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Post by tank11 on Mar 19, 2023 22:22:15 GMT 12
One could also argue that if less then 5% of stakeholders are replying to the subject in question then snz need to do more to promote their inquiry. I seem to remember the request for input regarding the efi use wasnt as clear cut as "should we allow efi to be used in stockcars from 2022 onwards" and read more as a request for technical input from experts on the subject. Not being an expert on the subject i closed the email and moved on only to find that they used that as justification to bring it in. The issue with efi has never been how hard it is to modify a standard road going car engine to be carb'd (as much as people like Tank11 and D1Dazza would like you to believe) because those same people are buying ford/holden to zf/hq bellhousings, custom pulley kits, custom offset diffs with chromoly axles, race engines, custom made trailing arms. the same companies they are buying those parts from are the same companies that would happily sell them the whole kit and caboodle to make a carb work on a previously efi'd engine. Nothing is standard anymore on these cars so the justification of using efi because its standard is redundant and ridiculous. The issue has always been the increased power output (which has now been proven-talk to any dyno shop thats dealt with efi stockcars), the uncontrolled tune-ability now that they are data logging their races and tapping on the keys in between races to improve their speed, the use of traction control, throttle position sensors and most of all the high pressure fuel PSI pumping through a full contact, rigid efi car. The street tyre on dirt acted as an unofficial power cap limiting the speeds the cars can go due to limited traction. 2 months ago snz were telling superstocks that this tyre was a fair alternative to the hooiser with comparable performance. Now they are telling us its allowed to be used in the stockcar class. so what is it? a hoosier comparable superstock tyre or a cooper cobra comparable stockcar tyre? It cant be both. The class simply doesnt need it and if you have seen anyone these passed two weeks using the superstock tyre you will understand why the class doesnt need it. the gulf between the top and the bottom has grown yearly to the point its becoming dangerous for the low end competitors. This tyre has increased that gulf significantly. LOL, I never said swapping to a carb was hard! I did say the EFI is an easier alternative, as most are that at the start. |
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Post by dandittmer on Mar 20, 2023 13:30:50 GMT 12
269s ran on them last night, and said the handling and speed has made a lot of difference, so much so he was in a run off for 2nd in the New Plymouth classic  . Zoe Hobbs did not need a run off ,she clocked up 10.97 ,in her race , I know there was lap scoring issues in the last ministock race |
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 21, 2023 16:55:19 GMT 12
Just back to the tyre thing, I wonder if the changing weather might be an influence sooner or later on the tyre discussion. They say that the weather is only going to get wetter, and this season bears witness to that, is it time to look at upgrading our tyre rules to suit changing weather patterns and more variable tracks. Changing tyre rules for some classes such as stockcars is better than seeing them not run and nights called off under iffy weather conditions,( where a decent tyre might see the meeting run and concluded) just thinking out loud
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 21, 2023 17:07:16 GMT 12
According to my engine builder the new efi set ups are blowing carb cars out of the water for power and being able to fine tune the engine at every rpm. I am yet to talk to an efi stockcar owner who has spent less on converting then what it would cost to run a top end carb set up. So please explain how that has made things cheaper? Top end Carb, hi rise and manifold 6k. |
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Post by stikshift87 on Mar 21, 2023 17:16:06 GMT 12
I've not long done the same thing, cost me $4k
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Post by mudman on Mar 21, 2023 17:30:46 GMT 12
According to my engine builder the new efi set ups are blowing carb cars out of the water for power and being able to fine tune the engine at every rpm. I am yet to talk to an efi stockcar owner who has spent less on converting then what it would cost to run a top end carb set up. So please explain how that has made things cheaper? Top end Carb, hi rise and manifold 6k. Compared to a top end efi system? If we are comparing top end carb it’s only fair to compare top end efi. Bottom end carb set up $50 for a flat falcon manifold, $150 for adapter plates $300 for a 350 Holley second hand on trademe throw in a $100 2 wire dizzy and you’re away for a grand total of $600 Apples with apples if you wouldn’t mind. |
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Post by mudman on Mar 21, 2023 17:44:54 GMT 12
Just back to the tyre thing, I wonder if the changing weather might be an influence sooner or later on the tyre discussion. They say that the weather is only going to get wetter, and this season bears witness to that, is it time to look at upgrading our tyre rules to suit changing weather patterns and more variable tracks. Changing tyre rules for some classes such as stockcars is better than seeing them not run and nights called off under iffy weather conditions,( where a decent tyre might see the meeting run and concluded) just thinking out loud Stockcars on a road tyre on a wet track is of low consideration when promotion abandons a meeting due to weather. Ministocks, productions and street stocks will continue to be on a street tyre. When a hard packed speedway dirt track gets drenched anything short of bulldozer tracks will struggle for traction. Especially if it’s mid meeting and the track has taken rubber. Many drivers pack their cars away when it rains. Many drivers refuse to wheel pack before a meeting to get the track ready for them to race on. Whether they feel it’s beneath them or they just don’t want to get their car dirty I’ll never know. Just look at the bay park stockcar North Island’s a couple of years back. More cars in the pits then wheel packing many of those still in the pits were the most vocal about the horrible state of the track the night before but weren’t willing to chip in to fix it. |
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Post by grindingdisc on Mar 21, 2023 18:50:45 GMT 12
Baypark North Island Champs first night got canned because of the gigantic crators that had formed on the track, snz pulled the pin due to the unsafe track conditions and dust… no wheel packing was going to fix that 🤣 was not wet at all
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 21, 2023 18:57:18 GMT 12
I've not long done the same thing, cost me $4k I didnt say who i got mine from or quote any performance claims. Mine started at 4k, till i asked a question and then the opportunity was there to spend another two k. What I've found is, It always starts out as this much, and you reckon you've got it, sweet, till they tell you or you find out that they haven't told you about the next part yet lol... and all of a sudden you find that if you spend another 2k, you can have exactly the same setup as being run by this guy, Hmmm, and this Guy...oh yeah?...and this dude...oh Fekk...ah well, I've spent the most of it, I may as well get the last bit..lol |
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Post by midway on Mar 21, 2023 19:10:54 GMT 12
I did not realize that super stock tyres approved to run in stockcars ,has ever had anything to do with efi or carbs and hi rise manifolds but wonders never cease ...  |
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 21, 2023 19:56:52 GMT 12
Its all about the changes, you know that well enough, one minute its carbs and inlets next day its tyres...
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Post by stikshift87 on Mar 21, 2023 21:29:26 GMT 12
I did not realize that super stock tyres approved to run in stockcars ,has ever had anything to do with efi or carbs and hi rise manifolds but wonders never cease ... If you go back through the posts you will find the link I'm sure. Yes we are digressing but that's how real conversation evolves and we just love the subject matter. |
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Post by stikshift87 on Mar 21, 2023 21:34:59 GMT 12
I've not long done the same thing, cost me $4k I didnt say who i got mine from or quote any performance claims. Mine started at 4k, till i asked a question and then the opportunity was there to spend another two k. What I've found is, It always starts out as this much, and you reckon you've got it, sweet, till they tell you or you find out that they haven't told you about the next part yet lol... and all of a sudden you find that if you spend another 2k, you can have exactly the same setup as being run by this guy, Hmmm, and this Guy...oh yeah?...and this dude...oh Fekk...ah well, I've spent the most of it, I may as well get the last bit..lol It's a common trap. We have a similar setup on the same type of manifold but the high rise is an older version and the carb is a 350CFM. However it wouldn't surprise me if we did back to back tests only to find the old $2k setup worked better. |
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Post by tank11 on Mar 22, 2023 8:50:50 GMT 12
I didnt say who i got mine from or quote any performance claims. Mine started at 4k, till i asked a question and then the opportunity was there to spend another two k. What I've found is, It always starts out as this much, and you reckon you've got it, sweet, till they tell you or you find out that they haven't told you about the next part yet lol... and all of a sudden you find that if you spend another 2k, you can have exactly the same setup as being run by this guy, Hmmm, and this Guy...oh yeah?...and this dude...oh Fekk...ah well, I've spent the most of it, I may as well get the last bit..lol It's a common trap. We have a similar setup on the same type of manifold but the high rise is an older version and the carb is a 350CFM. However it wouldn't surprise me if we did back to back tests only to find the old $2k setup worked better. When you get to the top end, every HP cost 10x what the initial gain was from the start! First 50hp may set you back $1500, but the next 5hp will cost you at least that. |
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Post by stikshift87 on Mar 22, 2023 9:40:32 GMT 12
It's a common trap. We have a similar setup on the same type of manifold but the high rise is an older version and the carb is a 350CFM. However it wouldn't surprise me if we did back to back tests only to find the old $2k setup worked better. When you get to the top end, every HP cost 10x what the initial gain was from the start! First 50hp may set you back $1500, but the next 5hp will cost you at least that. 100% spot on. I've been saying that for some time now. I also say, " the difference between a $10,000 Stockcar engine and a $15,000 one is $5,000. Unless you have very deep pockets, once you've done the obvious modifications you'd be better off to start investing in the setup. Our car went to the NI's at Stratty and qualified with a wreckers yard donk with big K's that we just gave an oil change, spark plugs and bolted on our intake and exhaust manifolds. |
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Post by hienekenno1 on Mar 23, 2023 11:15:42 GMT 12
The superstock tyre is not aloud to be used at the NZ Stockcar GP this weekend.
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 23, 2023 12:11:57 GMT 12
It's a common trap. We have a similar setup on the same type of manifold but the high rise is an older version and the carb is a 350CFM. However it wouldn't surprise me if we did back to back tests only to find the old $2k setup worked better. When you get to the top end, every HP cost 10x what the initial gain was from the start! First 50hp may set you back $1500, but the next 5hp will cost you at least that. I thought the last bit was expensive actually. But I figured there must be one more piece to the puzzle and when i asked, the answer they gave me was exactly what I was hoping to hear because i couldn't see how effective all the rest would be without it. |
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 23, 2023 12:22:29 GMT 12
The superstock tyre is not aloud to be used at the NZ Stockcar GP this weekend. was it previously going to be allowed, and its changed now, or was never it allowed? |
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Post by mudman on Mar 23, 2023 12:36:56 GMT 12
The superstock tyre is not aloud to be used at the NZ Stockcar GP this weekend. was it previously going to be allowed, and its changed now, or was never it allowed? Originally there was no stipulations to use on it therefore allowing it to be used for the nzgp. Snz got this one right by not allowing the superstock tyre to be used this weekend. |
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Post by interestedbystander on Mar 23, 2023 13:07:46 GMT 12
they got it right then. More time is required i guess, but it hasnt passed notice that of all the stockcar drivers and owners on this board there are what? half a dozen of us or a couple more having this convo...so still not much interest for or against. Maybe a poll on here might shed more light?
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