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Post by knownotmuch on Aug 28, 2009 13:06:50 GMT 12
For me the reason I have chosen RWD and have no intention of racing a FWD is that im going to be out there to have some fun and I think hanging it out round the corners will be alot more fun than driving it round,And the other main factor is that all other classes in speedway are RWD so if im gonna have any chance in climbing the ranks and classes RWD is where I need to be but that is my reason. Cant wait for my first season bring it on. Some people may say whats fun about losing but at least at the back ill be enjoying myself and will look good doing it lol Two very good points you make. I have always wondered if the front wheel drive "club" have no intention of competing in other speedway classes. You may start off not beating some of them, but you will at least be building up more transferable skills. So in years to come when you and some of the front wheel drive club have gone to Supersaloons your experience may be what gives you the title ahead of them. In my not so humble opinion, competing in a front wheel drive when other classes are rear wheel drive, is a very short-sighted, unambitious way to approach speedway. Also much better for spectators to see the back hanging out round corners  |
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Post by shooter on Aug 28, 2009 17:06:27 GMT 12
Hi. Here's some lap time's from WFG last season. 26oct my xf running 235 60 14's race one 23.1100. Same race Gerry's honda 2.2 v-tec dun a 22.4684 and Arjen's honda 2.2 h22a dun a 22.9228 both honda's being fastest cars thear. Easter time fri 10 apr race one my xf falcon runing 205 70 14's dun a 21.8426. Gerry's honda dun a 21.5980 and pam's toyota fwd thing dun a 21.8748 which is a very fast car that has seat thack record's earler in the season. Which proves that tyres dont make that much differnc on my falcon which way's 1300kg. and that is why RWD cars ov any type are way better.
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Aug 28, 2009 20:01:46 GMT 12
Look at rally cars, the closest thing to prod saloons, all that HP and they usually run 185-205 tyres to get max grip. You could do worse than base your cars setup on a rally car.
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Post by 69g on Sept 2, 2009 10:18:23 GMT 12
Look at rally cars, the closest thing to prod saloons, all that HP and they usually run 185-205 tyres to get max grip. You could do worse than base your cars setup on a rally car. Yeah but rules say road tyres only no rally tyres or mud tread |
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Sept 2, 2009 17:24:00 GMT 12
Thats where the rules come undone, there are a lot of tyres out there that are legally road tyres, with dot certs etc, that have compounds that are more suited to racing. The Dunlops that the targa boys use for example, they have to be road legal because they drive on the public road stages between the special stages, but they are a soft compound, lasting approx 2000k's. There are others out there, like the Bridgestone RE71s that I used on the circuit car, that will last less than 300k's, and yes they are road legal. These are hard to find in 205's, but with a checkbook and the internet you can find them.
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Post by mike88g on Sept 2, 2009 18:30:52 GMT 12
The rule is worded "no racing type tyres" therefore these road legal race tyres are not allowed.
I have found that setup is just as important as tyre choice.
I also found that directional tread patterns are useless for my car. I changed from directional to a standard tread 3/4 of the way through the season, and what a difference, especially in the wet.
Try different profiles/ pressures. Get the rev range right with tyre profile height and don't worry too much with trying to get the biggest width tyre you can. You might find that a narrower tyre with a different height might give you more driveability than a wider tyre. Being in the right rev range right through and coming out of the corner will have more advantage than just concentrating on traction. As Footy always told me, keeping the speed up in the corners with proper setup is more important than power on the straights.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2009 20:46:22 GMT 12
well said mike, but for some you may as well talk to a brick wall as there are a few that seem to think we like saloons, so need wide tyres
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Sept 2, 2009 21:39:28 GMT 12
The wording "no racing type tyres" is subjective, some take it to mean no "R" or higher rated tyres, but there is no actual rule for it. The rules state road tyres only, no mud grips or rally treads. The tyres I mentioned are road tyres, have DoT and AS/NZS certification stating that they are legal for highway use, they are road tyres under the rules. It is likely that this type of tyre will be no use whatsoever on a speedway track, but there is a chance that one of them will give an advantage. You'd have to spend a shedload of money to find out which one, but sooner or later someone will try to buy an advantage. An option here is to tighten the rule further, and state that one breed of tyres, eg Firehawks, will be the only type of tyre allowed. A two year run in would keep the costs down.
Either you state the tyre that is used or be prepared that someone will find an expensive tyre that gives them an advantage.
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Post by mike88g on Sept 2, 2009 22:25:25 GMT 12
We all like to push the boundaries and to go as fast as possible, but we still need to come back to the spirit behind this class. If we want to become a big time racer, then we should move to a more race dedicated type of race car and class.
While we may hate some of the rules, they need to be there to keep us all honest and to bring the driver skills into the picture. Some drivers can make any car go quick, while the rest of us can struggle like a fish out of water.
This is after all, based on a standard road car that was never designed to do what we do with them. (It is awesome fun though isn't it?)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 18:31:58 GMT 12
well said again mike, i just wish guys would stop trying to read to much into the rules and stop trying to read them as they want them to be and actually read them as they read, for me they are pretty clear but im not trying to read more out of them than what is actually written
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Post by 69g on Sept 11, 2009 9:23:57 GMT 12
The wording "no racing type tyres" is subjective, some take it to mean no "R" or higher rated tyres, but there is no actual rule for it. The rules state road tyres only, no mud grips or rally treads. The tyres I mentioned are road tyres, have DoT and AS/NZS certification stating that they are legal for highway use, they are road tyres under the rules. It is likely that this type of tyre will be no use whatsoever on a speedway track, but there is a chance that one of them will give an advantage. You'd have to spend a shedload of money to find out which one, but sooner or later someone will try to buy an advantage. An option here is to tighten the rule further, and state that one breed of tyres, eg Firehawks, will be the only type of tyre allowed. A two year run in would keep the costs down. Either you state the tyre that is used or be prepared that someone will find an expensive tyre that gives them an advantage. I dont think having to use a specific tyre is a good idea as alot of people use second hand tyres and basically use anything they can get and the width rule is already keeping things close |
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Post by kevin61 on Sept 11, 2009 10:01:57 GMT 12
Those that want to win and have a reasonable budget will always be looking for an advantage, it has happened in every budget class their has been. The Mini saloon class way back,, originally attracted big feilds, but because the rules werent tight enough, people started building space frame cars, importing engine parts from England, building short stroke engines, etc etc and we were one of the worst offenders, but it killed the class. then came ltd saloons and standard stocks, our first cars in those classes were cheap to. If you want it to stay a budget class keep on top of those rules, you guys have got a good affordable class, try and keep it that way.
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Sept 11, 2009 20:27:20 GMT 12
The easy solution for the tyres is to have a minimum duro rating of around 120-150. That is a solid, black and white rule that can be enforced.
I have started a new class before, in circuit racing, and you have to be specific about the rules or some smartass will try to get around them. "Intent of class" means nothing, or rather means different things to different people. There are some rather vocal people that believe VTEC engines are outside the spirit of the rules, and if one of them gets to be a scruteneer there will be a lot of pissed off Honda owners. Rules have to be simple, clear and not open to interpretation. Look at Stockcars, some of the rules wern't clear and look at the trouble that caused.
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