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Post by nogrip-31gm on Mar 7, 2020 10:20:26 GMT 12
Hi team,
Long time no post.
Last night I took a group of friends along to akl teams Nats.
We were walking in behind a group of rebels supporters with their team flags etc. The confederate flag.
The group I was with are relatively fresh to speedway and are new to teams.
Fair to say that they were actually quite horrified at seeing the flag waved with the meaning behind it. Also heard negative comments from other passers by.
I'm not wanting to start a s**t fight.
Id love to hear people's views on the use of the flag, and if it would be wise to modify it to a version that wouldn't cause offence?
I would hate to see new speedway viewers put off by seeing this.
Thoughts??
Regards
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Post by orapiuwharf on Mar 7, 2020 10:37:52 GMT 12
2 things missing last night we all noticed.
The Rotorua flag not being waved with the team.
No Waikato team or cow bells.
Great Saloon racing last night.
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Post by graemeh on Mar 7, 2020 10:46:55 GMT 12
I would prefer people that are that are "so easily offended" stay at home. There is so much to be offended about in this world, that for their own mental well-being, its in their own best interest. Next it will be the Kihikihi Crusaders.
I think speedway will survive their non-attendance.
I'm sure the Rebels name wasn't picked due to any issue some self righteous Americans have.
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Post by hienekenno1 on Mar 7, 2020 11:00:18 GMT 12
I've always thought the reaction Nick Vallance would get driving his rebel flag bus around in America lol but yes the rebel flag is part of stockcar history in nz.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 12:30:03 GMT 12
If they went to an Indian cultural hall or hindu temple would they get all pissy at the Swastikas plastered around the place, or would they just assume the same symbol has a different meaning to what they thought it means? What has happened with the Confederate battle flag and other confederacy artifacts in some parts of the USA is pretty upsetting to me, and I have my own views on why it's happening. But it does prove that in any major conflict, it is definitely those who are victorious who get to write the history. I have zero time for anyone who waves the flag simply with the intention of causing offense. I have the same tolerance of those who take offence when clearly none is intended. Out of interest I wonder if any of the snowflakes who were so offended have ever called or referred to an American as a Yank or Yankee? Cause to a certain section of those from the south could be very offended, if of course they chose to be. Fair to say that they were actually quite horrified at seeing the flag waved with the meaning behind it. I'm not wanting to start a s**t fight. Now I don't want to start a sh!t fight either (I would never do that 😜) but do you wish to share what their interpretation of what the "meaning" of it is? In fact I wonder if they even know what the flag is actually called? |
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Post by hbhornets on Mar 7, 2020 13:33:09 GMT 12
Out of interest. I'm pretty sure the rebels from starwars used to fly this flag back in the late 70s early 80s when the first movies where released. Back when the first team champs were held. Now times are changing. The smell of meat is offensive to a passing vegan jogger. Where does the line stand?
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Post by NZ Sauber on Mar 7, 2020 13:33:13 GMT 12
I'd prefer the confederate flag wasn't used in speedway. Rightly or wrongly to a modern audience it is something closely tied to the white supremacy movement, and doesn't feel like it represents a culturally rich place like Rotorua very well. I'm still thrilled to see the Rebels team performing so well last night, and wish them the very best of luck for tonight and beyond.
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Post by orapiuwharf on Mar 7, 2020 14:05:05 GMT 12
Dukes of Hazzard the General Lee had it on the roof. A extremely important part of motoring history. The General Lee and Night Rider 2 of the most famous cars ever on TV
So what is your alternative. Only allowing vegan food at speedway. Solar powered race cars only. Banning speedway from cities. Stopping people from enjoying themselves.
Leave speedway alone. I like speedway as it is apart from the empty closed grandstand that the Vegan solar powered council have closed for use and wont replace.
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Post by tiroto on Mar 7, 2020 14:24:25 GMT 12
I was brought up going to Paradise Valley as a kid with lots of fantastic memories. Love teams racing and the Rebels and Rascals.
I’m not sure who initiated the confederate flag as the Rebel/Rascals flag and when it was first used.
I had a go at raising this issue a few years back on this forum. Some may remember this.
My concern back then and is still the same is the flag by some is a symbol associated with historical revisionism and glorification of the American Civil War (i.e. the Lost Cause myth), racism, slavery, segregation and white supremacy.
I don’t support the confederate flag. I just think that ultimately the flag is a barrier for wider appeal beyond the Rebels/Rascals.
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Post by beachboy on Mar 7, 2020 19:32:41 GMT 12
Would certainty be interesting to hear from someone who knows some History at the Roturua club as to why they decided to use this flag in support of the Rebels team and the meaning behind it.
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zac
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Post by zac on Mar 7, 2020 21:58:49 GMT 12
Pretty interesting topic and seems like a lot of polarised views on it. Personally I think the world moves on and we need to move with it. Slavery used to be accepted, racism used to be accepted, and the confederate flag on a car used to be accepted, but not anymore. Interestingly I had a Rotorua Rebels cap that I took to America 2 years ago - it didn't even occur to me what the meaning was, because to me it was just a speedway team, but I learned very quickly (I wasn't wearing it when I went to the civil rights museum !).
In this country we don't have many Americans, and even less of them in speedway, so why should we care? Well, they don't have many Maori's in America either but we still get uptight as a country when other nations use Maori words, symbols, or tattoos so it seems reasonable (to me) that we can't have it both ways - either nations need to respect each others history, or they don't. It doesn't mean we have to "Only allow vegan food at speedway" it just means we realise American symbols of supporting slavery and white supremacy probably don't have a place in New Zealand Speedway.
It's not like the Rotorua Rebels have been using that flag since before the American Civil War - it's obviously just copied from them at some stage.
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Post by freaker on Mar 7, 2020 22:21:01 GMT 12
If they went to an Indian cultural hall or hindu temple would they get all pissy at the Swastikas plastered around the place, or would they just assume the same symbol has a different meaning to what they thought it means? What has happened with the Confederate battle flag and other confederacy artifacts in some parts of the USA is pretty upsetting to me, and I have my own views on why it's happening. But it does prove that in any major conflict, it is definitely those who are victorious who get to write the history. I have zero time for anyone who waves the flag simply with the intention of causing offense. I have the same tolerance of those who take offence when clearly none is intended. Out of interest I wonder if any of the snowflakes who were so offended have ever called or referred to an American as a Yank or Yankee? Cause to a certain section of those from the south could be very offended, if of course they chose to be. Fair to say that they were actually quite horrified at seeing the flag waved with the meaning behind it. I'm not wanting to start a s**t fight. Now I don't want to start a sh!t fight either (I would never do that 😜) but do you wish to share what their interpretation of what the "meaning" of it is? In fact I wonder if they even know what the flag is actually called? Do you read the stuff you write? The comparison to the Hindu use of a Swastika isn't the same due to them using it before the Nazis. The Hindus didn't pick the Swastika because they're Anti Semitic, they chose it before the Nazi party was even created. Though within speedway, obviously the Civil War happened before the Rebels chose their gimmick. The Rebels not only chose to directly copy the flag, they also directly took the name. I'm not personally offended by them but if you can't see why people are, I really don't think you'll ever understand. Reading your last sentence gave me a good little laugh, individuals interpretation of a Rebel Flag doesn't take away it's history and the stuff that happened under it. |
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Post by beachboy on Mar 8, 2020 7:17:32 GMT 12
Ramjam whats the name of the New York baseball team?
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Post by graemeh on Mar 8, 2020 7:37:54 GMT 12
The probable reason initially for the name "Rotorua Rebels" is something called Alliteration.
Alliteration means: "the occurrence of the same letter or sound at the beginning of adjacent or closely connected words." A common occurrence when sport teams are named.
At the time nobody dissected everything to the nth degree like todays social warriors. Probably if naming a new team these days Rebels may not have been chosen and the flag not used but it now has its own history relating to Stockcar racing in NZ. The word rebel will always be associated with an outlaw element in Automotive history and to draw parallels to the American Civil war is just nit-picking in my opinion.
In general people are just sick of those "morally offended" people twisting innocent things in everyday life to be something its not, particularly led by politicians and some media who, when you analyse them closely are the biggest hypocrites of all (Green Party / Fossil fuels / Global warming).
The preaching way they go about getting their message out is just getting the average persons back up (Greta Thunberg) and creates more division than the particular issue ever caused.
Free speech and expression is only allowed by the offended minority it seems these days.
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Post by orapiuwharf on Mar 8, 2020 13:39:04 GMT 12
Exactly.
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Post by nogrip-31gm on Mar 8, 2020 13:43:12 GMT 12
Would it be acceptable to have a team with the swastika?
Imagine yourself from a non speedway fan looking in from the outside.
To say that speedway is better off without these people who got offended is so backwards for the sport.
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Post by Tapped on Mar 8, 2020 15:41:06 GMT 12
Its too easy for people to claim that they are offended these days.
It seems everyone wants to get offended by something or somejuan, so they can get their 15mins of attention for the day.
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Post by tiroto on Mar 8, 2020 16:19:55 GMT 12
Certainly not offended. I’ve supported Rebels/Rascals in past and always will regardless of whether they use the flag or not.
Free speech as in this speedway forum is hugely important but in today’s society free speech is under threat by others who get offended and then label you as a means to shut down your viewpoint.
I don’t know the context given for the use of the flag. I suspect it has nothing to do with American history but regardless timing is everything.
What this discussion has created is the very reason why it’s time to discuss the possibility of simply ditching the flag.
Rotorua Rebels - love the name just the flag!
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Post by beachboy on Mar 8, 2020 16:56:51 GMT 12
The probable reason initially for the name "Rotorua Rebels" is something called Alliteration. Alliteration means: "the occurrence of the same letter or sound at the beginning of adjacent or closely connected words." A common occurrence when sport teams are named. At the time nobody dissected everything to the nth degree like todays social warriors. Probably if naming a new team these days Rebels may not have been chosen and the flag not used but it now has its own history relating to Stockcar racing in NZ. The word rebel will always be associated with an outlaw element in Automotive history and to draw parallels to the American Civil war is just nit-picking in my opinion. In general people are just sick of those "morally offended" people twisting innocent things in everyday life to be something its not, particularly led by politicians and some media who, when you analyse them closely are the biggest hypocrites of all (Green Party / Fossil fuels / Global warming). The preaching way they go about getting their message out is just getting the average persons back up (Greta Thunberg) and creates more division than the particular issue ever caused. Free speech and expression is only allowed by the offended minority it seems these days. The name Rebel is not the problem or issue here, people are not "nit-picking" about the name "rebel" being used. It is the confederate smoke that is the issue as it is a potent symbol of slavery and white supremacy. |
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Post by graemeh on Mar 8, 2020 17:57:03 GMT 12
The probable reason initially for the name "Rotorua Rebels" is something called Alliteration. Alliteration means: "the occurrence of the same letter or sound at the beginning of adjacent or closely connected words." A common occurrence when sport teams are named. At the time nobody dissected everything to the nth degree like todays social warriors. Probably if naming a new team these days Rebels may not have been chosen and the flag not used but it now has its own history relating to Stockcar racing in NZ. The word rebel will always be associated with an outlaw element in Automotive history and to draw parallels to the American Civil war is just nit-picking in my opinion. In general people are just sick of those "morally offended" people twisting innocent things in everyday life to be something its not, particularly led by politicians and some media who, when you analyse them closely are the biggest hypocrites of all (Green Party / Fossil fuels / Global warming). The preaching way they go about getting their message out is just getting the average persons back up (Greta Thunberg) and creates more division than the particular issue ever caused. Free speech and expression is only allowed by the offended minority it seems these days. The name Rebel is not the problem or issue here, people are not "nit-picking" about the name "rebel" being used. It is the confederate smoke that is the issue as it is a potent symbol of slavery and white supremacy. I'm offended by your name, time to change it to "beachgendernonspecific"  |
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