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Post by hbhornets on Feb 20, 2021 8:56:40 GMT 12
Apart from all the discussion on the 1st race of the night ,would be interested in thoughts on the racing overall ,I found it all a bit underwhelming ,I was impressed with the Waikato Raiders and their semi final against Canterbury will be good ,but I dont know if its worth buying the stream again tonight. Underwhelming becuase of the vast differences between the teams skill and machines. Most even group was rotorua, huntly, and meeanee. Every other group followed the script. Baypark were impressive. Even through well beaten were in both races until late. And greymouth lacked experience but have what it takes to be something. That tank. What was he thinking. And thats what quilfying should be. One sided battles that let the better teams rise to thw top. So night two. Every race is gonna hard and rough. |
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Post by John W. on Feb 20, 2021 9:22:36 GMT 12
Some results have been posted on Wellington Speedway Facebook page. There is a reply about race 1 results as follows Wellington Family Speedway As it stands currently its like this, if Speedway New Zealand has any further developments we will keep everyone in the loop Will try and link |
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Post by beachboy on Feb 20, 2021 9:25:27 GMT 12
The Rees support truck unable to fix the Gizzy cars🤷♂️😏
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Post by d1dazza on Feb 20, 2021 9:39:11 GMT 12
Apart from all the discussion on the 1st race of the night ,would be interested in thoughts on the racing overall ,I found it all a bit underwhelming ,I was impressed with the Waikato Raiders and their semi final against Canterbury will be good ,but I dont know if its worth buying the stream again tonight. Underwhelming becuase of the vast differences between the teams skill and machines. Most even group was rotorua, huntly, and meeanee. Every other group followed the script. Baypark were impressive. Even through well beaten were in both races until late. And greymouth lacked experience but have what it takes to be something. That tank. What was he thinking. And thats what quilfying should be. One sided battles that let the better teams rise to thw top. So night two. Every race is gonna hard and rough. in saying that by rights stratford are the best team in the gm,c,s group. But they still went down to a determined canterbury team. I thought racing was good plenty of biffo and plenty of cars on there lids |
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Post by hbhornets on Feb 20, 2021 9:47:50 GMT 12
Underwhelming becuase of the vast differences between the teams skill and machines. Most even group was rotorua, huntly, and meeanee. Every other group followed the script. Baypark were impressive. Even through well beaten were in both races until late. And greymouth lacked experience but have what it takes to be something. That tank. What was he thinking. And thats what quilfying should be. One sided battles that let the better teams rise to thw top. So night two. Every race is gonna hard and rough. in saying that by rights stratford are the best team in the gm,c,s group. But they still went down to a determined canterbury team. I thought racing was good plenty of biffo and plenty of cars on there lids What i disagree. That wasnt a suprise. Harley ribb even sat that race out. Dan mcanally has been stirring up streetstock for a long time. Hes a very got teams racer. And showed his skill. 151 was very impressive at the new zealands. Jay holtam has been racing a long time. And 2nz is about the best driver in new zealand for the last three years. That team has what it takes to win. Up against a stratford team that i rate 3 of the 5 drivers. 4 vs 3 Christchurch win most of the time. And thats excalty how it played out. 17s and 91s have never done anything i have gone wow you have what it takes. So buy rights of last they were but on paper christchurch far stronger. And thats the way it played out |
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Post by wildcatsfan on Feb 20, 2021 9:55:51 GMT 12
"in saying that by rights stratford are the best team in the gm,c,s group" - SAY WHAT!!!! You must be joking!! What rights exactly are you referring to??
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Post by BarryB on Feb 20, 2021 10:12:49 GMT 12
At the track and 15p definitely won that race. He chased them down and he also knew he'd won as he chased him start to finish. once crossing the line he attempted to get to the infield but got punted by the Auckland cars effectively pushing him back out to the track. The chequered flag dropped for the Auckland car due to the error in electronic lap scoring but 15p had taken the lead. What I will say is it must be hard as hell for drivers to see the white flag or chequered as the starter drops it when they're just about underneath it. P definitely won that race and majority of experienced stockcar followers / fans it was clear as day to see. 15p was a lap down, was lapped on lap 2or 3. He unlapped himself toward the end to get on the lead lap again but never passed the leader again to actually lead the race. On another note. It seems magors is on a gold mine and we have an abundance of lapscorers and refs who need to make themselves available tonight. So many others have stated 15p definitely never went a lap down, and you're just as sure he did in fact go a lap down. I'm assuming this comes about as the cars that in actuality moved forward to effectively move backwards confused the heck out of everybody, including the ELS. After that red light I doubt anybody really knew accurately where everybody was again. The race should be declared null and void. |
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Post by Geoff public on Feb 20, 2021 10:23:24 GMT 12
15p was a lap down, was lapped on lap 2or 3. He unlapped himself toward the end to get on the lead lap again but never passed the leader again to actually lead the race. On another note. It seems magors is on a gold mine and we have an abundance of lapscorers and refs who need to make themselves available tonight. So many others have stated 15p definitely never went a lap down, and you're just as sure he did in fact go a lap down. I'm assuming this comes about as the cars that in actuality moved forward to effectively move backwards confused the heck out of everybody, including the ELS. After that red light I doubt anybody really knew accurately where everybody was again. The race should be declared null and void. Barry, are you really suggesting we void a race in SNZ titles where there are inconsistencies between the flag and the actual laps done? This isn't the 1st and won't be the last. Does that mean in this case we only have 3 teams in the final? |
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Post by percy on Feb 20, 2021 10:32:33 GMT 12
An explanation of what happened copied from Facebook from an individual who appears to be operating the ELS
"From ELS point of view. When it went red Luke was the only one who stopped and didn't pass the loop system. Under a red we only look to those who are moved back pass the loop and manage that which happened when Tye got moved backwards. We were unaware and not told that the front cars were moved forward on the back straight to where Luke stopped. This caused everyone else to lap Luke under red. As ELS we apologize for that, however we are unable to change results without confirmation from SNZ. One of those situations."
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Post by BarryB on Feb 20, 2021 11:01:49 GMT 12
So many others have stated 15p definitely never went a lap down, and you're just as sure he did in fact go a lap down. I'm assuming this comes about as the cars that in actuality moved forward to effectively move backwards confused the heck out of everybody, including the ELS. After that red light I doubt anybody really knew accurately where everybody was again. The race should be declared null and void. Barry, are you really suggesting we void a race in SNZ titles where there are inconsistencies between the flag and the actual laps done? This isn't the 1st and won't be the last. Does that mean in this case we only have 3 teams in the final? There was no precedent for what happened with the big pileup at this season's NZ Champs at Rotorua. All drivers were told to turn off their engines and if they needed a push start to re-fire they would receive one. This is in direct contradiction to the rules, but was a decision made by SNZ for the betterment of the championship under an unusual set of circumstances. I believe that can be done again here. At the moment both teams are suffering by things that were really out of their control. Due to mistakes made by others their race became somewhat of a farce. I feel it (the option of a run-off) should at least be put to the teams in a bid to resolve what appears to be an impasse. |
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Post by Tapped on Feb 20, 2021 11:02:14 GMT 12
15p was a lap down, was lapped on lap 2or 3. He unlapped himself toward the end to get on the lead lap again but never passed the leader again to actually lead the race. On another note. It seems magors is on a gold mine and we have an abundance of lapscorers and refs who need to make themselves available tonight. So many others have stated 15p definitely never went a lap down, and you're just as sure he did in fact go a lap down. I'm assuming this comes about as the cars that in actuality moved forward to effectively move backwards confused the heck out of everybody, including the ELS. After that red light I doubt anybody really knew accurately where everybody was again. The race should be declared null and void. 15p got up at the start and turn 1. 172p and 667p passed him, putting him a lap down. he managed to pass 172p and 667P when they got caught up with two A cars. but he never passed the lead again. |
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Post by Tapped on Feb 20, 2021 11:04:58 GMT 12
15p was a lap down, was lapped on lap 2or 3. He unlapped himself toward the end to get on the lead lap again but never passed the leader again to actually lead the race. On another note. It seems magors is on a gold mine and we have an abundance of lapscorers and refs who need to make themselves available tonight. I assume you've just put your own hand up for tonight then lol Happily. after 20 years reffing league and boxing matches, i've spent the last 5 years coaching said referees. will lend my experience, i'll save you a seat Gordy. |
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Post by BarryB on Feb 20, 2021 11:07:48 GMT 12
Issue here is the commentators stated the result was official 100 points to 65 to Auckland after the referees had deliberated after lengthy appeals. The other issue as someone has pointed out is the flag was dropped on an Auckland car not the tank ( right in front of me) as they crossed the line with the tank in front of the Auckland car. I remember a-smack toque edition where Lyall Rumney stating he lost the race due to the checked flag not been dropped on him even though he took the white flag the lap before. I guess rules may have changed. A runoff might be a solution I don't know about Lyall Rumney, but 96m Shane Anderson lost a NI title at the old Baypark when he saw the white flag, did one more lap to pass under the flag stand one last time before pulling infield. Unfortunately for Dak he didn't notice the second flag was still the white one. The flag man got confused when other cars at the head of the field had been taken out on the last lap, and didn't get the chequered flag out in time. No ELS screen to refer to in those days. Anderson was given a DNF and John Booker got the trophy. |
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Post by Tapped on Feb 20, 2021 11:21:34 GMT 12
Issue here is the commentators stated the result was official 100 points to 65 to Auckland after the referees had deliberated after lengthy appeals. The other issue as someone has pointed out is the flag was dropped on an Auckland car not the tank ( right in front of me) as they crossed the line with the tank in front of the Auckland car. I remember a-smack toque edition where Lyall Rumney stating he lost the race due to the checked flag not been dropped on him even though he took the white flag the lap before. I guess rules may have changed. A runoff might be a solution I don't know about Lyall Rumney, but 96m Shane Anderson lost a NI title at the old Baypark when he saw the white flag, did one more lap to pass under the flag stand one last time before pulling infield. Unfortunately for Dak he didn't notice the second flag was still the white one. The flag man got confused when other cars at the head of the field had been taken out on the last lap, and didn't get the chequered flag out in time. No ELS screen to refer to in those days. Anderson was given a DNF and John Booker got the trophy. Tim Savell's SuperStock book, he talks about finding a Video of the 96 champs in wellington that was good enough lapscore from. surely there will be footage from the pits to lapscore from, then we can get the bottom of it. |
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Post by BarryB on Feb 20, 2021 11:26:38 GMT 12
It's generally easier to lap score from a single static camera than a multi camera setup. I guess we'll see what appears in the coming days. Unless someone makes something available to SNZ today.
And it was the 1982/83 champs that was under discussion in Tim's book. The one won by Gary Parkes.
Barry B
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Post by d1dazza on Feb 20, 2021 11:34:59 GMT 12
"in saying that by rights stratford are the best team in the gm,c,s group" - SAY WHAT!!!! You must be joking!! What rights exactly are you referring to?? looking at their performance over last 3 to 4 years they have been one of the standout teams. Crushers have been average at best last few years. |
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Post by percy on Feb 20, 2021 11:44:13 GMT 12
According to the 772p facebook page the SNZ officials appear to have acknowledged the lap-scoring error. But fixing it is harder than you might think.
Finish of Race
R12-4-65 A race is not finished until the chequered flag is displayed, regardless of the number of laps run.
R12-4-66 The vehicle must cross the finish-line and receive the chequered flag to be deemed to have finished the race.
R12-4-67 When a competitor has received the chequered flag they will take action to avoid all other cars until the yellow
lights are shown. They may not provide assistance to team mates who have not crossed the line.
R12-4-68 Racing will continue until all able vehicles have completed the lap they are on when the chequered flag is shown.
R12-4-69 When yellow lights are shown the race is over. Competitors are to return to the pits at a safe speed (after a victory
lap where appropriate).
R12-4-70 All placings are determined by the finishing order and number of laps completed by each vehicle as recorded by
the approved lap scoring system.
R12-4-71 Any vehicle not receiving the chequered flag is recorded as a DNF.
If we operate within the confines of the rulebook
- 15p can't be declared the winner of the race as he never passed under the chequered flag (R12-4-66)
- 15p can't be declared as a finisher as he did not receive the chequered flag (R12-4-71)
- Accepting the exclusion of 8a, 3nz has to be declared the winner as he was the best finisher to go under the chequered flag (R12-4-66)
It is a situation where the rulebook produces an absurd outcome.
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Post by screaminV8 on Feb 20, 2021 12:03:15 GMT 12
"in saying that by rights stratford are the best team in the gm,c,s group" - SAY WHAT!!!! You must be joking!! What rights exactly are you referring to?? looking at their performance over last 3 to 4 years they have been one of the standout teams. Crushers have been average at best last few years. 72s 32s and 33s are all extremely fast, can dish out the big hits, but most of all can read the race and know when to run/block/hit. 17s has plenty of teams racing experience and have seen him deliver some huge hits previously.(one at KK a few years ago springs to mind!). 91s is in a proven car, is very quick and showed at the NZs tier 2 heat 3 that he can swing the punches! So on paper, was easy to rate them over the Crushers. Ironic they were beaten by another S car for the C ! |
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Post by Tapped on Feb 20, 2021 12:07:44 GMT 12
It's generally easier to lap score from a single static camera than a multi camera setup. I guess we'll see what appears in the coming days. Unless someone makes something available to SNZ today. And it was the 1982/83 champs that was under discussion in Tim's book. The one won by Gary Parkes. Barry B i sit corrected, the book is on the table 6ft away and thus far too far away to warrant any movement to get it. A couple of positives from the night. 1. The Raiders. Raced well in both races, and were challenged alot more than the YoungGuns were. 2. the Grizzlies. Raced well. But undone in their first race, showed pace and potential. Give these guys more races, and who knows. 3. The Bulldogs. made a good fist of it. 4. the Maulers showed why its so important to score points - didnt win a race. But scored good points in their loses, to go thru to tier 2. 5. The big screen with the replays - how good. 6. The Crushers. raced well. Tonights H vs C should be huge, and prob worthy of a final its own right. lots more and could wax on all day, but need my nap. the drivers gave it their all - especially the Gladiators who came out with three cars against the YoungGuns. Looking forward to the supersaloons tonight as well. they've havent been seen around here this season yet. |
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Post by agraderacer on Feb 20, 2021 12:30:03 GMT 12
If we operate within the confines of the rulebook - 15p can't be declared the winner of the race as he never passed under the chequered flag (R12-4-66) - 15p can't be declared as a finisher as he did not receive the chequered flag (R12-4-71) - Accepting the exclusion of 8a, 3nz has to be declared the winner as he was the best finisher to go under the chequered flag (R12-4-66) It is a situation where the rulebook produces an absurd outcome. The key with not being able to overturn the result seems to be the first two points mentioned - that he didn't pass the chequered flag as shown on track. But the chequered flag came out to a car that only completed 9 laps, not 10, with the confirmation that the cars moved on that first red light were actually being moved back (by being moved forwards round the track). The first car to actually complete the race distance (9 laps) was 15p, narrowly ahead of 8a. |
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