazing, and I sometimes wonder if this board does more bad than good (No offence to Mr Macgor, he does so much work in keeping this board worth reading) Sometimes I just have to wonder.... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 19:35:16 GMT 12
Well I've spoken to two family members who attended, both ladies in the mid 50's who have been attending Speedway and Teams Champs for a very long time.
They are not macgorians, yet they also commented to me (without any prompting) the officialdom is leaving a lot to be desired, and its not what it used to be.
Now I would imagine a great proportion of the crowd over the weekend are also macgorians, we seem to be everywhere!.
While I wouldnt expect any official release from SNZ, I do think it's time they address the refereeing system at Teams Champs. The addition of a few cameras, a few extra eyes and flagmen would all have an advantage, and help to plug the gaps in officialdom and decisions, that seem to rear at every teams champs meetings, that I can remember.
I think it's time that SNZ make a commitment to the fans of the sport, and a much more improved to the drivers of each team....some whom Im sure that they have been hard done by and dealt unfairly, despite what has been written and said.
It seems every year's the consistency and application of the rules are the major negative that comes up every year, and some teams who might not have been truthfully deserving of a promotion through the qualifying ranks may have progressed due to an unfair ruling by the ref.
I just hope in years to come that question marks wont be placed over the officials heads.
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Post by Wildcat on Feb 7, 2011 19:35:40 GMT 12
Should have it When me horses get relagated ya can always read the stipes report .Somtimes the descistions have been overturned when they have realised they stuffed it up  Still dont get ya dough back . |
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Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2011 20:00:00 GMT 12
certainly there is room for improved info when a decision is made at the track .
It doesn't have to a full report but a simple
"car x relegated for a pole line infringement in lap 3" type of thing would give the crowd some understanding of what happened rather than being left to guess and surmise.
Even the commentators seemed to be none the wiser at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 20:16:10 GMT 12
certainly there is room for improved info when a decision is made at the track . It doesn't have to a full report but a simple "car x relegated for a pole line infringement in lap 3" type of thing would give the crowd some understanding of what happened rather than being left to guess and surmise. Even the commentators seemed to be none the wiser at the time. Just like in the superbowl today, ref on the infield over headmicrophone relayed a decision that was reffered upstairs...sorry I cant remember the play, bu like you said Gordaon, it made the decision clear, against player X and what the penalty was for. Perhaps we could do that with our head referee at Teams Champs? Might provide a few solutions to the fan complaints. And Ive seen the whole read light issue, I think that comes down to competitors taking in some cases too much creative license in stopping.....If there were harsher penalties you would see drivers doing way less creeping under lights? An instant decision via the head referee would also point this out. Then again any referee who does not have 100% faith in his/her ability to make the right calls consistently, would not take up the weekend job? Maybe SNZ wouldnt want to do this either, as it nmight show up thier lack of depth when it comes to consistent call makers? |
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Post by Dirt_Fan on Feb 7, 2011 20:27:17 GMT 12
Even the commentators seemed to be none the wiser at the time. I think youll find the palmy commentator is often none the wiser, last year mispronouncing towgood and then this year telling everyone mooney was doing some good hitting when he wasnt even on the track. |
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Post by chevkiwi on Feb 7, 2011 21:19:43 GMT 12
Seriously all bullshirt aside, even if Nelson were to make the final they would have been SMASHED BY THE "P" ANYWAY. That team were just too good on the night as they have proven many times before. Who cares about the decision, build a bridge, you know the rest  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 22:22:47 GMT 12
Well Im not in the camp of get over it, shut up, and moan next time it happens....sorry to dissapoint.
Steps need to be taken to ensure that application of the rules, are fair even, just and most of all consistent.
Rule breaches, bad calls by refs, flagmen etc are raised during the speedway season every year....yet when it comes to teams, it seems to be the team who wins via these decisions who tell everyone to stop being sore loosers and get over it, and the team who looses and questions decisions, they're told to stop moaning and whinging.
If the system's broke, why would you not want it to be looked into or fixed? Perhaps it's that the one eyed fans mostly P fans who are saying oh well nevermind, and the N fans a baying for blood?
Im a V man, and supoprt by Warriors everytime, so I have no interest in the outcome of the N vs P race mostly in question, and the other incidents relating to the "pole line" incident...apart from the fact that Id like to see a day where no one will blame the ref for a shonky decision one race, and the lack of action from officials in the next race.
If we want the sport to appear more professional, lets start paying our officials for a start, and have regular training etc, that way if you get it wrong you can be fired, and replaced by someone with better skills.
With so much riding on teams, and the gap having narrowed the last few season in terms of machinery etc etc, lets not have a refs call detract from the hard and fast racing on the track.
P.S I think it's also up to the drivers to obey the rules on the track ie red light creeping etc.
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Post by busterbell on Feb 7, 2011 22:47:59 GMT 12
that last point richard, some drivers know how to exploit and flaunt the rules, and the repetitive offenders do so because they get away with it or know they will get away with it.  the idea that they are pushing for a international flavour is amusing considering the checkered ( excuse the pun) history this event has had in the past and continues to have. now its not the event itself that is in question, but the continual rule breaking, bending or ignoring that irks me (and others) the most. home track advantage has never been so widely exploited than at palmy. perhaps it is a purposeful ploy to add another element to a otherwise fantastic weekend. you tell me palmy people, why does this event have to include controversy, year after year. |
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Post by Skorp on Feb 7, 2011 23:00:03 GMT 12
there needs to be changes. whether that means rewritign the rules to make the intent clearer, or making it clearer as to what constitutes a breach. there also then needs to me more consistant inforcement of those rules. heck, even fifa, who have resisted change for i dont know how long have said they screwed up and are gogin to implement changes to thier refereeing system. so why cant snz?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 23:04:21 GMT 12
you tell me palmy people, why does this event have to include controversy, year after year. Cause u buggas keep reading to much into things . I remember about 5 years ago a rugby game between AK and the naki. I needed Ak to win by 15+ for a $12,000 collect (it was the last game on a 10 leg multi bet). 4 mins into injury time Ak were up by 17 and I was over the moon. then four and a half mins after the came was sposed to be finished he awarded a dodgy looking penalty to Taranaki, who kicked a meaningless 3 pt penalty to give akl the win by 14 pts and cost me the 12k collect. I was p!ssed but didn't run round crying conspiracy. It was just one of those things, bitter pill to swallow but such is life |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 23:10:07 GMT 12
I agree buster with the drivers who break the rules because they get away with it, it's quite plain to see in some online videos posted on the internet. But the moment you point it out, people say "well you dont drive so what the hell would you know" And "Do you realise these people arent paid to do thier job, perhaps you should give it a go"....sometimes you are belittled for making a post, when all youre trying to do is raise discussion to better the sport!  Give me a break, Im a fan first and foremost, and have been for most of my life, but I want to see the sport progress, and to progress you must fix what is broken. This discussion pops up every year buster, and not just for teams Champs, often the NZ champs in both grades, and other titles too....but how do we fix the inconsistency of New Zealand Speedway officiating? Or does the sport even want too? |
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Post by my2cents on Feb 7, 2011 23:22:31 GMT 12
I agree buster with the drivers who break the rules because they get away with it, it's quite plain to see in some online videos posted on the internet. But the moment you point it out, people say "well you dont drive so what the hell would you know" And "Do you realise these people arent paid to do thier job, perhaps you should give it a go"....sometimes you are belittled for making a post, when all youre trying to do is raise discussion to better the sport! Give me a break, Im a fan first and foremost, and have been for most of my life, but I want to see the sport progress, and to progress you must fix what is broken. This discussion pops up every year buster, and not just for teams Champs, often the NZ champs in both grades, and other titles too....but how do we fix the inconsistency of New Zealand Speedway officiating? Or does the sport even want too? Well said. I too have tryed to raise some points from time to time to start a discussion. Some times I might not even agree with what I am saying at the time, all I was trying to do was start a disscussion to see other peoples point of view only to get shot down |
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Post by raftguide on Feb 8, 2011 4:22:18 GMT 12
Im really with the clarity issue from a fans point of view. In this day and age the technology is there. At least keep us at the track informed with what the reasons for what decisions are, particularly when it involves the business end of the competition.
From my perspective, I was all wired for the dream final I was looking for only to have the rug pulled for reasons that were unclear.
Im just a Speedway supporter with no hard allegiances to any Team but I did feel a bit robbed over this as it was all going down.
Kind of feels like an unfinished competition considering how easily Nelson got their 3rd placing and how easily Palmy won.
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Post by BarryB on Feb 8, 2011 5:32:25 GMT 12
Some times I might not even agree with what I am saying at the time Well said, from one BB to another  |
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Still dont get ya dough back .
