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Post by percy on Jan 23, 2017 11:18:46 GMT 12
I see a number of contributors asking about 6th drivers for named teams. I hope there aren't any.
I'm no health and safety expert but I believe the practice of 6th drivers jumping into unfamiliar cars with non-customised seats is out-dated and dangerous. As a sport we've already admitted Superstocks are going too fast for full contact racing in individual races so why expose 6th drivers to unnecessary risk of injury? This is not tiddlywinks.
There are only two Superstock Teams events where the sixth driver is required and the same promoter runs them both. Just as it was with the teams numbers situation there is no need to await an AGM, the promoter can institute a local rule. The time to do it is now before someone gets hurt.
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Post by knownotmuch on Jan 23, 2017 12:07:39 GMT 12
I agree that having a driver get in an ill-fitting car is unwise to say the least. There is also drivers that will hide injuries rather than let the team go out without its full compliment.
To me the solution is simple, have six cars per team with two reserves on the infield. The one time I have seen this done was when Rotorua hosted the Stockcar teams. I know that one of the teams that made the final had two of their drivers injured, both would have taken to track rather than let the team down but having two reserves in their own cars meant the manager could sit both of the injured drivers out, yet field a full team.
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Post by percy on Jan 23, 2017 13:26:24 GMT 12
I agree that having a driver get in an ill-fitting car is unwise to say the least. There is also drivers that will hide injuries rather than let the team go out without its full compliment. To me the solution is simple, have six cars per team with two reserves on the infield. The one time I have seen this done was when Rotorua hosted the Stockcar teams. I know that one of the teams that made the final had two of their drivers injured, both would have taken to track rather than let the team down but having two reserves in their own cars meant the manager could sit both of the injured drivers out, yet field a full team. Six car teams would prohibit a number of teams from entering. It's hard enough to find 5 drivers/teams willing to teams race for most teams let alone six. I will also add the Rotorua instance you refer to saw winning teams racing three times on finals night, not the two times they will race at Teams Champs. Stockcars frequently race 5 a-side with a total of 6 cars per team so there was already an established six car team in most instances. |
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Post by BarryB on Jan 23, 2017 14:17:15 GMT 12
Drivers undergo medical checks now, so cannot hide injuries as well as they once could.
Barry B
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Post by hbhornets on Jan 23, 2017 15:10:45 GMT 12
Its still easy to hide a k.o and drivers still will. Only admitting to there crew. I dont mind 6th drivers for this very instance. And never herd a 6th driver come to greif. The only answer is when 6th driver used and fails head clealance then a differant set of rules appy. This would rare.
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Post by knownotmuch on Jan 23, 2017 15:16:44 GMT 12
I agree that having a driver get in an ill-fitting car is unwise to say the least. There is also drivers that will hide injuries rather than let the team go out without its full compliment. To me the solution is simple, have six cars per team with two reserves on the infield. The one time I have seen this done was when Rotorua hosted the Stockcar teams. I know that one of the teams that made the final had two of their drivers injured, both would have taken to track rather than let the team down but having two reserves in their own cars meant the manager could sit both of the injured drivers out, yet field a full team. Six car teams would prohibit a number of teams from entering. It's hard enough to find 5 drivers/teams willing to teams race for most teams let alone six. I will also add the Rotorua instance you refer to saw winning teams racing three times on finals night, not the two times they will race at Teams Champs. Stockcars frequently race 5 a-side with a total of 6 cars per team so there was already an established six car team in most instances. As there is no limit to feilding ring-ins at the Superstock teams I should be easy to find a sixth drivers for every team. Between three lower North Island tracks there will be at least 14 drivers who have put their names forward to teams race that will miss the cut for the final 6 if we went that way. I hear Stratford had 8 put their names forward to teams race giving two more that could help make up the numbers. I believe six car teams is a very workable practical solution. |
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Post by BarryB on Jan 23, 2017 15:54:53 GMT 12
6 cars is 20% more than 5 cars........it's fair to assume teams might want 20% more to appear?
Barry B
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Post by BarryB on Jan 23, 2017 15:57:25 GMT 12
Its still easy to hide a k.o and drivers still will. Only admitting to there crew. I dont mind 6th drivers for this very instance. And never herd a 6th driver come to greif. The only answer is when 6th driver used and fails head clealance then a differant set of rules appy. This would rare. I'm saying it's not as easy as it once was. As the NRL and other sports have shown, there's a number of tests that can be done and I think within a year or two you'll see medics erring on the side of caution on a much more regular basis. It won't matter what a driver admits to a crew member. Re head clearance, yes, I've seen more than one driver moved to another car to meet head clearance requirements when a sixth driver has been brought in. AND padding ripped out of a seat to get a replacement driver seated lower in the car to meet the clearance requirement. Barry B |
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Jan 23, 2017 16:17:55 GMT 12
9 times out 0f 10 the 6th driver parks in the middle and isnt used if in another car
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Post by beachboy on Jan 23, 2017 17:40:29 GMT 12
Maybe Percy can shed some light on when and where a sixth driver has been seriously hurt in a Teams racing championship driving a different car?
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Post by hbhornets on Jan 23, 2017 18:53:29 GMT 12
Maybe Percy can shed some light on when and where a sixth driver has been seriously hurt in a Teams racing championship driving a different car? think he saying that so it doesnt happen |
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 23, 2017 19:35:03 GMT 12
Sixth drivers have been used approx 12 times in 15 years, so they are not activated overly frequently.
While Percy's sentiment is admirable, they were invented as a health and safety device, so there was at least some logic to their introduction.
But if it did come to pass and they were banned, would you then have to ban car swapping altogether, i.e. between the other 5 drivers - which probably happens more frequently? And if so, is that ban in force only during the meeting, or is it OK to turn up in a different car to what you raced the week before? and so on and so on.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 20:13:05 GMT 12
Without getting all PC , just leave things as they are . Most of these 6th drivers have been around for many seasons and know what they are doing . Hell take the likes of Peter Rees , throw him in any car and he will drive the wheels of it.
If we are going to get all PC about 6th drivers in cars that are strange to them then we better tell the Poms to stay home.
We dont need people making rules that are not needed.
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Post by percy on Jan 23, 2017 20:23:42 GMT 12
Sixth drivers have been used approx 12 times in 15 years, so they are not activated overly frequently. While Percy's sentiment is admirable, they were invented as a health and safety device, so there was at least some logic to their introduction. But if it did come to pass and they were banned, would you then have to ban car swapping altogether, i.e. between the other 5 drivers - which probably happens more frequently? And if so, is that ban in force only during the meeting, or is it OK to turn up in a different car to what you raced the week before? and so on and so on..... They may have been introduced as a Health & Safety measure but in 2017 we are solving one problem and creating another one. I suspect the rule was created to combat drivers hiding injuries & concussions. The reality of today is that each driver is required to complete a medical check post each teams race. Whilst not foolproof it's much harder to conceal injuries. Yes I would recommend banning car swapping altogether during a teams event. I'm not sure what your last point is re: turning up in a different car to the week before. My proposal only applies to Superstock teams events of which there are two per year. The safety issue is dealt with in individual racing to an extent with the over-aggressive attacking rule. |
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Post by chunkey on Jan 23, 2017 20:37:50 GMT 12
It's been happening for years in the past without any drama. This is stock car racing not flippin school boy tiddle winks for god sake!
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Post by Admin on Jan 23, 2017 20:55:33 GMT 12
A car is a car and so long as the driver fits as per the rules and uses all the required safety equipment I can't see a problem.
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 23, 2017 22:26:54 GMT 12
The last point Percy was illustrated aptly in 2006, when Scott Miers sold his Tank the week before the event and quickly purchased another car. The seatbelts didn't fit properly and he broke his shoulder eliminating Kerry Remnant. So it's not just sixth drivers who can be injured in the manner you suggest - that was the point.
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Post by alleycat137a on Jan 23, 2017 22:38:16 GMT 12
I understand what your saying as it's a dangerous thing to jump into an unknown car. But as someone who as done this alot my thoughts on it are.. Every driver knows how dangerous this sport is. If u race a car after being injured or if you hop in a car and you don't fit properly and you get hurt then that's ya own fault. We are all grown men old enough to make the correct decision. If your ego is bigger then your brain then il have no sympathy for anyone that does it and gets hurt.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 6:47:42 GMT 12
It's been happening for years in the past without any drama. This is stock car racing not flippin school boy tiddle winks for god sake! Just someone trying to force another rule .. |
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Post by hienekenno1 on Jan 24, 2017 7:28:29 GMT 12
Although we don't wont to see injuries it is teams racing and we want to see action!That is why we are there.There are too many rules now we don't need more.As Jamie says if your crazy enough to go out there,GIVE IT HEAPS!
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