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Post by Phred on Feb 11, 2018 11:00:06 GMT 12
Watching the Mustangs perhaps under perform for a number of seasons provoked some thoughts as the why this is happening?
With further consideration potentially the recently vilified on track antics of W Hemi have the same cause.
A short time ago I watched a Panthers team of W Humphries? S Joblin, S Joblin and J Miers prevail in a ferocious battle with the Gisbourne Grumblers.
A much longer time back the Panthers managed to thwart a 4 man Rotorua team with only the cars of W Hemi and P Rees actually able to move under their own power.
The point being that given the correct mind set all the drivers mentioned above displayed superb teams racing skills.
Teams races are won by teams of racers – not individual drivers.
The culture of the Mustangs is in some way toxic and the drivers response is they just don’t perform.
I have no knowledge of how the Mustangs team management prepares the team drivers but suspect current the methodology could be substantially improved.
Is it the tactics? Recently 2 Mustang drivers appeared to have been instructed to hang back at the start of a points critical race? The originator of that idiocy could be re-evaluated as currently he/she is using oxygen the rest of us would benefit from.
Some drivers need to be wound up prior to racing others need to be calmed down. All need to be focused so they perform their designated roles to be part of a winning team.
A teams management needs more than a good looking smooth talking public fronting personality. Somewhere a team needs a good coach (For want of a better word) it could well be the manager.
This “Coach” needs to be a person who respects and has the respect of the drivers. The coach must support the drivers both as individuals and as a team.
Teams that have a winning culture will win more than their share of trophies, in defeat they will be content knowing they all gave their best; in victory they will be elated but humble.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 13:32:52 GMT 12
Watching the Mustangs perhaps under perform for a number of seasons provoked some thoughts as the why this is happening? With further consideration potentially the recently vilified on track antics of W Hemi have the same cause. A short time ago I watched a Panthers team of W Humphries? S Joblin, S Joblin and J Miers prevail in a ferocious battle with the Gisbourne Grumblers. A much longer time back the Panthers managed to thwart a 4 man Rotorua team with only the cars of W Hemi and P Rees actually able to move under their own power. The point being that given the correct mind set all the drivers mentioned above displayed superb teams racing skills. Teams races are won by teams of racers – not individual drivers. The culture of the Mustangs is in some way toxic and the drivers response is they just don’t perform. I have no knowledge of how the Mustangs team management prepares the team drivers but suspect current the methodology could be substantially improved. Is it the tactics? Recently 2 Mustang drivers appeared to have been instructed to hang back at the start of a points critical race? The originator of that idiocy could be re-evaluated as currently he/she is using oxygen the rest of us would benefit from. Some drivers need to be wound up prior to racing others need to be calmed down. All need to be focused so they perform their designated roles to be part of a winning team. A teams management needs more than a good looking smooth talking public fronting personality. Somewhere a team needs a good coach (For want of a better word) it could well be the manager. This “Coach” needs to be a person who respects and has the respect of the drivers. The coach must support the drivers both as individuals and as a team. Teams that have a winning culture will win more than their share of trophies, in defeat they will be content knowing they all gave their best; in victory they will be elated but humble. Question Phred , Who are the Gisborne Grumblers ..  ? Just keen to know.. |
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Post by Jeffery on Feb 11, 2018 17:58:15 GMT 12
Watching the Mustangs perhaps under perform for a number of seasons provoked some thoughts as the why this is happening? With further consideration potentially the recently vilified on track antics of W Hemi have the same cause. A short time ago I watched a Panthers team of W Humphries? S Joblin, S Joblin and J Miers prevail in a ferocious battle with the Gisbourne Grumblers. A much longer time back the Panthers managed to thwart a 4 man Rotorua team with only the cars of W Hemi and P Rees actually able to move under their own power. The point being that given the correct mind set all the drivers mentioned above displayed superb teams racing skills. Teams races are won by teams of racers – not individual drivers. The culture of the Mustangs is in some way toxic and the drivers response is they just don’t perform. I have no knowledge of how the Mustangs team management prepares the team drivers but suspect current the methodology could be substantially improved. Is it the tactics? Recently 2 Mustang drivers appeared to have been instructed to hang back at the start of a points critical race? The originator of that idiocy could be re-evaluated as currently he/she is using oxygen the rest of us would benefit from. Some drivers need to be wound up prior to racing others need to be calmed down. All need to be focused so they perform their designated roles to be part of a winning team. A teams management needs more than a good looking smooth talking public fronting personality. Somewhere a team needs a good coach (For want of a better word) it could well be the manager. This “Coach” needs to be a person who respects and has the respect of the drivers. The coach must support the drivers both as individuals and as a team. Teams that have a winning culture will win more than their share of trophies, in defeat they will be content knowing they all gave their best; in victory they will be elated but humble. Question Phred , Who are the Gisborne Grumblers .. ? Just keen to know.. It’s hard to work out isn’t it? |
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Post by maninstand on Feb 11, 2018 18:07:27 GMT 12
Totally agree on the first point. I can’t believe the manager decided to leave the two quickest cars and wait. It was mind blowing. I reckon it’s time for a new manager I have spoken to a few and sorry but the manager in question couldn’t motivate a paper bag or doesn’t seem to have any tactical knowledge. I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking this macgors public
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Post by Jeffery on Feb 11, 2018 18:15:51 GMT 12
Totally agree on the first point. I can’t believe the manager decided to leave the two quickest cars and wait. It was mind blowing. I reckon it’s time for a new manager I have spoken to a few and sorry but the manager in question couldn’t motivate a paper bag or doesn’t seem to have any tactical knowledge. I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking this macgors public I’d actually like to see Jake Baker get a shot at managing the Mustangs. Not sure if he has teams racing ambitions himself, but as an organiser/fundraiser/sponsor of many events and racecars/teams at present, I think would suit the role. He also has some racing experience, been around the scene for a number of years so would garner some respect from the drivers too. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 19:44:20 GMT 12
It’s hard to work out isn’t it? Sort of , possibly those guys who left the Palmerston Pansies ..lol and opted to contract elsewhere. |
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Post by maninstand on Feb 11, 2018 20:08:42 GMT 12
Totally agree on the first point. I can’t believe the manager decided to leave the two quickest cars and wait. It was mind blowing. I reckon it’s time for a new manager I have spoken to a few and sorry but the manager in question couldn’t motivate a paper bag or doesn’t seem to have any tactical knowledge. I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking this macgors public I’d actually like to see Jake Baker get a shot at managing the Mustangs. Not sure if he has teams racing ambitions himself, but as an organiser/fundraiser/sponsor of many events and racecars/teams at present, I think would suit the role. He also has some racing experience, been around the scene for a number of years so would garner some respect from the drivers too. Totally agree. Just like sport all athletes don’t make great coaches. He is well respected and I’m sure he would be great. Who decides the mustangs manager? |
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Post by lexus57p on Feb 15, 2018 10:41:47 GMT 12
Watching the Mustangs perhaps under perform for a number of seasons provoked some thoughts as the why this is happening? With further consideration potentially the recently vilified on track antics of W Hemi have the same cause. A short time ago I watched a Panthers team of W Humphries? S Joblin, S Joblin and J Miers prevail in a ferocious battle with the Gisbourne Grumblers. A much longer time back the Panthers managed to thwart a 4 man Rotorua team with only the cars of W Hemi and P Rees actually able to move under their own power. The point being that given the correct mind set all the drivers mentioned above displayed superb teams racing skills. Teams races are won by teams of racers – not individual drivers. The culture of the Mustangs is in some way toxic and the drivers response is they just don’t perform. I have no knowledge of how the Mustangs team management prepares the team drivers but suspect current the methodology could be substantially improved. Is it the tactics? Recently 2 Mustang drivers appeared to have been instructed to hang back at the start of a points critical race? The originator of that idiocy could be re-evaluated as currently he/she is using oxygen the rest of us would benefit from. Some drivers need to be wound up prior to racing others need to be calmed down. All need to be focused so they perform their designated roles to be part of a winning team. A teams management needs more than a good looking smooth talking public fronting personality. Somewhere a team needs a good coach (For want of a better word) it could well be the manager. This “Coach” needs to be a person who respects and has the respect of the drivers. The coach must support the drivers both as individuals and as a team. Teams that have a winning culture will win more than their share of trophies, in defeat they will be content knowing they all gave their best; in victory they will be elated but humble. |
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Post by lexus57p on Feb 15, 2018 12:09:29 GMT 12
Phred, As a selector for both the Panthers and Mustangs, as well as being tactician for the Mustangs I think I'm well positioned to give you some feedback on your post. I'm not sure where or why you believe the Mustang's culture is toxic, those that have competed for this team over the last couple of years I've been involved have loved the culture and have commented as to how much they have gained from being part of the team.
I certainly wouldn't say they have underperformed either, being regular's in the top 4 on night two and having a 80-90% success rate at making the second night is no mean feat.
I spend a lot of time preparing a race plan, and I'm sure the opposition that lines up against us has done the same thing. The race you refer to that had Scott and Adam Joblin held back off the line was definitely a plan, we believed Auckland would have a blocker early in the race and preferred either Gavin or Chev to come up to them first and clear the way thru for both Joblins. We only held the start for a 1/4 lap to avoid the 8 car first turn pile ups that can destroy a race plan in the blink of an eye. We are also blessed with pace! all the Mustang cars are fast so it allows us to catch pretty much any one late in a race.
At the time of Scott's front end collapsing Mustangs were running 1,2,4,5 and if Adam hadn't of run into the back of our own car just as he was about to cross the finish line we would have finished 1,2,4 which given the points format would have been a great result.
I'm sure you are well aware teams racing has a massive element of luck, hence why we tend to see a different winning teams each year. Cars that have not died all season suddenly have a battery failure, computers fail, diffs break, gearbox's jam and the list goes on.
Nearly all teams have a coach/tactician now and not just a manager, so the racers are better prepared than ever before, most are ex Teams racers who can impart knowledge, confidence and a game plan before going into battle. Once the battle starts sometimes these can go out the window, just look at the final Jordan was smashed into the wall in turn one as was just plain lucky that both he and the car kept going, Pete B had the left front wheel ripped off and again luck played it part that the car was still semi-drivable. On another day it would have been 4 v 2 and game over for the panthers, would that have meant they had no race plan? or were they under prepared? No they just had a little luck on their side this time.
The Mustangs are a feeder for Panthers, the last time I raced for them was with William Humphries, Jordan Dare & Jack Miers so the feeder system is working great. Palmy is lucky to have the best line up week in and week out of Superstocks, some aspire to be teams racers, some would like to give it a try and some simply say its not for them. Making the Mustangs is a big deal and every driver I've either raced with or managed has given it their all for the team. Next time you see a Mustangs team line up just think how few teams racers many of these guys have done compared to the opposition, and don't mistake great individual performances for making a driver a hardened teams racer.
Cheers Dave Ex57p
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Post by sonic33 on Feb 15, 2018 20:56:29 GMT 12
Great explanation. Over and above what you needed to justify, but thank you. This board needs someone like yourself to get amongst us keyboard people (hate warriors) and provide a real response. Us fans on here are passionate and somewhat un-informed, so give our opinion as we see it. To have someone in the know actually reply and give some facts is great. Thanks again. Hope Phred thanks you too!  |
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Post by fraggleina on Feb 16, 2018 10:20:39 GMT 12
That, as Sonlc says is a great response from someone in the know, thanks Dave, as you say luck plays a massive part as well
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? Just keen to know..
