Saloon Bodies - Within the rules ? (Read 2,328 times)

[japsuper]

Went to Baypark Friday nite for first nite of Saloons.
Great racing, pity I couldnt make the second nite.
Looking at the cars in the pits, from my perspective there are quite a few cars that are outside of the rules with regard to bodies. The rules state that bodies must follow same profile and contour as the production car they are based on.
There is Corvettes and corvettes, ones that look like the original, those with rear quarters that are flat and straight, a short looking one too !!!

One Mustang which is a fantastic copy of the original, then another which has the flat straight rear quarters on it ?

If the bodywork is lesser issue with Saloons, thats fine, but the rulebook needs to be clarified to suit.

What are the thoughts out there with the Nz's fresh in mind ?

[Devilracer]

Most of the saloons out there these days dont look anything like the producton road car. Look at Super saloon 1NZ, Corvette? thats a Tui ad.
The Monaros are pretty close and the 10m car looks bloody awesome as it looks like the road car.

Maybe the full chassis/bodied cars need to come back so we get real looking cars.

[japsuper]

The Supers are a different rule. They can have the Flat sided and wedged noses like the American Latemodels.
I understood that the supers went this way to give some differentiation from the Slaoons which are still to look like the original shell.

Yes 10M is awesome and the Monaro shelled cars look great also.

[strx7]

The 1NZ Super Saloon doesn't actually have to look like anything in particular as they are allowed to look "late model" which doesn't look like anything.

This Rule here though, I think would cause alot of angry people if it was enforced.

T11-2-19 Suspension
(m) Wheel base must not be altered.
Exception: All cars with an original wheel base of more than 102"
may reduce the wheel base to 102", provided the original proportions
of the original body measurements are maintained. Note: The
existing 2" tolerance is permitted on the finished wheelbase.

Now here is where it gets interesting.....
the 2 different 'Corvette' body shapes being used for bodies are
C4 - 1983-1996 has a 96 inch wheel base
C5 - 1996-2004 has a 104 inch wheel base

Therefore the only "corvette" cars with a wheelbase between 102 and 100 inches would be 26a, 79m, 68a and possibly 16m (they all run the C5 style rear end), all the other ones should have a wheelbase of 92 to 96 inch wheel base as they all run a 83-96 rear end.

[BarryB]

The Super Saloons, such as the 1nz, have much more body freedom now than the Saloon class does - some Saloon drivers don't seem to realise the changes did not apply to their class as well.

[ross56y]

then theres the 20year rule for bodys too
you have to wonder why they keep changing the rules

[japsuper]

I dont think the Saloon rules have changed at all, just the appearance of some of the cars has changed, more freedom has been taken with body shape.
If there were protests re bodies i'd say SNZ wouldnt know where to start !!!

[mrrx]

i dont see why super saloons have a 20 year rule if you have a latemodel body and any motor

[dontpanic]

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Therefore the only "corvette" cars with a wheelbase between 102 and 100 inches would be 26a, 79m, 68a and possibly 16m (they all run the C5 style rear end), all the other ones should have a wheelbase of 92 to 96 inch wheel base as they all run a 83-96 rear end.
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I dont really know my corvette's but my cars body (26A) is an older round tail light C4 with flaired rear guards.

I was thinking about updateing to a C5 like Ollies (68A). I think you could do this with out changing the wheelbase because the bodies are diamentionly very simular size, and the Saloon rules allow a 50mm tolerance on body diamentions.

When you thing about it this 50mm tolarance does give scope for a lot of fredom to reshape a body, perhaps some of the body styles we are seeing are legally within this tolarance.

Cheers Brendon

[schumaaka]

yes its an interesting one, I was at the conference and saw the late model rules brought in however what was passed appears to differ from the actual rules in the book.

Either way its to late to do anything about it this season and if you wanted to look closely at one NZ Champs I genuinly believe that more than 1/2 of the cars were technically illegal.

Having said that I believe that little if any of these problems would affect the cars performance so why worry.

I once had a driver complain about the rear wing on my car being 20mm to high! the Steward wanted to know what my side of the complaint was so I wandered over to the guys car and asked him to lift his bonnet and we measured his engine to centre line and found that his engine was 3'' away from where it should be.

Obviously I could alter my wing which I did straight away but he couldn't move his engine. My point is that If it doesn't affect performance why worry and does anyone really want to open that can of worms.

You are also right about the corvettes however there are more than just the 2 different sizes and I use the wider version of the earlier shape for a good reason

[dontpanic]

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You are also right about the corvettes however there are more than just the 2 different sizes and I use the wider version of the earlier shape for a good reason
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Hi Shumaaka

One thousand questions for you if you dont mind

Is that to put your Right Rear were you want it and be within the rules?
Were can you find a replacement for one of these old wide body rear clips these days?
Was there ever a limited edition corvette that had a wide body like this or are they just created for Saloon cars?
Cheers Brendon

[strx7]

Jan 4, 2010 11:06:30 GMT 12 dontpanic said:

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Therefore the only "corvette" cars with a wheelbase between 102 and 100 inches would be 26a, 79m, 68a and possibly 16m (they all run the C5 style rear end), all the other ones should have a wheelbase of 92 to 96 inch wheel base as they all run a 83-96 rear end.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont really know my corvette's but my cars body (26A) is an older round tail light C4 with flaired rear guards.

I was thinking about updateing to a C5 like Ollies (68A). I think you could do this with out changing the wheelbase because the bodies are diamentionly very simular size, and the Saloon rules allow a 50mm tolerance on body diamentions.

When you thing about it this 50mm tolarance does give scope for a lot of fredom to reshape a body, perhaps some of the body styles we are seeing are legally within this tolarance.

Cheers Brendon

But technically you cant, that is exactly what I'm saying.

the Yellow corvette in the pic is a C5 (1997-2004), these have a 104 inch wheel base from the factory, the rules say it can be shortend down to 102, and allowing for 2 inch tolerance it can be as short as 100 inches if you car is that shape.

The red and blue ones in the pic are the C4 - 1983 to 1996 shape, which have a 96 inch wheel base from the factory, which means your wheel base can be between 94 and 98 inches if you car is that shape.

So if you change from one body shape to the other, you have to alter your wheel base or technically you are illegal......

A C6 Corvette (2005 onwards) has an even longer wheelbase as 105.7 from the factory.

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[strx7]

Jan 4, 2010 13:59:49 GMT 12 schumaaka said:

You are also right about the corvettes however there are more than just the 2 different sizes and I use the wider version of the earlier shape for a good reason

Actually there is only those 2 different spec 'bodies' being used. the pre 1983 shape is the stingray with the pumped front and rear arches, there was a red one at baypark a couple of years ago. The tail light shapes change depending on the exactly mode of C4, but MOST of the saloons are supposedly C4 corvettes so their wheelbases should be between 94 and 98 inches.


For the record here are some other wheelbases of vehicles being used for saloon bodies

2000's Monaro/Pontiac GTO 109.8 inches
2005+ Mustang 107.1 inches
1994-2004 Mustang 101.3 inches

[mrrx]

strx7 any idea of batty and rx8 wheelbase i just havent looked at it yet

[strx7]

your current wheelbase should be between 93.6 and 97.6 inches???

a Batty body can go straight onto your chassis without wheelbase alterations as there is only 5mm difference between FC3S and FD3S wheelbases

an RX8 on the other hand has a 106 inch wheelbase, considerably longer than the previous rx7's

[dontpanic]

But technically you cant, that is exactly what I'm saying.
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Hi STRX7
I understand what you are saying and its 100% correct regarding wheelbase for specific models

I am coming from a differant angle, in the section of the rule book about bodies it allows a 50mm tolerance for all body diamentions.
If the C5 rear clip is within 50mm of a C4 for all external diamentions (shape) perhaps its OK to use a C5 rear clip and still retain the C4 designation/wheelbase

I think this is how some people may be interpretating the rules.

Cheers Brendon

[strx7]

here is the 2 shapes rear overhang comparison

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[strx7]

"B" Pillar shape is the give away between the 2 bodies.

[schumaaka]

Jan 4, 2010 15:17:32 GMT 12 dontpanic said:

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You are also right about the corvettes however there are more than just the 2 different sizes and I use the wider version of the earlier shape for a good reason
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Hi Shumaaka

One thousand questions for you if you dont mind

Is that to put your Right Rear were you want it and be within the rules?
Were can you find a replacement for one of these old wide body rear clips these days?
Was there ever a limited edition corvette that had a wide body like this or are they just created for Saloon cars?
Cheers Brendon

I use the 19901/2 ZRI which from memory about 1850 instead of the 1780 wide bodies which allows the wider track and yes it allows more flexabality with the wheel track.

Fairview FibreGlass in Timaru have a good rear clip that I have used in the past.

Blondie cut and added to a std body to get it the width he needed.

[strx7]

yeah the ZR1 models were always a fraction wider than the std run of the mill model