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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 13:03:24 GMT 12
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Post by screaminV8 on Nov 29, 2019 13:17:05 GMT 12
he was obviously agitated and/or panicky, but really!! Obviously not the right thing to do to touch someone but it was no more force that if he had patted the official on the back for doing a good job.
A fine and an apology would have been more appropriate for the sport, fans, sponsors, supporters, crew AND driver!
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Post by tank11 on Nov 29, 2019 13:46:04 GMT 12
Sounds like the person touched, didn't lay the complaint?
Or did I read that wrong?
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Post by screaminV8 on Nov 29, 2019 15:23:55 GMT 12
Sounds like the person touched, didn't lay the complaint? Or did I read that wrong? Not only did the official touched not make the complaint, he actually wrote a letter of support for Pickens. If the "victim" wasn't bothered, how can there be anything to answer to!?!?! |
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Post by bikeboy on Nov 29, 2019 15:24:48 GMT 12
The speedway nz post in the matter says their was 2 incidents , so with out seeing the other one it’s a bit early to make a call isn’t it ?
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Post by screaminV8 on Nov 29, 2019 15:30:13 GMT 12
The speedway nz post in the matter says their was 2 incidents , so with out seeing the other one it’s a bit early to make a call isn’t it ? Oh Ok. If there was something else occured, then that wasn't mentioned in the NZ Herald story. I did think "manhandled" was a bit of a dramatic description for a poke on the shoulder with a finger!! |
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Post by Tapped on Nov 29, 2019 17:58:37 GMT 12
The speedway nz post in the matter says their was 2 incidents , so with out seeing the other one it’s a bit early to make a call isn’t it ? Oh Ok. If there was something else occured, then that wasn't mentioned in the NZ Herald story. I did think "manhandled" was a bit of a dramatic description for a poke on the shoulder with a finger!! one thing the media doesnt do, is to let the truth get in that way of a good story. SNZ should give themselves an upper cut. Bloke's car is on fire so he lets the offical know and then gets a 22 day holiday. |
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Post by midway on Nov 29, 2019 18:26:22 GMT 12
So why has it taken so long for the process of SNZ to take place ??
Right on the eve of the international series that is take place ,it will have a dramatic effect on loss of gate sales and isnt in the best interests of the sport nor the promoters of it .
Of course there is the right of appeal at a cost of $2000 ,more than the average Judge would impose as a fine in the District court on a tap on the shoulder assault charge ,SNZ at its best ,why does the sport bother with such a circus ..
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Post by bikeboy on Nov 29, 2019 18:43:57 GMT 12
So why has it taken so long for the process of SNZ to take place ?? Right on the eve of the international series that is take place ,it will have a dramatic effect on loss of gate sales and isnt in the best interests of the sport nor the promoters of it . Of course there is the right of appeal at a cost of $2000 ,more than the average Judge would impose as a fine in the District court on a tap on the shoulder assault charge ,SNZ at its best ,why does the sport bother with such a circus .. I would guess, since the steward didn't deal with on the night, it was referred to the next board meeting, |
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Post by powerbuilt on Nov 29, 2019 18:45:42 GMT 12
So why has it taken so long for the process of SNZ to take place ?? Right on the eve of the international series that is take place ,it will have a dramatic effect on loss of gate sales and isnt in the best interests of the sport nor the promoters of it . Of course there is the right of appeal at a cost of $2000 ,more than the average Judge would impose as a fine in the District court on a tap on the shoulder assault charge ,SNZ at its best ,why does the sport bother with such a circus .. Unsure the why the delay as the Speedway NZ now have fixed penalties in place (so there could only be one outcome as the whole reason for fixed penalties is to ensure all competitors are treated the same when breaching rules at all SNZ controlled tracks), but the Speedway NZ Board were meeting in Wellington on Wednesday. This is the ruling that has been brought into play. M7-7-3 Physical Abuse Grading Making physical contact with another person 22 Day Stand Down $200 Fine Pushing or Shoving another person 22 Day Stand Down - 12 Month Probation $200 Fine Throwing a punch or injuring another person with an object 12 Month Stand Down - 12 Month Probation $500 Fine |
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Post by penman on Nov 29, 2019 18:55:07 GMT 12
Didn't think it was worth it when I read it....but not entirely convinced now that I have seen it.
That's not a "can you hurry up and grab an extinguisher and put the fire out on my car mate" poke in the shoulder
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Post by midway on Nov 29, 2019 19:45:01 GMT 12
So why has it taken so long for the process of SNZ to take place ?? Right on the eve of the international series that is take place ,it will have a dramatic effect on loss of gate sales and isnt in the best interests of the sport nor the promoters of it . Of course there is the right of appeal at a cost of $2000 ,more than the average Judge would impose as a fine in the District court on a tap on the shoulder assault charge ,SNZ at its best ,why does the sport bother with such a circus .. Unsure the why the delay as the Speedway NZ now have fixed penalties in place (so there could only be one outcome as the whole reason for fixed penalties is to ensure all competitors are treated the same when breaching rules at all SNZ controlled tracks), but the Speedway NZ Board were meeting in Wellington on Wednesday. This is the ruling that has been brought into play. M7-7-3 Physical Abuse Grading Making physical contact with another person 22 Day Stand Down $200 Fine Pushing or Shoving another person 22 Day Stand Down - 12 Month Probation $200 Fine Throwing a punch or injuring another person with an object 12 Month Stand Down - 12 Month Probation $500 Fine It appears that Andy who was the official that was tapped on the shoulder wrote a letter of support over the maters arising to the board that no further action to take place ,but now another official who was not subjected to any other contact other than mind your own business has taken the whole scenario to the board for what he claims is breaching the rules . It could be that this official has a grudge on his shoulder ,and now poor Andy will be on the receiving end of unwarranted public abuse .. |
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Post by percy on Nov 29, 2019 20:51:27 GMT 12
So why has it taken so long for the process of SNZ to take place ?? The recommended process is stated in the SNZ rule book. As the drivers rep wasn't in the area Step 3 could not be completed. Thus, instead of a penalty being applied on the night the incident was referred to the SNZ board to be heard at their next board meeting. As it happens that meeting was 27 days after the incident. STEP 1 Competitor breaks rule in book.
STEP 2 Offence witnessed by Steward, Referee, or reported to Steward by other Official.
STEP 3 The Steward calls together the Clerk of the Course and the Competitor's Representative and chairs a Protest Meeting. (All persons affected by or who may be affected by the outcome of the protest meeting, including the person against whom the protest was lodged must be given the opportunity to state their view to the Protest Committee). In the case of a racing incident the Referee must be interviewed by the Protest Committee.
STEP 4 If the offending competitor ADMITS or acknowledges actions to the Steward or Referee, that action will become a "MATTER OF FACT" The Steward will then take the appropriate action. NOTE: There will be no right of appeal for penalties imposed on "MATTERS OF FACT" acknowledged by both sides, except with leave of Steward or referee concerned.
STEP 5 If the offending competitor DENIES the actions the PROTEST will be considered by the PROTEST COMMITTEE. Their decision will be by majority vote and will be given by the Steward who will apply penalty where appropriate. NOTE: To facilitate the flow of a meeting the Protest Committee may elect to handle a dispute at the completion of the programme, EXCEPT in cases where the outcome of their decision may affect the starting position or results of other heats of a series on any ONE day. |
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Post by midway on Nov 29, 2019 21:50:28 GMT 12
So why has it taken so long for the process of SNZ to take place ?? The recommended process is stated in the SNZ rule book. As the drivers rep wasn't in the area Step 3 could not be completed. Thus, instead of a penalty being applied on the night the incident was referred to the SNZ board to be heard at their next board meeting. As it happens that meeting was 27 days after the incident. STEP 1 Competitor breaks rule in book.
STEP 2 Offence witnessed by Steward, Referee, or reported to Steward by other Official.
STEP 3 The Steward calls together the Clerk of the Course and the Competitor's Representative and chairs a Protest Meeting. (All persons affected by or who may be affected by the outcome of the protest meeting, including the person against whom the protest was lodged must be given the opportunity to state their view to the Protest Committee). In the case of a racing incident the Referee must be interviewed by the Protest Committee.
STEP 4 If the offending competitor ADMITS or acknowledges actions to the Steward or Referee, that action will become a "MATTER OF FACT" The Steward will then take the appropriate action. NOTE: There will be no right of appeal for penalties imposed on "MATTERS OF FACT" acknowledged by both sides, except with leave of Steward or referee concerned.
STEP 5 If the offending competitor DENIES the actions the PROTEST will be considered by the PROTEST COMMITTEE. Their decision will be by majority vote and will be given by the Steward who will apply penalty where appropriate. NOTE: To facilitate the flow of a meeting the Protest Committee may elect to handle a dispute at the completion of the programme, EXCEPT in cases where the outcome of their decision may affect the starting position or results of other heats of a series on any ONE day.So it was a recommendation on behalf of a speedway official ,that on the night called Pickens into his office over this matter ,but the concerning part is that the official that was subjected to a tap on the shoulder played no part in any evidence on the mater arising and there fore wrote a letter to the board with a explanation that didnt fit the crime . |
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Post by percy on Nov 29, 2019 22:00:35 GMT 12
It's an interesting point Midway.
There is no confirmation either way if the track official who reported the incident and the track official who was poked are the same person (or not). The way the SNZ press release is written I agree with your sentiment that they are two separate people but I can't be absolutely sure.
Problem with the letter to the board is it becomes irrelevant once Pickens admitted guilt. Once he did that the hearing was effectively over as under the fixed penalties regime there was only going to be one outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 4:37:20 GMT 12
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 6:23:32 GMT 12
STEP 4 If the offending competitor ADMITS or acknowledges actions to the Steward or Referee, that action will become a "MATTER OF FACT" The Steward will then take the appropriate action. NOTE: There will be no right of appeal for penalties imposed on "MATTERS OF FACT" acknowledged by both sides, except with leave of Steward or referee concerned.
Heads up fellow posters. This incident should alert you to an extremely important point. Something that may even help keep you from being wrongly deprived of your liberty in certain circumstances. And that point is - if you are ever accused of a crime - SHUT THE F##K UP!
Michael Picken's is guilty not because he has been proven guilty, but because he made the foolish mistake that most ignorant people make, namely he opened his BIG MOUTH. In other words he self incriminated himself. This is why if you are arrested by the New Zealand Police for an alleged crime they are required under the NZ Bill of Rights to a read you a 'Rights Caution' before they try and trick talk you into making a statement. 'You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to speak to a lawyer', etc. Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES AGREE TO TALK OR GIVE A STATEMENT. And that sage advice applies even if you are innocent. Below is a humorous one minute ''Tip of the day' from 'The US Pot Brothers' lawyers in relation to advice when the cops pull you over for suspected DUI..LOL (PS Don't click on the YouTube link below if you don't like hearing the "F##K" word) SHUT THE F##K UP FRIDAY! |
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Post by tank11 on Nov 30, 2019 7:15:04 GMT 12
It's an interesting point Midway. There is no confirmation either way if the track official who reported the incident and the track official who was poked are the same person (or not). The way the SNZ press release is written I agree with your sentiment that they are two separate people but I can't be absolutely sure. Problem with the letter to the board is it becomes irrelevant once Pickens admitted guilt. Once he did that the hearing was effectively over as under the fixed penalties regime there was only going to be one outcome. LOL, how many times did his vehicle catch fire? Or did he just run around "poking" people?  |
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Post by graemeh on Nov 30, 2019 7:34:07 GMT 12
It's an interesting point Midway. There is no confirmation either way if the track official who reported the incident and the track official who was poked are the same person (or not). The way the SNZ press release is written I agree with your sentiment that they are two separate people but I can't be absolutely sure. Problem with the letter to the board is it becomes irrelevant once Pickens admitted guilt. Once he did that the hearing was effectively over as under the fixed penalties regime there was only going to be one outcome. And as Step 4 in the rule book states: STEP 4 If the offending competitor ADMITS or acknowledges actions to the Steward or Referee, that action will become a "MATTER OF FACT" The Steward will then take the appropriate action. NOTE: There will be no right of appeal for penalties imposed on "MATTERS OF FACT" acknowledged by both sides, except with leave of Steward or referee concerned. Dont see him having any grounds for an appeal to be honest. Lesser similar actions by competitors in other sporting codes have also been suspended many times in the past |
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Post by brettgrace on Nov 30, 2019 9:51:06 GMT 12
I was gonna ask the same thing. I'll also ask since there is no grounds for appeal and no monetary figure mentioned where the $2k appeal fee comes from? If it's an arbitrary amount they've just made up that needs looking into. percy is there a fixed cost for appeals in that dreary tome of theirs? |
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