NZ Super Saloon Champs (Read 22,967 times)

[spuddy]

Jan 10, 2024 21:17:48 GMT 12 sonic33 said:

This format will be rubbish without change. 8 car heats will do nothing for the sport. In saying that 25 cars, for the nz champs, is doing nothing for the sport. It is plain and clear that this class is broken.

Add in the support classes and this will be a two day meeting with one good race.

Feel very sorry for the Cromwell club.

Yeah it is tough, and the GP at the Glen a week later will have the same issue

Probably get better racing with the old format, 1 group of 13 and 1 of 12, 3 heats each and the top 9 go through, repecharge to start night 2 then 20 car, 3 Heat finals

In all likelihood every car left running probably makes the final race

It is a quality field so there will be some great racing at various points, but it isn’t enough to get me to buy the stream at this stage

[Deleted]

Bigger fields is more spectacular...sorry bout groups of 8 cars is boring as batpoop...

It's too predictable.

[nakifans]

With final numbers unknown at this stage, the current numbers wouldn't entice you to make transport arrangements to head to Cromwell or book a livestream.
With the high numbers entered in both the Super & Stockcar title meetings the enthusiasm for competitors to participate in title meetings still there.
Which brings us back to why is the current enthusiasm for competitors in the super saloon grade not there to enter there premier meeting.
Is it the cost of getting to the meeting or the under current of disharmony which caused the cancelation of a popular S I Series..
It is a bit like a boxing ring at the moment, in one corner 4 bar/late model competitors and chassis builders and in the other corner torsion bar competitors and chassis builders and neutral referee SNZ
Thank god I attended the meetings with Blondie, Skinny, Fletcher. Cardwell, Jennings and so on. These meetings were full in the pits and stands
Why in an amateur sport do we allow ourselves to evolve into an expensive off shoot of a professional overseas class.
The Burger King series breathed life into the class but now we seem to have a blanket thrown over it trying to suffocate it.
Lets hope the weekend in Cromwell not all doom and gloom.

[midway]

Jan 11, 2024 14:22:35 GMT 12 nakifans said:

With final numbers unknown at this stage, the current numbers wouldn't entice you to make transport arrangements to head to Cromwell or book a livestream.
With the high numbers entered in both the Super & Stockcar title meetings the enthusiasm for competitors to participate in title meetings still there.
Which brings us back to why is the current enthusiasm for competitors in the super saloon grade not there to enter there premier meeting.
Is it the cost of getting to the meeting or the under current of disharmony which caused the cancelation of a popular S I Series..
It is a bit like a boxing ring at the moment, in one corner 4 bar/late model competitors and chassis builders and in the other corner torsion bar competitors and chassis builders and neutral referee SNZ
Thank god I attended the meetings with Blondie, Skinny, Fletcher. Cardwell, Jennings and so on. These meetings were full in the pits and stands
Why in an amateur sport do we allow ourselves to evolve into an expensive off shoot of a professional overseas class.
The Burger King series breathed life into the class but now we seem to have a blanket thrown over it trying to suffocate it.
Lets hope the weekend in Cromwell not all doom and gloom.

Unfortunately that seems the trend the sport is falling into ,and of course who is to blame ,no one but themselves they are the decision making process .
Sadly Super saloon racing doesnt entertain me anymore ,like many others ,but open wheelers do ,with the exception of stockcars and super stocks ,also bikes

We are seeing a lot of selective meetings by competitors in these ever increasing harsh economic times ,the expense has grown out of proportion to once was great family entertainment both ,young and old
.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2024 16:13:51 GMT 12 midway said:

Jan 11, 2024 14:22:35 GMT 12 nakifans said:

With final numbers unknown at this stage, the current numbers wouldn't entice you to make transport arrangements to head to Cromwell or book a livestream.
With the high numbers entered in both the Super & Stockcar title meetings the enthusiasm for competitors to participate in title meetings still there.
Which brings us back to why is the current enthusiasm for competitors in the super saloon grade not there to enter there premier meeting.
Is it the cost of getting to the meeting or the under current of disharmony which caused the cancelation of a popular S I Series..
It is a bit like a boxing ring at the moment, in one corner 4 bar/late model competitors and chassis builders and in the other corner torsion bar competitors and chassis builders and neutral referee SNZ
Thank god I attended the meetings with Blondie, Skinny, Fletcher. Cardwell, Jennings and so on. These meetings were full in the pits and stands
Why in an amateur sport do we allow ourselves to evolve into an expensive off shoot of a professional overseas class.
The Burger King series breathed life into the class but now we seem to have a blanket thrown over it trying to suffocate it.
Lets hope the weekend in Cromwell not all doom and gloom.

Unfortunately that seems the trend the sport is falling into ,and of course who is to blame ,no one but themselves they are the decision making process .
Sadly Super saloon racing doesnt entertain me anymore ,like many others ,but open wheelers do ,with the exception of stockcars and super stocks ,also bikes

We are seeing a lot of selective meetings by competitors in these ever increasing harsh economic times ,the expense has grown out of proportion to once was great family entertainment both ,young and old
.

People lost interest when they started to look like 💩.
What Corvette has flat sides and a pooper scoop on the front?

Bring back real looking bodies from the 70s and 80s, and none of this 4bar rubbish.

Greg

[Helios]

Super Saloons have always been subject to evolutionary change, 4 bars set-ups being a part of that. But why do they have to look so UGLY? Surely it's possible to build a car that doesn't look like it hasn't been repaired since being involved in a major accident?
Gone are the days of being able to find any resemblance to a particular model of road-going vehicle, so to a lot of people all relevance is lost.

[spuddy]

Super Saloons are my favourite class, do they look ugly at the moment, yeah some do, but I don’t really care, I just want to see good racing

I’m not one way or the other with the 4 bar thing, but I will say that I think late in the night on a slick track, these 4 bars have been providing better racing and more opportunities for passing. The 4 bar isn’t a new thing at all, it’s just that a driver managed to crack the code on getting it to work and more have been able to follow suit afterwards

[sadfish]

Yes 4 bars been around for 20 odd years,but your set up needs to be spot on, where as tortion bars are more forgiving on setup, when you get your car built or if you are clever enough to build it yourself you can put both types in and between races change the setup if thats your thing, as for number of cars in a race 16 seems to be the perfect number any more than that and it gets messy and to many stoppage, a nice flowing race is what the crowd comes to see

[bikeboy]

lowest car count in my memory, and looking at the speedway statistics from last years 14 day AGM pack they are near 30% down on last year which was the lowest listed,


last 8 years , numbers at NZ title

Super Saloon 36 44 49 41 45 39 not held 35

www.sporty.co.nz/asset/downloadasset?id=be176474-3892-48aa-a852-7b91a278326c

[BarryB]

I have travelled as far as Cromwell in the past for an NZ Super Saloon title (even to Invercargill in fact), and although I was not going to be attending this season anyway, the low car numbers listed would have definitely cured me of any enthusiasm I may have had to incur the time taken, and money spent, just to spectate.

Barry B

[Ramjam]

I really don't understand the hate towards the late model style of car. I enjoy Super Saloons, but it's not been a class I've followed real close. I've been to several NZ champs meetings and always enjoyed them (until they got rid of the 3 heart format that is), but would never claim to be an expert on the class. But as an observer not a die hard of the class, the 4 bar/late model type car seems to get around our tight tracks really well, and creates better racing.

I went to the outlaws at Bristol in 2022 which was a 2 night double header with Sprintcars and late models. I went for the Sprintcars but stayed for the late models. They were awesome and the racing was much better than the Sprintcars. I know I'm comparing apples & oranges here but the further they go down the Mick Quinn 4 bar/LM path, the better the racing will be IMHO. Super Saloons should be the pinnacle of speedway saloon car racing not something that's held back because people like looking at old cars

[BarryB]

Jan 12, 2024 11:38:09 GMT 12 Ramjam said:

I really don't understand the hate towards the late model style of car. I enjoy Super Saloons, but it's not been a class I've followed real close. I've been to several NZ champs meetings and always enjoyed them (until they got rid of the 3 heart format that is), but would never claim to be an expert on the class. But as an observer not a die hard of the class, the 4 bar/late model type car seems to get around our tight tracks really well, and creates better racing.

I went to the outlaws at Bristol in 2022 which was a 2 night double header with Sprintcars and late models. I went for the Sprintcars but stayed for the late models. They were awesome and the racing was much better than the Sprintcars. I know I'm comparing apples & oranges here but the further they go down the Mick Quinn 4 bar/LM path, the better the racing will be IMHO. Super Saloons should be the pinnacle of speedway saloon car racing not something that's held back because people like looking at old cars

I guess part of the problem is you've got "the haves" and "the have nots". To win the big meetings now you need one. Which means a couple of years back everybody in the class that wanted to be competitive suddenly had to buy one. Not everybody is in a position to do so. And who do you sell your old no-longer-competitive Super too? The 4-bars, by nature, require more track. Currently, being, say, approximately half the field, that works okay. Should everybody have one, where - outside of Baypark - could they put on a show?

I'm not too worried how ugly they are. Super Saloon racing has always seen pretty race cars going home looking extremely tatty EVERY Saturday night. All I want to see from the class is big fields and competitive racing. We no longer have that. As mentioned above the 4-bar design has been around for years, but nobody could master the setup. And now they have. I'm no technical expert, not even close, but every class needs a public following to remain relevant. THAT is a FACT.

Barry B

[Helios]

Hey Barry, I take your point on trying to sell your newly-uncompetitive, but it's not something that is peculiar to the advent of the successful 4 bar set-ups. Shane McIntyre's cars, for instance, rendered everything else obsolete a number of years back, but time moves on - adapt or die. I don't think resale value ever weighed large in motor racing.

[petrolfumes]

25 cars in the Pits.
Time trials start in 45 mins.

[mod46c]

Jan 12, 2024 11:38:09 GMT 12 Ramjam said:

I really don't understand the hate towards the late model style of car. I enjoy Super Saloons, but it's not been a class I've followed real close. I've been to several NZ champs meetings and always enjoyed them (until they got rid of the 3 heart format that is), but would never claim to be an expert on the class. But as an observer not a die hard of the class, the 4 bar/late model type car seems to get around our tight tracks really well, and creates better racing.

I went to the outlaws at Bristol in 2022 which was a 2 night double header with Sprintcars and late models. I went for the Sprintcars but stayed for the late models. They were awesome and the racing was much better than the Sprintcars. I know I'm comparing apples & oranges here but the further they go down the Mick Quinn 4 bar/LM path, the better the racing will be IMHO. Super Saloons should be the pinnacle of speedway saloon car racing not something that's held back because people like looking at old cars

If you want to look at pretty cars go to a hot rod show

[nakifans]

Yes they have been around 20 odd years. The one I remember is,think the number was 58A yellow/ black and driven by Doug Torrey of 6A. It was made NZ legal by Maurice Cowling. Set up man was Big Pete and he spent hrs viewing video's to get his head around going smaller Rt rear not larger. Think the car became 91A and disappeared.
SNZ to me made huge mistake allowing both classes to run together competitively . As they both excel on different surfaces it depends what type of surface the clubs dish up wich class will excel on the night
Too me if they want to go down the 4 bar/ late model road they should of had a phase in time frame of 5/10 yrs and no Torsion bars after that.
At the moment they've created disharmony which has shown by a S I series being cancelled and record low turn out for title meeting
Solution, torsion join CTRA and still get racing without the current two camps.

[BarryB]

I seem to recall a 4-bar car racing out of Gisborne too, plus the two Mick Quin brought out from The States without much immediate success. Yes, it's something MC has played around with for years.

Clubs do provide different surfaces, yes, but when it cones to championship time, especially with the format they run too, it's ALWAYS gonna be slick when it matters most. It's not an enviable situation for clubs/track prep guys when half of your entry list wants one thing and the other half something different.

And to Helios; "Evolve or die" is fine, unless the 'death' is of the class itself, or public interest in the class. I mean, if a club has 8 Super Saloons contracted - and most tracks don't even have that many - and the two factions won't race against each other, the club either drops the class until something changes or they run 4x4's all night. WP used to do that regularly many, MANY years ago with classes short on numbers. It's okay for one week, but quickly becomes a yawn fest. At the moment the racing is quite good, because we're getting more side-by-side action, but it's artificially produced with a 'winners lane' and the 'cannon-fodder lane'. The cannon-fodder drivers are not the long-term solution to making the class attractive again as a viewing spectacle.

Barry B

[Helios]

Barry, I don't care a lot about what suspension the car has, I just like to see good racing, something which some of the classes seem to lack these days. I have no idea whether it's the track surfaces, similarity of equipment across the board or what, but while it seems possible to catch up, getting past (or passed) can be another matter. I'm looking forward to seeing how things pan out at Cromwell, may not be as the prophets of doom predict.
As far as "adapt or die" goes, it's something must be done if you want to remain at the pointy end of the field. Drivers/owners have been doing it for decades, but every now and again a game changer comes along, a "disruptor" I think they call it. Whether that's good for the continued welfare of the class is another matter, and the old adage "be careful what you wish for, you may receive it" sometimes rings true.

[Ramjam]

Jan 12, 2024 14:42:30 GMT 12 Helios said:

Barry, I don't care a lot about what suspension the car has, I just like to see good racing, something which some of the classes seem to lack these days. I have no idea whether it's the track surfaces, similarity of equipment across the board or what, but while it seems possible to catch up, getting past (or passed) can be another matter. I'm looking forward to seeing how things pan out at Cromwell, may not be as the prophets of doom predict.
As far as "adapt or die" goes, it's something must be done if you want to remain at the pointy end of the field. Drivers/owners have been doing it for decades, but every now and again a game changer comes along, a "disruptor" I think they call it. Whether that's good for the continued welfare of the class is another matter, and the old adage "be careful what you wish for, you may receive it" sometimes rings true.

Spaceframe A grade stockcars anyone?

Some were predicting the end of stockcar racing at the time, well super/stockcars classes seem in pretty good heart to me. If the resale value of what's sitting in someones shed is going to dictate the progress of a class then there will be no progress.

[skulls]

Any results on the time trials I couldn't see anything at all on Speedhive