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Post by Willess on Jan 4, 2012 18:31:11 GMT 12
I see on the Palmy website that they are running the same format as the Superstock teams.
I feel the TOP FOUR TEAMS are the TOP FOUR TEAMS. Not if you lose a semi on the Saturday you are running for 5th & 6th.
The teams put body and cars on the line to get into the semis only to be placed further down the line if they lose.
I realize its good for spectators/supporters of teams to have something really good to go for but if this tittle goes to another track who will be the ones that are seeded for next season?..... The Top 4 that qualify or the top four that get there because of another way for running it?
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Post by BarryB on Jan 4, 2012 18:43:24 GMT 12
You can argue for both formats, but what you're suggesting means you only have to top your group on Night 1 - and that is mathematically achievable by only winning 1 of your 2 races - and you'd become a seeded team for the following year even if you then went on and lost both of your second night races. I don't think a 1 win/3 loss record should be good enough to be seeded Top 4 team 12 months later. Under the PN format that cannot happen........
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Post by Skorp on Jan 4, 2012 18:52:33 GMT 12
You can argue for both formats, but what you're suggesting means you only have to top your group on Night 1 - and that is mathematically achievable by only winning 1 of your 2 races - and you'd become a seeded team for the following year even if you then went on and lost both of your second night races. I don't think a 1 win/3 loss record should be good enough to be seeded Top 4 team 12 months later. Under the PN format that cannot happen........ with the pn format, it depends on how much you lose your semi by. if none of your cars finish the semi, then you have ot race for 5th/6th. but if you lose lose semi adn get more points than the team that lost the other semi, then you can race for 3rd/4th. its pretty stupid that you can lose 3 of your races and still be ranked in the top 4. also, what i read into the announcement of the format for the stock car teams is that 12 teams have already entered for the super stock teams in feb, but maybe im reading too much into it. still, would be nice to have 12 teams again, the format is less confusing for 12 teams with a straight groups system than with the 11 teams format of the past couple of years. |
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Post by BarryB on Jan 4, 2012 19:40:00 GMT 12
Fingers crossed for 12, yes. The 11 team format is a little messy and confusing in some respects, but is still better than either 8 teams or not meeting at all  |
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Post by Skorp on Jan 4, 2012 20:03:38 GMT 12
Fingers crossed for 12, yes. The 11 team format is a little messy and confusing in some respects, but is still better than either 8 teams or not meeting at all agreed, id rather have 11 teams than nothing at all any word on overseas teams for this year? will the lions be returning? also last season i heard rumors of a possible dutch team, anyone know if that is happening? |
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Jan 4, 2012 22:09:12 GMT 12
so do you have to finish both races on top to get into final or can you still win 1 lose 1 sort of thing  |
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Post by Skorp on Jan 4, 2012 22:51:55 GMT 12
so do you have to finish both races on top to get into final or can you still win 1 lose 1 sort of thing because its done on points, it is technically possible to get through winning only one race. if all three teams in a group lose a race, then someone is going through with onyl one win. also if you get enough points in the race you lose and the race you win, you can go through if the team that wins both races doesnt get enough points |
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Post by tank11 on Jan 4, 2012 23:05:58 GMT 12
so do you have to finish both races on top to get into final or can you still win 1 lose 1 sort of thing because its done on points, it is technically possible to get through winning only one race. if all three teams in a group lose a race, then someone is going through with onyl one win. also if you get enough points in the race you lose and the race you win, you can go through if the team that wins both races doesnt get enough points A win the first night is worth more than the rest of the places in the same race. So if you only won both races you would end up with 100 x2=200points. If you only won the first race and placed in all but the win in the second you end up with 195. Posible to place only, in both races 180 points and beat a team that won one but insufficient placings in the other (100+3rd, 4th and 5th(20+10+5)=135). Something like that. Gis got through a year or so back like this, win the race and take as many placings as possible as well. |
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Post by Skorp on Jan 5, 2012 9:00:32 GMT 12
because its done on points, it is technically possible to get through winning only one race. if all three teams in a group lose a race, then someone is going through with onyl one win. also if you get enough points in the race you lose and the race you win, you can go through if the team that wins both races doesnt get enough points A win the first night is worth more than the rest of the places in the same race. So if you only won both races you would end up with 100 x2=200points. If you only won the first race and placed in all but the win in the second you end up with 195. Posible to place only, in both races 180 points and beat a team that won one but insufficient placings in the other (100+3rd, 4th and 5th(20+10+5)=135). Something like that. Gis got through a year or so back like this, win the race and take as many placings as possible as well. palmy have gotten through once or twice in reccent years after only winning one race, its all about the placings |
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Post by Crow on Jan 5, 2012 10:20:21 GMT 12
I think it has to be points first night for obvious reasons but should be first past the post on the second night.This leads to a different style of racing on the second night,the tactics change.
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Post by HIGHWAY45 on Jan 5, 2012 12:29:49 GMT 12
agree. with points you want to stop others but still keep mobile and in the hunt for points.
first across post does see bigger and more aggressive hits, if you immobilse self then so what, youve still helped stop opposition and also get your 1 needed guy first past the post.
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Post by BarryB on Jan 5, 2012 12:32:35 GMT 12
You're getting a little of the topic of the question now, which wasn't points vs first across the line or how the points work, but how the top for at the end of the meeting should be decided.
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Post by Crow on Jan 5, 2012 12:44:15 GMT 12
You're getting a little of the topic of the question now, which wasn't points vs first across the line or how the points work, but how the top for at the end of the meeting should be decided. First past the post second night means the top four have already been decided on the first night. If you have points both nights you only see one style of racing or a limited range of tactics. |
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Post by BarryB on Jan 5, 2012 12:49:43 GMT 12
You're getting a little of the topic of the question now, which wasn't points vs first across the line or how the points work, but how the top for at the end of the meeting should be decided. First past the post second night means the top four have already been decided on the first night. If you have points both nights you only see one style of racing or a limited range of tactics. Not correct - PN's proposed format sees 8 teams starting night 2 still in the running for a Top 4 spot at the end of that second night (although only 4 of them can actually win). As I said, you're all getting off the topic of the original question. |
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Post by Crow on Jan 5, 2012 12:57:55 GMT 12
Sorry Barry my point is there should only be a tier 1 semi final no tier 2.No points on the second night.
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Post by BarryB on Jan 5, 2012 13:38:57 GMT 12
Sorry Barry my point is there should only be a tier 1 semi final no tier 2.No points on the second night. Okay - I disagree for the reasons posted above. No team that loses 3 from 4 races over 2 nights deserves to be rated Top 4 of 12 in my opinion. Added/Updated AFTER worldno1 quoted me below; No team that LOSES 3 from 4 races over 2 nights deserves to be rated Top 4 of 12 in my opinion, whilst another team that WINS 3 races from 4 is ranked outside of the Top 4. That is what can happen with a straight Tier 1/Tier 2 contest based on first night form only. |
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Post by worldno1 on Jan 5, 2012 14:31:09 GMT 12
Sorry Barry my point is there should only be a tier 1 semi final no tier 2.No points on the second night. Okay - I disagree for the reasons posted above. No team that loses 3 from 4 races over 2 nights deserves to be rated Top 4 of 12 in my opinion. im with you on this one barry!!!! just like few years ago stratty won both races and welly won one and lost one, there was a run off and welly won, stratty deserved to go through that time in my opinion |
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Post by bookers57 on Jan 5, 2012 20:32:35 GMT 12
I know this thread isn't specifically about group winners etc. but is it fair that winning 2 races (ie beating both teams in your group) doesn't guarantee a place in the semis if you haven't earnt enough points in both those races you have won? I fail to see how a team who wins both group races isn't the best team in their group and is able to miss out when both teams they have beaten race & the winner of this race may earn more points & thus the path to qualify to the semis. In theory a team who doesn't lose a race all weekend may only be able to achieve a placing as high as 3rd whereas a team they may have beaten the night before is racing for 1st (but are they the better team?).I believe a system like the basketball comps. whereby if you win a higher percentage of games over your opposition within your group sees you progess, with the current points system only being used if there is an even number of wins (1 win each in group) to act as a tie breaker.
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Post by HIGHWAY45 on Jan 5, 2012 21:10:26 GMT 12
nuts someone with some common sense....
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Post by Pazza on Jan 6, 2012 12:01:55 GMT 12
GO STRATFORD STORMERS
Shouldl b a good night ..
Pleanty of good match ups
Bring on SpeedBox
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