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Post by 4zfed on Feb 8, 2011 6:25:02 GMT 12
Im really with the clarity issue from a fans point of view. In this day and age the technology is there. At least keep us at the track informed with what the reasons for what decisions are, particularly when it involves the business end of the competition. From my perspective, I was all wired for the dream final I was looking for only to have the rug pulled for reasons that were unclear. Im just a Speedway supporter with no hard allegiances to any Team but I did feel a bit robbed over this as it was all going down. Kind of feels like an unfinished competition considering how easily Nelson got their 3rd placing and how easily Palmy won. You must of been watching a different race for 3rd/4th to the rest of us cause that race between Rebels/Tigers was like a war and the best of the weekend. |
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Post by penman on Feb 8, 2011 7:13:42 GMT 12
Im really with the clarity issue from a fans point of view. In this day and age the technology is there. At least keep us at the track informed with what the reasons for what decisions are, particularly when it involves the business end of the competition. From my perspective, I was all wired for the dream final I was looking for only to have the rug pulled for reasons that were unclear. Im just a Speedway supporter with no hard allegiances to any Team but I did feel a bit robbed over this as it was all going down. Kind of feels like an unfinished competition considering how easily Nelson got their 3rd placing and how easily Palmy won. You must of been watching a different race for 3rd/4th to the rest of us cause that race between Rebels/Tigers was like a war and the best of the weekend. Gotta agree with you fedz. The Tigers and Rebels went toe-to-toe in that race and slugged it out in a full-on street fight. It was only a couple of key moments that really swung it the Tigers' way, and the Rebels really came out fired up for that one. I agree the final was one-sided, but it was only that way because the Panthers wiped the Scrappers off the track early on...and once they had their foot on the throat, they refused to take it off (thinking of Ogle nailed to the wall and unable to move for the last five or six laps). That's just a professional team doing theior job. |
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Post by Skorp on Feb 8, 2011 7:17:13 GMT 12
Im really with the clarity issue from a fans point of view. In this day and age the technology is there. At least keep us at the track informed with what the reasons for what decisions are, particularly when it involves the business end of the competition. From my perspective, I was all wired for the dream final I was looking for only to have the rug pulled for reasons that were unclear. Im just a Speedway supporter with no hard allegiances to any Team but I did feel a bit robbed over this as it was all going down. Kind of feels like an unfinished competition considering how easily Nelson got their 3rd placing and how easily Palmy won. You must of been watching a different race for 3rd/4th to the rest of us cause that race between Rebels/Tigers was like a war and the best of the weekend. yes but nelson still did it quite easily, despite all the hits rotorua put in. nichols was able to just keep reeling off the laps withotu much hassel |
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Post by knowtoomuch on Feb 8, 2011 19:59:23 GMT 12
Rule breaches, bad calls by refs, flagmen etc are raised during the speedway season every year....yet when it comes to teams, it seems to be the team who wins via these decisions who tell everyone to stop being sore loosers and get over it, and the team who looses and questions decisions, they're told to stop moaning and whinging. If the system's broke, why would you not want it to be looked into or fixed? Perhaps it's that the one eyed fans mostly P fans who are saying oh well nevermind, and the N fans a baying for blood? Contrary to your belief not everybody that is saying 'Grow up and get over' it is a victorious fan. I am not affiliated to any of the Teams in the Championship (coming from the Wairarapa) and so have no axe to grind, but still feel that there is no point in throwing accusations and in some cases insults on this forum. If the referees, being human, made errors of judgment then as in all other sports the participants have to wear it, they know and accept that going in. Obviously in a perfect world one could expect that the decisions made would all be fair and correct but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world do we? Certainly it would help matters if there was better dissemination of information about such referee calls and decisions on the actual night. There is no reason why commentators couldn't inform the crowd of not only the decisions taken but the reason s for them instead of leaving us wondering and making reasons up in our own heads. Perhaps then people's imaginations and paranoias wouldn't take hold of them and we wouldn't have all the tedious mudslinging and blame shifting that seems to accompany every national championship in Speedway. If there is something wrong with the system by all means work towards fixing it but whining and complaining on a website is not actually going to achieve anything. Put a submission forward to Speedway NZ, lobby drivers to vote for it, or perhaps volunteer to do the job yourself and show others how to do it 'properly' instead of just complaining. If you are not prepared to be part of the solution then you can't really complain can you? |
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Post by busterbell on Feb 8, 2011 20:59:52 GMT 12
you tell me palmy people, why does this event have to include controversy, year after year.  Cause u buggas keep reading to much into things . the only problem with your wee story there ram is that that is a one off event. a one off discretion at the teams every so often would also be easier to swallow and accept.  but almost every year?? and almost always favouring the home side?? whether it be blatently towing a car onto the track, 10 min bells, or snail pace hummers ( a few examples) i dont think myself can accept that "such is life" and its "just one of those things" |
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Post by speedwaykitty on Feb 8, 2011 21:04:26 GMT 12
Cause u buggas keep reading to much into things . the only problem with your wee story there ram is that that is a one off event. a one off discretion at the teams every so often would also be easier to swallow and accept. but almost every year?? and almost always favouring the home side?? whether it be blatently towing a car onto the track, 10 min bells, or snail pace hummers ( a few examples) i dont think myself can accept that "such is life" and its "just one of those things" Sheesh, and the tigers are perfect? Busterbell.... time for you to grow up and accept that maybe there was a wrong call by the official, and yes, Panthers have also had calls go against them, but do you hear me bleating on all the time about ................... no For goodness sake... GROW UP |
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Post by busterbell on Feb 8, 2011 22:07:11 GMT 12
you are totally missing the point, which is , things have been happning for years.
telling me to stop bleating and grow up is just a attempt at sweeping the issue under the carpet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 22:17:28 GMT 12
Rule breaches, bad calls by refs, flagmen etc are raised during the speedway season every year....yet when it comes to teams, it seems to be the team who wins via these decisions who tell everyone to stop being sore loosers and get over it, and the team who looses and questions decisions, they're told to stop moaning and whinging. If the system's broke, why would you not want it to be looked into or fixed? Perhaps it's that the one eyed fans mostly P fans who are saying oh well nevermind, and the N fans a baying for blood? Contrary to your belief not everybody that is saying 'Grow up and get over' it is a victorious fan. I am not affiliated to any of the Teams in the Championship (coming from the Wairarapa) and so have no axe to grind, but still feel that there is no point in throwing accusations and in some cases insults on this forum. If the referees, being human, made errors of judgment then as in all other sports the participants have to wear it, they know and accept that going in. Obviously in a perfect world one could expect that the decisions made would all be fair and correct but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world do we? Certainly it would help matters if there was better dissemination of information about such referee calls and decisions on the actual night. There is no reason why commentators couldn't inform the crowd of not only the decisions taken but the reason s for them instead of leaving us wondering and making reasons up in our own heads. Perhaps then people's imaginations and paranoias wouldn't take hold of them and we wouldn't have all the tedious mudslinging and blame shifting that seems to accompany every national championship in Speedway. If there is something wrong with the system by all means work towards fixing it but whining and complaining on a website is not actually going to achieve anything. Put a submission forward to Speedway NZ, lobby drivers to vote for it, or perhaps volunteer to do the job yourself and show others how to do it 'properly' instead of just complaining. If you are not prepared to be part of the solution then you can't really complain can you? My belief is not that all people who post telling you to get over yourself are victorious fans at all, I never said that. This is a discussion Board, and as a member I have enjoyed the privelage of posting my thoughts on various topics to provide discussion and promote feedback, and Ill continue to do that, wether Im called a whinger a moaner or part of the problem, youre point of view, and you're entitled too it, as am I. I am not mudslinging, but you are certainly right that I am pointing blame, I am blaming the system that I believe is broken and needs to be fixed. I am a passionate fan, as Ive pointed out previosuly, this is a place to discuss ideas, please dont tell me Im moaning and whinging, I am trying to be part of the solution by canvassing others points of views and ideas. I will not sit by however as a passionate fan, and let issues I believe need to be addressed simply be allowed to be swept under the carpet. And if I feel the need to discuss my thoughts and opinions, I make no apology to anyone for discussing them in a public forum, as this is exactly that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 22:49:18 GMT 12
As we live in the technology age, what are your thoughts on a camera system to be implemented at all major NZ titles?
Ive read here that incar cameras which feature in some great online footage inside cars seem to be relatively inexpensive and provide good clear video and audio quality.
An idea Ive had is at all SNZ sanctioned championship meetings, the host track or SNZ be required to provide four cameras located on the outside of the track, covering all four corners.
If the system was able to be set upas a live feed back into the ref's box, or wherever else, perhaps this could aid in on the spot decision making.
Do you think this is a viable and cost effective proposal?
Would this provide another option to aid in refereeing and provide some solutions to penalising drivers after meetings for light creeping etc?
What are youre thoughts for discussion?
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Post by knowtoomuch on Feb 9, 2011 21:11:38 GMT 12
yet when it comes to teams, it seems to be the team who wins via these decisions who tell everyone to stop being sore loosers and get over it, and the team who looses and questions decisions, they're told to stop moaning and whinging. I direct your attention to the quote above where you actually do state that that you believe that the victorious team is telling others to stop being poor losers and get over it. If that is not really your belief then perhaps you should have phrased it a different way as perhaps I should have done with my post if you were misled in thinking that it was a personal attack on you and your views. The message that I was trying to get across was that there are too many people on this forum that are as you say " whingers and moaners' that are not prepared to be part of the solution but prefer to sit back and criticise and as I said in some cases sling insults without offering any sensible or practicable suggestions. At no time did I accuse you of being one of those. I agree with you that forums like this are here so that we can freely share our opinions on many and varied topics, but it appears to me that many times they are abused and degenerate into slanging matches which are certainly not productive or particularly useful. Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion and entitled to share that opinion with others if they wish but by the same token they should also be prepared for others to do the same without taking umbrage or being offensive. On another note: Cameras giving a live feed to the referees box could be a useful tool but like all systems would not be foolproof and would not see everything any more than the referees do. They certainly could be used more and would be very useful in protests etc but would their use cause more delays in the racing as the referees reviewed every decision "just to be sure' ? Would all clubs, large and small a) be able to afford to buy them and install them b) have the technological nous to install and run them well c) if Speedway NZ provided them would they have the people available to either run them or temporarily install them anywhere. d) would clubs need to put in permanent wiring to accomodate them when they are used? Just some things to think about. |
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Post by busterbell on Feb 9, 2011 21:35:24 GMT 12
perhaps before things get to technical with cameras etc, they need to sort what they have now ( or lack off ) and they way in which they are implemented. perhaps they need a set of eyes on every corner and a communication system to relay any major breaches. i don't see there being a need to overdo the technicalities for pole line breaches for eg. if its a close thing, let it slide, if it is a major breach then penalize accordingly. all i would like to see is consistency right across the board.  |
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Post by BarryB on Feb 10, 2011 8:19:03 GMT 12
It won't matter what you do, nobody (human, or camera operated by a human) will see everything. It doesn't in other sports, even where they have dozens of cameras operating.
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Post by wildnaki on Feb 10, 2011 10:33:11 GMT 12
perhaps before things get to technical with cameras etc, they need to sort what they have now ( or lack off ) and they way in which they are implemented. perhaps they need a set of eyes on every corner and a communication system to relay any major breaches. i don't see there being a need to overdo the technicalities for pole line breaches for eg. if its a close thing, let it slide, if it is a major breach then penalize accordingly. all i would like to see is consistency right across the board. Sorry, i disagree, firstly define 'a close thing' and 'a major breach' you just cant 'let it slide', there doesnt need to be any grey areas, surely it can be just black and white, plain and simple. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 16:49:57 GMT 12
It won't matter what you do, nobody (human, or camera operated by a human) will see everything. It doesn't in other sports, even where they have dozens of cameras operating. I completley disagree Barry. Look at Tennis with the ability for a player to use camera based technology to challenge umpire calls, Super 15, NRL Rugby Union all have video referee;s to make the challenging calls, and Fifa has finally decided afters years in the dark age to investigate the use of technology to aid in more acdcurate decisions, Im sure there are other sports I cant think of right now also. Cameras are used everywhere from motorway traffic monitoring and CCTV cameras throught the countries main streets.Why are we not looking at utilising a trial; similar to the crate superstock engine. Trial it for a season at NZ Champ meetings and see how useful or useless it could be? While I agree that cameras will not catch everything, I think they would be a much larger assest to the decision making process than the system we have now. I would imagine it would be hard to recruit new referees and officials given the amount of flack they do get when a wrong decision is made, or would I be wrong and there are dozens and dozens or volunteers putting thier hands up to take on the job? I think the technology could also aid in spotting drivers who have thier thumbs down in a corner....that topic seems to pop up quite regularly. I guess Im keen to see what ideas we can come up to progress our refereeing system. Or are we just going to sit down and say it wobnt benefit looking into our system, doing nothing, and continue the way we are. It seems other areas in our sport have made progress. |
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Post by maltro on Feb 11, 2011 8:05:58 GMT 12
I tend to agree with trailing cameras, probably more for after the race in sorting out protests etc than during the racing (too many hold ups with refs checking their calls).
One problem I see though was shown in another thread on the teams champs.
Someone posted (cant find it now??) a video showing the start of the race where the Tigers were relegated. Posts that followed said the ref made the right call - the video showed the driver well over the pole line, and other posts bagged the ref for making a wrong call and the car was no where near the pole line. Cant win??
1 video - 2 completely opposite opinions on what it showed. Who is correct?
Of course I guess it depends on what side of the fence you sit as to how you view the footage, and then what comments will be posted on here as to who is wrong.
Would we be any better off with video?
I guess the question is, what are the officials to do when this happens??? darned if they do - darned if they don't.
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Feb 14, 2011 13:50:58 GMT 12
One small point, even though this is the premier event of the superstock season, it is not a SNZ championship. Their obligations go no further than, say, the Auckland stockcar champs.
It is the promotion who is responsible for the level of SNZ involvement by requesting extra oficials etc. Pesonally, I believe that there needs to be five referee's, one for each corner reporting to the boss in the tower who makes the decisions on the spot. I believe the only protests that can be made is by the team manager requesting a review of a decision made against his team. This puts a lot of responsibility on the senior ref to get it right, but simplifies the decision making process, and having a reporter sitting next to him will help everyone with the relaying of the decision and the reason for it (and also to see what the ref sees). Its within the promotors capabilities to do this now without any rule changes from SNZ.
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