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Post by percy on Apr 21, 2015 19:54:13 GMT 12
Current Rule S3-8-3(c)
All SuperStock, Stockcars and Streetstock drivers to wear an approved, neck brace while driving in competition and practice.
S3-9 Open Wheel Classes:
Head and Neck Restraint The use of an approved head restraint device is compulsory in TQ Midgets, Midgets, Sprintcars and Minisprints.
Proposed Changes – S3-8-3(c)
Delete S3-9
Head and Neck Restraint - The use of an approved head restraint device is compulsory in TQ Midgets, Midgets, Sprintcars, Minisprints. and compulsory from 1 September 2016 for Quarter Midgets, Modified Sprints, Six Shooters, Youth & Adult Ministocks, Stockcars, Superstocks, Streetstocks, Saloon, Super Saloon, Production Saloon, Youth Saloons and Modifieds
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Post by Hoosier on Apr 21, 2015 21:34:42 GMT 12
I don't have a problem with this- safety safety safety-starts with the head and neck in any form of car racing... surely
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Post by redbaron on Apr 21, 2015 22:23:58 GMT 12
if this remit gets passed I feel the sport will loses a lot of low budget racers
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Post by modliteracing on Apr 21, 2015 22:36:59 GMT 12
if this remit gets passed I feel the sport will loses a lot of low budget racers i understand where you are comming from but the way i see it if you cant afford a one off expence to help keep you alive and walking then maybe the grandstand with a hot dog is where you shuld be...also the more an item is purchased the bigger bulk orders to keep up with demand the cheaper the item should get over time. SAFETY is number one |
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Post by kerrytga on Apr 21, 2015 23:00:00 GMT 12
People seem to forget that we all take impact differently. We are not all the same! I still use a neck brace and have had and given lots of big hits over the years. I'm not keen to change what I know works for me. I also know others who have been in the sport for a lot of years who still use neck braces too. And then there have been drivers who with all the latest n greatest safety gear have had major injuries. I personally don't think this is the right decision. Cheers Kerry
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Post by sonjahickey on Apr 22, 2015 3:41:40 GMT 12
I agree with Kerry, without the research as to whether head and neck restraints are the best application for our sport how can we vote on this. ie Michael Aulding with a broken neck with a Hans Device. Is all the knockouts we are seeing recently attributable to head and neck restraints and full containment seats. Not saying they are but without the research l have been asking for every year at Conference since Ray Channing died how do we know.
Sonja H
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 5:38:50 GMT 12
nice to finally hear some senior voices out there with good opinions and reasoning, our contact classes are unique, like was said our hits and impacts are so different and varied, leave it up to each individual to choose what they wish to wear, until such time a genuine and proven device is created to suit what we do.
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Post by Hoosier on Apr 22, 2015 8:16:10 GMT 12
If we look at the open wheel classes -which im far more familiar with ,i think the Hans etc have proven themselves time and again,for high speed impact and roll overs there cannot be a choice.Halos,nets etc etc also help with side to side movement no doubt. To say "there have been drivers who with all the latest n greatest safety gear have had major injuries" is a blindingly stupid reason not to protect oneself. There are far far more examples of drivers walking away from unbelievable crashes in all types of motor sports probably due to the safety equipment they are wearing.
Im not wearing a seat belt anymore-i know a guy that died in an accident and he was wearing one,it failed...........
Surely any form of purpose designed restraint/protection is better than a poxy piece of foam ?
The rule says "an approved"- it makes no mention of brand /type/ etc...There's no suggestion that for contact classes it WILL be a Hans or any particular type-maybe there is cause for better clarification of what type of restraint is intended to be "the approved" for each class-assuming there wont be a one size fits all approved restraint.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 10:30:32 GMT 12
unfortunately the contact classes are not open wheel though are they, with out getting into it to much on here as it will just get out of hand as it always seems to nowdays, should be left down to the individual as to what they feel comfortable using , not a forced decision on them, there is no clear evidence out there to support head restraints are better for you in the unique contact sport we have, like has been saib before, its not just a neck restraint, it would also be a case of making sure seat worked with it also.amoung other things
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Post by sonjahickey on Apr 22, 2015 10:42:18 GMT 12
Just may be a couple of pieces of foam and a correctly fitted headnet is the better option in a solid steel chassis car. It slows the head down slowly and stops a concussion. We don't have any research either way.
The one thing l do know after following JVs research on the Aulding accident is that probably 50% of stockcar drivers using a Hans device do not have the correct seat for a Hans and when going in backwards are actually putting themselves at greater risk. Most of the Ministocks run a seat that have no gap between the headrest and the seat and therefore should not use a Hans but many of them are because Mum and Dad believe wearing one is going to keep Johnny/Jonette safe.
We need proper research and more than that we need people to be educated on how these things should be worn. Don't get me started on the different sizes thats another whole book. Make them compulsory and we are going to have kids with second hand approved head restraints that don't fit because thats all Mum and Dad can afford. There is nobody currently in our organization thar has the expertize to upskill all the local staff at each track to make sure these things fit properly.
Sonja h
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Post by Hoosier on Apr 22, 2015 13:55:04 GMT 12
unfortunately the contact classes are not open wheel though are they, with out getting into it to much on here as it will just get out of hand as it always seems to nowdays, should be left down to the individual as to what they feel comfortable using , not a forced decision on them, there is no clear evidence out there to support head restraints are better for you in the unique contact sport we have, like has been saib before, its not just a neck restraint, it would also be a case of making sure seat worked with it also.amoung other things Regarding the contact classes i think your points are fair enough. Problem with leaving such matters "to the individual" Gribbs is thats when the corners get cut- some simply wont "value" their limbs etc as others... some may opt for inferior cheaper products.Then when it all goes pear shaped whose in the gun? the club? SNZ? we live in a blame society now whereby individuals aren't allowed to think or decide Cheers |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 15:17:08 GMT 12
yes fair point, hence why lots of clubs now run closed pits, as at the end of the day if something happens club and or promotor are in the gun,
back to the subject , I agree with sonjas points, and me personally I run a foam horseshoe through my belts and a foam neckbrace,with a carlos seat and in new car will run window net on r/h side as car offset, and I feel comfortable
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Post by sonjahickey on Apr 22, 2015 16:40:52 GMT 12
Hoosier, exactly my point. If an accident happened and the individual involved was not wearing the head and neck restraint correctly or had the wrong seat for that device, who would be held accountable. SNZ simply do not currently have the resources to train personnel. Better that the head and neck restraint responsibility remains with the individual. Gribbs, Stan also wore a horse collar, neck brace and a head net for 14 years. He also wore a very light Motorcycle helmet which of course have now been banned. Are the heavy helmets being used now some of the problem?  The only time he got knocked out was when we put in a full containment seat. Once we cut off the head restraints and went back to a head net it never happened again. It's not what we did though, it's about getting proper research done for our solid steel chassis' so we get it right. Sonja h |
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Post by mudman on Apr 22, 2015 19:11:42 GMT 12
When they say approved head restraint who is approving them? fia? snz? I use a leatt brace moto r which has recently come into the firing line with these rules but i find it to be the best device out. i have never been hurt dont even get belt bruising or a sore neck after racing. they teather your head in and dont put any pressure on your collar bones but also collar your neck like a foam roll, i consider them to be perfect for stockcars. and with reputable users like bruce harding and brendan higgins they must be working but if these rules come in they will be outlawed someone needs to do independant research for our unique sport to get a fair representation of what works and what doesnt.
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Post by MadPhil53a on Apr 22, 2015 19:47:54 GMT 12
Looking at the remits I think most were put in from a supplier, Hans devices, ratchet belts and balaclava's all compulsory.
Who is to say any of these are a help to most of the classes or safety of competitors. Perhaps no one put in compulsory mouth guards because not as much money can be made from them. I have ratchet belts but along with Hans devices who can say they are that much better to make them compulsory.
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Post by bernie on Apr 22, 2015 19:48:41 GMT 12
If you ever wondered why the cost of our sport continues to spiral, here it is,one do gooder cost at a time, and thats what this is about, self serving do gooders .This so typical of NZ today, I believe therefore I will impose my opinion and my will on everyone else. Minorities rule.
There is not one shred of impericle evidence that supports compulsory neck restraints in any class.
If you choose to wear one good on you, but don't make it compulsory for everyone else.
The horse has bolted on some classes, but leave the rest alone.
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Post by tank11 on Apr 22, 2015 22:33:58 GMT 12
When they say approved head restraint who is approving them? fia? snz? I use a leatt brace moto r which has recently come into the firing line with these rules but i find it to be the best device out. i have never been hurt dont even get belt bruising or a sore neck after racing. they teather your head in and dont put any pressure on your collar bones but also collar your neck like a foam roll, i consider them to be perfect for stockcars. and with reputable users like bruce harding and brendan higgins they must be working but if these rules come in they will be outlawed someone needs to do independant research for our unique sport to get a fair representation of what works and what doesnt. I'm with you mudman. We run Leatts as well. I did a lot of research before buying the first of 3, because i had separated C2 from C3 in my neck. Took years to get the Dr to ok me for racing, not so much from proddies to stocks. Had a major a few years back which wrote of my tank. Split my bladder but no neck trouble what so ever. Can't understand the anti to these braces, they work great, even if you forget to latch the tethers on. |
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Post by midway on Apr 22, 2015 22:46:21 GMT 12
Reading many posts it rather looks like it going to be the individuals choice as to wear and have for what ever they choose ..the points are taken that proper research maybe needed , but at what cost , more loss of life in the sport as we continue to see .
If these type of remits are needed in this sport to day nothing will ever eventuate to the satisfaction of those that have so many opinions ,questions and answers .
look at formula one racing for a example ,just imagine having the boy scouts movement and girl guides popping up every year with remits on safety .
As a sport a more solid platform needs to take place it is high time to adopt a far better approach to all matters arising ,and if it is not going to happen quickly ,it wont belong before the authorities of any government step in ,the cost to Acc is one classic example .
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Post by toolie on Apr 23, 2015 9:58:20 GMT 12
I understand from talking to people much smarter than myself, that when you ask the proper questions of the manufacturer of a lot of this type of equipment, it is simply not suitable for contact type racing. The seat foam should be replaced after each crash on some halo seats as per Nascar, that is possibly also true for the neck restraints. The testing the manufacturers do assumes either the wall (Nascar) the car or the wing (sprintcars) or all of those, to be energy absorbing crumple zones which greatly soften the time signature of the impact. They have no information on 1.5 ton stock-cars hitting each other or a concrete wall. We are kind of on our own. Strangely enough, if you protect the neck, you appear to transfer more energy more quickly to the brain, perhaps more KO's? ?? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 20:02:09 GMT 12
I understand from talking to people much smarter than myself, that when you ask the proper questions of the manufacturer of a lot of this type of equipment, it is simply not suitable for contact type racing. The seat foam should be replaced after each crash on some halo seats as per Nascar, that is possibly also true for the neck restraints. The testing the manufacturers do assumes either the wall (Nascar) the car or the wing (sprintcars) or all of those, to be energy absorbing crumple zones which greatly soften the time signature of the impact. They have no information on 1.5 ton stock-cars hitting each other or a concrete wall. We are kind of on our own. Strangely enough, if you protect the neck, you appear to transfer more energy more quickly to the brain, perhaps more KO's? ?? simple and well written, and the point many are trying to get across. |
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The only time he got knocked out was when we put in a full containment seat. Once we cut off the head restraints and went back to a head net it never happened again. It's not what we did though, it's about getting proper research done for our solid steel chassis' so we get it right.