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Post by percy on Feb 4, 2017 23:39:24 GMT 12
Tonight's live stream ran flawlessly from start to finish but that's where the good ends and the bad begins.
For an outfit that has produced live streams for years tonights telecast simply wasn't good enough. The days of the live stream being a telecast of the big screen are long gone. The live stream is a television production in it's own right and for $50 so it should be. I don't expect the stream to capture every hit or every piece of action, that would be unrealistic. What I do expect is a professional production and that's not what we got tonight.
The camerawork was hit and miss. The infield camerawork was particularly poor but we saw some pretty good stuff from the end on camera operators. However it was the production that left a lot to be desired.
- Why when a car is being repositioned under reds are we staring at a different car just sitting there?
- Why were we seeing the same replay for the seventh straight time instead of seeing cars trying to disconnect?
- Why were we blankly staring at the crowd during several three minute bells?
- The graphics were like a small child with a new toy. No, I don't need to see a team line up for the fourth time in seven minutes.
- Why were we flicking fast between camera's in some races? It makes it impossible to follow the action.
- Why do we have to follow the leader ad nauseum in some races?
The historic packages they had were pretty cool but they need to fit in with the action. When the green drops for hot laps we should be live. When vehicles take a three minute bell we should be there. When a fence is being repaired we should be seeing it. We don't need to see the same replay over and over again.
Perhaps the most frustrating aspect is that they get it right sometimes. Then the next race comes on and they get it so wrong!! Let's hope tonight was a practice run with some improvement coming for the big show.
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Post by Admin on Feb 5, 2017 6:53:18 GMT 12
Fully agree with everything you have written Percy, gosh knows what they were thinking putting the historic footage on while an event was in progress and the camera/production work was often below an acceptable standard considering the price being charged. When they did get it right it was spot on but that only made the bad stuff look worse. The new graphic needs to find a home off screen asap too. Actual words said here were much more graphic than the actual graphic.
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Post by splinta67 on Feb 5, 2017 7:05:54 GMT 12
oh good it wasnt just me
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Post by tiroto on Feb 5, 2017 7:20:28 GMT 12
Thanks Percy you said what I struggled to put into words. Bloody annoying at times and not worth $50.
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Post by babylon567 on Feb 5, 2017 14:01:23 GMT 12
maybe you are use to the better productions The Pits tv guys are producing in the South Island with the training these guys have of week in week out big time meetings and different classes these guys have come along way since the early days with the help of sponsors and investors maybe the guys producing the teams champs could talk to jase to help with training or coaching or even assisting in the production of the event.
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Post by 33i on Feb 5, 2017 15:01:49 GMT 12
why not just get the pits tv guys to do the whole show for them,would be better quality an probably cheaper
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Post by BarryB on Feb 5, 2017 15:20:42 GMT 12
why not just get the pits tv guys to do the whole show for them,would be better quality an probably cheaper How could it possibly be cheaper to import a crew from the bottom of the South Island than use the guys that are doing the big screen every Saturday night. I'm not saying it wouldn't be better, but cheaper? Barry B |
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Post by percy on Feb 6, 2017 13:38:11 GMT 12
I think we saw an improvement on night 2 but for mine it still wasn't quite there.
There was some excellent work on the Ethan Rees 3-minute well where we were almost fixing the car along with Asher Rees! Also captured was the race in the pit area to get the cars ready for the final. The work going on appeared to be extensive, it was great to see it.
But then there were other times when we were left staring at the crowd, stationary vehicles or the Enzed sign when things were happening on track. Some of the camerawork was sub-standard at times and the director wasn't any better.
Plenty to work on for Video Hub going forward.
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Post by mgninc on Feb 6, 2017 17:08:45 GMT 12
This is all director, he's god when it comes to what comes out of the truck, what cameras etc
Mike actually referred last night to the fact Malcolm was finding and directing some of the better more insightful content
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Post by snow77245 on Feb 6, 2017 20:28:13 GMT 12
Hi,
Coming to this late and this might open me up to some abuse, but I was the on-field camera op for the 2017 PN Teams Champs (and have been for the past 4 years). I get very little feedback about what my shots look like (and I don't have the luxury of watching the screen or the stream so find it very difficult to be a self-critic). I realise that most people who are happy do not bother to post anything (I wouldn't either) so those that do post are not necessarily a good representation of the opinion of the watching audience as a whole, however, you have posted so I appreciate it. They were also my shots in the pits of the repairs so I am pleased that those went down well
Seeing as others have waded in with comments, I would be genuinely interested in finding out more about what was lacking (specifically relating to my camera role - not the Video Hub offering)
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Post by percy on Feb 7, 2017 21:43:48 GMT 12
I hope potential contributors aren't put off by potential abuse. I think this board has shown in recent times that contributor feedback can assist the delivery of speedway meetings. Commentary has been a hot topic this season and the likes of Malcolm Sines, Mike Wilson and Hayden Lambarth have provided insight from a commentators perspective which has helped speedway fans understand the difficulties faced. On the flipside the fans have provided commentators with the information they want at the big championship meetings. All three commentators have received positive feedback on their efforts.
In terms of your camerawork there were indeed some highlights. 3-minute bell coverage was very good at times and the pit shots were good. What wasn't so good at times was the shakiness of the camera during live racing. On some occasions we were viewing live action and the camera would pull away and all of a sudden we were looking at the ground or scanning for the next car.
I don't know what the communication was like with the director but at times it didn't appear you realised you were live.
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Post by haydenmlambarth on Feb 7, 2017 22:00:00 GMT 12
Hi, Coming to this late and this might open me up to some abuse, but I was the on-field camera op for the 2017 PN Teams Champs (and have been for the past 4 years). I get very little feedback about what my shots look like (and I don't have the luxury of watching the screen or the stream so find it very difficult to be a self-critic). I realise that most people who are happy do not bother to post anything (I wouldn't either) so those that do post are not necessarily a good representation of the opinion of the watching audience as a whole, however, you have posted so I appreciate it. They were also my shots in the pits of the repairs so I am pleased that those went down well Seeing as others have waded in with comments, I would be genuinely interested in finding out more about what was lacking (specifically relating to my camera role - not the Video Hub offering) Completely agree with Percy regarding the "abuse" I must say in my first few seasons of commentary I use to dread coming on to macgprs after a meeting to see what people were saying. However I soon opened my eyes and took the feedback as just that feedback and criticism and we all need it. As for the live stream I think as Percy said it's all about that focus. Just think what would you want to see if you were watching the live stream. But make sure you take the comments as feedback never think of it as abuse. Speedway fans are passionate. Keep up the great work Hayden Lambarth |
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Post by snow77245 on Feb 8, 2017 6:19:10 GMT 12
I hope potential contributors aren't put off by potential abuse. I think this board has shown in recent times that contributor feedback can assist the delivery of speedway meetings. Commentary has been a hot topic this season and the likes of Malcolm Sines, Mike Wilson and Hayden Lambarth have provided insight from a commentators perspective which has helped speedway fans understand the difficulties faced. On the flipside the fans have provided commentators with the information they want at the big championship meetings. All three commentators have received positive feedback on their efforts. In terms of your camerawork there were indeed some highlights. 3-minute bell coverage was very good at times and the pit shots were good. What wasn't so good at times was the shakiness of the camera during live racing. On some occasions we were viewing live action and the camera would pull away and all of a sudden we were looking at the ground or scanning for the next car. I don't know what the communication was like with the director but at times it didn't appear you realised you were live. Great - thanks for the clarification Percy. What follows is not intended as an excuse, more an explanation. Correct that both nights I lost all comms with the director and the commentator. I resorted to having my spotter tell me when I was LIVE and when I was NOT (less than ideal as she had other more important roles to fulfil - like warning me of approaching dangers). My role was never intended to capture live racing, I was there for the results of an accident, coin toss, in-field interviews, 3 min bell work and pit footage. The only reason I was filming racing was for stock footage the editor to use in post production for the DVD (for example - the 5 lap warm-ups. I tried to capture each car as they came round the bend near me - there was no time to gracefully end the shot and transition into the next, that was the editors job in post production). I completely understand why the footage was shaky at times and I apologise for when the shots ended prematurely - there is only so far you can rotate on the tray of a side by side before you need to reset  . On that note, we were using a side by side to get around the in-field quickly and also for elevation to get above the photographers and rescue staff as a tripod doesn't give either elevation or flexibility. The side by side was less than stable, especially when rescue staff started utilising it as a rest station (already raised as an issue to address next year) |
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Post by beachboy on Feb 8, 2017 16:29:29 GMT 12
I thought the live stream went well, didn't notice any shaking of the cameras as mentioned or thou I might have been so excited that the two P teams were gone burger that I missed those bits
Things I would change if possible
Get rid of the ad's and promos they cut in and don't flow well, during any breaks just have live pit shots or hot laps, keep it live we want to see whats happening at the meeting not whats on at Manfield next weekend. Run any ad's or promos before or after the meeting.
Replays while good to see I wouldn't run as many repeats of the same thing just 2 at normal speed and 1 slow motion.
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Post by fredsox on Feb 15, 2017 11:57:27 GMT 12
But make sure you take the comments as feedback never think of it as abuse. Speedway fans are passionate. Hayden Lambarth Hayden, While I agree with your point, when I come onto macgor and check posts/comments, much of the feedback is hard to take as anything other than complaints and abuse. Feedback is great, we all need it - I have gleaned a few useful points from some comments but, honestly, the line between passionate and offensive is pretty fine at times. Why would any crew members bother to look to macgor comments for constructive feedback when much of this feedback is phrased in such negative, offensive ways? |
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Post by Jase2 on Mar 15, 2017 9:34:14 GMT 12
why not just get the pits tv guys to do the whole show for them,would be better quality an probably cheaper How could it possibly be cheaper to import a crew from the bottom of the South Island than use the guys that are doing the big screen every Saturday night. I'm not saying it wouldn't be better, but cheaper? Barry B To be fair, that team do a good job and its not in our best interest to even consider stepping on the toes of an established team. Just out of interest Barry .. We do not charge any club any money to do a live stream or to film for TV, unless we use the Satellite which has a supplier based cost attached to it on a per night basis. We are very lucky to have fantastic advertisers that meet most of the costs of running our operation. We are from the South Island where there is clubs that dont have a whole heap of money so have built a business model around ensuring that they get the same amount of air time as the bigger tracks that can afford it. Good on the team from Event VideoHub .. i know how hard it is to get a production going ... its a pity some others dont grasp the amount of time, energy and money that goes in to make these events happen, but also accept that there is a expectation based on what you charge should reflect on the content you supply. Jase |
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. On that note, we were using a side by side to get around the in-field quickly and also for elevation to get above the photographers and rescue staff as a tripod doesn't give either elevation or flexibility. The side by side was less than stable, especially when rescue staff started utilising it as a rest station (already raised as an issue to address next year)
