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Post by mikehansen on Feb 16, 2011 14:18:16 GMT 12
I have been told that you can use a set of them on a saloon motor?
I cant find anything in the rules that say you can or that you cant?
The heads are listed as a chev replacement head so can they be used if they are strait plug head?
more info would be a big help please?
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Post by craige on Feb 16, 2011 19:14:48 GMT 12
easy solution ring snz to confirm
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Post by chris13w on Feb 16, 2011 21:11:07 GMT 12
The castings have to be Chev cast iron, OEM, cylinder heads, so that's anything off a production engine, such as a "Fuelie" or a "Vortec". "Bowtie" head castings are made by Chevrolet, but are racing aftermarket only, not OEM, so not allowed. There is a specific "World Products" replacement head that is specified by part number and is OK to use, anything else - no way. So, if its any of those castings, ported by Pro Action, all good, if not - forget it. Its all detailed in the rules, spelled out in black and white, no grey areas at all. Incidentally, when I first converted my Saloon from a Super it had a pair of angle plugged Fuelie heads (no such thing was ever made by Chev) - someone had drilled the plug holes out, screwed in plugs, then redrilled them on an angle like a Bowtie. I took them to Bryan Hartley to see if they could be converted back, he said someone had spent a huge amount of time and money and would have got no benefit for it! (Didn't help me though, not standard straight plug Fuelies, so had to replace them even though no performance advantage)...  |
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Post by HRC on Feb 16, 2011 22:30:56 GMT 12
hi Mike there are heads made by RHS (used to be pro /action or pro topline) in the rule book you will find part numbers that you can use on a saloon there are a couple of other numbers that are allowed but you will need a rule book from a couple of seasons ago or give SNZ a call or give me a call and il give them to you
cheers Martin Halcrow
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Post by chris13w on Feb 17, 2011 10:13:14 GMT 12
As I said, only need to look at the rules, all spelled out:
(f) The following cast Iron Cylinder Heads are approved;
Chev:-
World Products #4266B and #4267B
with raised casting letters „SR‟,
RHS #12400
(76cc Chamber, 170cc Runner, 1.940/1.500 Valves);
RHS #12401
(76cc Chamber, 170cc Runner, 2.020/1.600 Valves);
RHS #12402
(67cc Chamber, 170cc Runner, 1.940/1.500 Valves);
RHS #12403
(67cc Chamber, 170cc Runner, 2.020/1.600 Valves)
Ford:-
World Products #5303B with raised letters “WINDSOR JUNIOR‟.
And the old book said exactly the same thing, but without the RHS numbers.
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Post by HRC on Feb 17, 2011 16:53:01 GMT 12
here are the numbers for the (other )rhs heads that were in the 07 rule book and are still legal
RHS#2236794 167T 67cc chamber(written as camber in the rule book)
RHS2237694 167T 76cc chamber
these heads are the original RHS heads that were allowed to be used in LTD saloons but when the new rule book came ouit the new heads had a new part number but are the same head castings
cheers Martin Halcrow (saloon tech member)
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Post by mikehansen on Feb 17, 2011 21:44:36 GMT 12
so are RHS heads proaction heads?
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Post by chris13w on Feb 18, 2011 9:39:10 GMT 12
HRC says so - but make sure you have the part numbers listed, otherwise they will be illegal.
Or just get a set of Votecs, they're pretty good and you can easily buy them new from the States - shouldn't be expensive with the current exchange rate.
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Post by mikehansen on Feb 18, 2011 15:11:41 GMT 12
HRC says so - but make sure you have the part numbers listed, otherwise they will be illegal. Or just get a set of Votecs, they're pretty good and you can easily buy them new from the States - shouldn't be expensive with the current exchange rate. can you get them in a 64cc or smaller chamber? or ill buy a second hand set of brodex heads for $1000-1500 and ill have a dam good engine for under 7 grand (have brought a shortblock now) with aprox 550-575hp. I have priced up 2 options and man its expencive to get a set of legal heads ported etc! $4400 for a set of world products and a little more than 5k for a set of vortec heads done as they are 67cc or larger chamber! |
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Post by chris13w on Feb 18, 2011 22:20:12 GMT 12
Stop worrying about it so much!!!! Just get a standard set and bolt them on and go out and race the bl@@dy thing!!!!  ...and the 570hp isn't much use to you if you have to race as a Super... your not even in the ball park... you would have more luck with a Saloon and a set of unported heads, IMHO... |
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Post by HRC on Feb 18, 2011 22:58:12 GMT 12
mike you need to read a rule book
do you know what you want to race ?
if its a saloon read the rules for saloons if its super saloons read the rules for supers you cant run alloy heads on saloons but you can run iron heads on supers 570 hp will work fine on a hot day on a dry dusty track but wont get you to the front on a dark damp night
cheers Martin Halcrow sprint car and HRC super saloon 24w
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Post by chris13w on Feb 19, 2011 11:41:17 GMT 12
HRC says so - but make sure you have the part numbers listed, otherwise they will be illegal. Or just get a set of Vortecs, they're pretty good and you can easily buy them new from the States - shouldn't be expensive with the current exchange rate. can you get them in a 64cc or smaller chamber? Vortec's have a 64cc chamber as standard, so what's the problem? www.onedirt.com/tech-stories/engine/a-guide-to-vortec-vs-oe-small-block-chevy-heads/And what is the short block you've already bought, as that has a big affect on what class you run it in?? No good for a Saloon if its anything bigger than a 350. And probably a waste of time for a Super if its that small, as not many small engines ever perform at that level - just pop all the time as they are over stressed trying to keep up with 406's... |
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Post by mikehansen on Feb 19, 2011 15:16:14 GMT 12
can you get them in a 64cc or smaller chamber? Vortec's have a 64cc chamber as standard, so what's the problem? www.onedirt.com/tech-stories/engine/a-guide-to-vortec-vs-oe-small-block-chevy-heads/And what is the short block you've already bought, as that has a big affect on what class you run it in?? No good for a Saloon if its anything bigger than a 350. And probably a waste of time for a Super if its that small, as not many small engines ever perform at that level - just pop all the time as they are over stressed trying to keep up with 406's... short blocks is a 350 block with steel caps,eagle crank and H beam eagle rods with JE pistons 30 over (12cc dome) gear drive etc etc so im sure it will be ok. I found some heads on trade me but the price is stupid ($1750 bare) Vortecs 66cc chambers! but will keep looking and marty the title for supers is in nelson next year and that is one of the reasons to keep my car as a super and another is because i can put a motor in and go racing with out having to change anything apart from the seat. |
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Post by chris13w on Feb 19, 2011 17:42:57 GMT 12
US$330 each for 64cc ones from Summit: www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12558060/So probably about a grand landed?? You need matching Vortec manifold and centre bolt rocker covers as well. Or look on E-Bay, probably plenty of secondhand ones on there. |
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Post by mikehansen on Feb 19, 2011 19:43:28 GMT 12
US$330 each for 64cc ones from Summit: www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12558060/So probably about a grand landed?? You need matching Vortec manifold and centre bolt rocker covers as well. Or look on E-Bay, probably plenty of secondhand ones on there. thanks chris ill have a look |
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hath
Full Member
Posts: 154
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Post by hath on Feb 20, 2011 6:59:20 GMT 12
only some dome pistons will fit vortec heads due to their combustion chamber shape
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Post by chris13w on Feb 20, 2011 13:06:00 GMT 12
Mine have got domes for 12.5:1 and they were just your usual 406 type piston, nothing special to suit the heads, no clearance issues or machining required.
Must have just been lucky!
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hath
Full Member
Posts: 154
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Post by hath on Feb 20, 2011 14:34:11 GMT 12
when you get up to around 13.4 or more the domes match the shape of the combustion chamber
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Post by chris13w on Feb 20, 2011 16:03:21 GMT 12
I run good old BP 98, so I think 12.5 is good enough! ;D ;D
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Post by mikehansen on Feb 20, 2011 16:27:01 GMT 12
12cc dome with 64cc chamber with thin 7cc gaskets with std stroke and 0 deckhight is 13.7 to 1 which is on the very upper limit for avgas and about bang on for methanol
thats why i want 64cc heads
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