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Post by BarryB on Feb 19, 2021 22:16:32 GMT 12
Just saw the replay - 15p undoubtedly "wins the race". I've put that in inverted commas because I have to check the rule book to see what it says about passing under the chequered flag. At the first stoppage for 9a, 15p appears to be in fourth around half a lap down. As the race resumes he moves quite quickly into second place, stalking Peat for the second half of the race. He makes the winning pass on the final lap after 8a contacts another car. In my mind this is clear - 15p is the first car to complete 10 laps. I tend to agree. I couldn't really place the 15p under the red flag for the 9a, but the other camera shots showed me most/all of the places he wasn't. The repositioning of the cars was handled badly, with 3 cars (2 x A and 1 x P) being moved forward over the start/finish line, and one or two moved from past the start/finish line to back behind it. That was at least 4-5 cars (out of 8) that needed to be manually moved as far as their lap count went on the ELS. It appears this wasn't done correctly. I didn't notice the 8a attacking in T4 after the chequered flag, but as he was involved in the 15p rollover as well I wonder whether he was counting his laps and realised he hadn't done his 10 laps when a flag dropped on him. He may have thought it was the white? Even the graphics that came up after the race (which are connected to the ELS) were all over the place at the end of the race, so who knows. Barry B |
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Post by percy on Feb 19, 2021 22:25:42 GMT 12
At the time of the 9a stoppage, 15p is at the end of the back straight/entrance to turn 3.
I think the reason for the confusion is 8a is over the start/finish line at the time of the red but then gets moved behind the line. 3nz completely missed the red, continued around over the start/finish line and is then moved forward (but in reality back) to halfway through turn 3/4. Both should have been deducted a lap on the ELS but neither were.
On the 8a/45a incident when you watch the stream I can understand how it happened. The flagman made a conscious effort not to throw the flag on 15p but the problem was 8a and 45a were right behind 15p. The flagman drops the flag as 8a and 45a pass over the start/finish line. It would be great to hear from the drivers but from what I've seen on the live stream it would not surprise me if neither driver saw the flag. I don't know how drivers can be expected to know the race has finished when the chequered flag is thrown on them, not in front of them.
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Post by scooterman on Feb 19, 2021 22:52:13 GMT 12
so after all the problems with WELLINGTON do we know who has gone thru for tomorrow
fo tomorrow nite
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Post by my2cents on Feb 19, 2021 22:59:07 GMT 12
So who were the officials. The same as palmy??
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Post by keith655 on Feb 19, 2021 23:37:06 GMT 12
Qualifying night Highlights
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Post by Palmyfan4ever on Feb 20, 2021 0:54:17 GMT 12
8a attacked 667p after turn 4, almost a full lap after the flag. I think the thoughts on where 15p dropped a lap on livelaps is correct, only way short of transponder failure Nothing on the replay showed 15p dropping a lap but then dare I say the camera work wasnt really looking where we wanted it be. My gut feeling is the officials stuffed up the moment they started moving all those cars about the place. Might have to wait for petrol fumes video. My thing here is, these two cars attacked him supposedly a lap down and took him out effecting the race outcome, they get excluded as punishment, however luke no longer races to try for the flag giving Auckland the win anyway. major effect on the outcome, this should be a team exclusion when they effect the race outcome. Luke wasnt down a lap and if continued could have proceeded to win.... let alone all the rubbish over whether he had already crossed or not. if you were there anyway you would know he wasnt a lap down in anyway. thier method of realigning the cars screwed it up. |
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Post by Palmyfan4ever on Feb 20, 2021 0:58:47 GMT 12
So who were the officials. The same as palmy?? They havent listed the actual officials for the event in the program but they will have thier top stewards but the event is run by Speedway New Zealand so there will be officials also from there in the booth as well making the calls. They are also at the PN event even if it is a PN run event. |
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Post by hercules on Feb 20, 2021 1:17:00 GMT 12
On welly website it has the top 8 teams and beside Auckland in tier 1 and palmy in tier 2 it has TBC, so I’d say this race is still being discussed and protested.
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Post by BarryB on Feb 20, 2021 2:56:26 GMT 12
On welly website it has the top 8 teams and beside Auckland in tier 1 and palmy in tier 2 it has TBC, so I’d say this race is still being discussed and protested. Watching Keith655's video above, the attack on 15p certainly isn't the attack of drivers that know they've already taken the chequered flag. It's the attack of two drivers that know 15p has just taken the lead and know they're almost out of laps. I'd say no driver has completed 10 laps and for any driver that counts laps they'd have come undone in this one. But you're also taught to race to the flag, whatever else happens.......but you also need to be able to see the flags (see Percy's post above). There's no result that will be fair in this case, other than to re-run the race. And even that's unfair as those two teams would have to do one extra race on Saturday night. The fairest way would probably be a 4-lap run-off, two cars per team, the winner going into Tier 1, the loser Tier 2. The rules certainly won't suggest that, but the rules have been totally undone by the lap scoring errors in this case. If the run-off was used, Auckland should also get their two drivers back as the race that got them excluded would no longer be considered a race. By the book? No way. But this was a race that falls outside of the rule book, and a sportsmanlike decision might be the best decision. Barry B |
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Post by BarryB on Feb 20, 2021 3:03:38 GMT 12
On welly website it has the top 8 teams and beside Auckland in tier 1 and palmy in tier 2 it has TBC, so I’d say this race is still being discussed and protested. No protests in teams racing. Barry B |
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dw
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by dw on Feb 20, 2021 4:07:32 GMT 12
Issue here is the commentators stated the result was official 100 points to 65 to Auckland after the referees had deliberated after lengthy appeals. The other issue as someone has pointed out is the flag was dropped on an Auckland car not the tank ( right in front of me) as they crossed the line with the tank in front of the Auckland car. I remember a-smack toque edition where Lyall Rumney stating he lost the race due to the checked flag not been dropped on him even though he took the white flag the lap before. I guess rules may have changed. A runoff might be a solution
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Post by nottosure on Feb 20, 2021 5:52:56 GMT 12
The Auckland vs Pumas race sounds like a tricky situation to solve for everyone.
Both are Robertson Promotion tracks.
Maybe he could sort it by deciding which team has the best chance to win it (remembering Auckland are 2 drivers down) and which track would make the most profit hosting it should they win it. I'm guessing he'd lean toward the Pumas.
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Post by Admin on Feb 20, 2021 6:33:18 GMT 12
I think the two drivers should be reinstated and the win overturned in favour of 15p.
SNZ stuffed the race up, stuff happens but in the interests of natural justice, which all the drivers are entitled to, SNZ need make it right.
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Post by davcarm on Feb 20, 2021 7:06:53 GMT 12
At the track and 15p definitely won that race. He chased them down and he also knew he'd won as he chased him start to finish. once crossing the line he attempted to get to the infield but got punted by the Auckland cars effectively pushing him back out to the track. The chequered flag dropped for the Auckland car due to the error in electronic lap scoring but 15p had taken the lead. What I will say is it must be hard as hell for drivers to see the white flag or chequered as the starter drops it when they're just about underneath it.
P definitely won that race and majority of experienced stockcar followers / fans it was clear as day to see.
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Post by 00crewchief00 on Feb 20, 2021 7:13:13 GMT 12
It also shows how the fixed penalties don't always work out, especially trying to make a black and white call on something from the grey area. Teams racing is full of tunnel vision/heat of the moment happenings.
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Post by Tapped on Feb 20, 2021 7:19:30 GMT 12
At the track and 15p definitely won that race. He chased them down and he also knew he'd won as he chased him start to finish. once crossing the line he attempted to get to the infield but got punted by the Auckland cars effectively pushing him back out to the track. The chequered flag dropped for the Auckland car due to the error in electronic lap scoring but 15p had taken the lead. What I will say is it must be hard as hell for drivers to see the white flag or chequered as the starter drops it when they're just about underneath it. P definitely won that race and majority of experienced stockcar followers / fans it was clear as day to see. 15p was a lap down, was lapped on lap 2or 3. He unlapped himself toward the end to get on the lead lap again but never passed the leader again to actually lead the race. On another note. It seems magors is on a gold mine and we have an abundance of lapscorers and refs who need to make themselves available tonight. |
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Post by Geoff public on Feb 20, 2021 7:26:54 GMT 12
I am not blaming the flag person in any way, but the flag itself is the determining factor, NOT laps completed.
The most clear-cut example of this is John Bookers North Island title at the old Baypark.
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Post by Admin on Feb 20, 2021 7:50:50 GMT 12
At the track and 15p definitely won that race. He chased them down and he also knew he'd won as he chased him start to finish. once crossing the line he attempted to get to the infield but got punted by the Auckland cars effectively pushing him back out to the track. The chequered flag dropped for the Auckland car due to the error in electronic lap scoring but 15p had taken the lead. What I will say is it must be hard as hell for drivers to see the white flag or chequered as the starter drops it when they're just about underneath it. P definitely won that race and majority of experienced stockcar followers / fans it was clear as day to see. 15p was a lap down, was lapped on lap 2or 3. He unlapped himself toward the end to get on the lead lap again but never passed the leader again to actually lead the race. On another note. It seems magors is on a gold mine and we have an abundance of lapscorers and refs who need to make themselves available tonight. I assume you've just put your own hand up for tonight then lol |
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cobbya
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by cobbya on Feb 20, 2021 8:35:15 GMT 12
Apart from all the discussion on the 1st race of the night ,would be interested in thoughts on the racing overall ,I found it all a bit underwhelming ,I was impressed with the Waikato Raiders and their semi final against Canterbury will be good ,but I dont know if its worth buying the stream again tonight.
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Post by hienekenno1 on Feb 20, 2021 8:48:23 GMT 12
Go the Waikato Raiders, also don't mind the short drive down to Huntly next year lol.
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