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Post by Jumper on Sept 15, 2015 10:40:31 GMT 12
There certainly needs to be some tidy ups with rules and not rules for rules sake. Safety rules need to be across the board as you would imagine safety concerns same for all classes. If seatbelts are built to same standard why would some classes be allowed 5 years and others need to change every two years. Same with helmets. Different ratings came in for open wheel classes a few years ago if I remember correctly. Fire extinguishers need to readily available if required but at same time not become a hazard to driver either by position or if it comes loose in an accident a flying missile. Though if your car is on fire standard behaviour would be bail out not try to put it out. In regards to the hubs, Were they dangerous. If yes and likely to fail, then they should have been banned immediately. If not but but likelihood they could fail then look at how to manage the issue. Increased checks? by specialist scrutineer every so many meetings. If probably would not fail but deemed to be a possible issue then a phase out period of a couple of years.
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Sept 15, 2015 19:34:46 GMT 12
By my count we've around 2000 today. The number your looking for is 2,580 licensed competitors per the 2014/15 statistical snapshot available on the SNZ website with the 2014/15 AGM minutes. A 2% increase on the previous year. I assume the 2580 licenced competitors included youth ministocks, which my figure doesn't. Regardless, point is clearly made, the SNZ Board has fallen a long way short of it's goal, in reality gone backwards. The measure of success is competitor numbers, all else plays second fiddle.
The key words used by the SNZ Board to achieve the increases they hoped for was by 'REDUCING Barriers to entry'. This identifies that the Board was aware that SNZ rules were not all required and or over the top. So, what reductions have the Board made in the last 6 years to achieve it's stated goal?
If we don't change, nothing is going to change, except for the worst, and that appears to be the present direction.
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Post by TimSOZ on Sept 15, 2015 20:14:41 GMT 12
As mentioned in the post when I provided the link, this plan did not find favour with delegates at the 2009 AGM, so its a little unfair to blame the Board...but of all people Murray should remember that as he was an unsuccessful candidate for the Board at that AGM. Therefore the plan had to be shelved as there was no mandate for it, and it was back to the drawing board. Only two of that Board remain out of interest too.
The whole point of the post was to outline that until there is consensus at a decision making level (which includes AGM delegates who wield the majority of power), then there won't be as much forward progress as some would like.
In terms of reducing barriers to entry there have been many, but clearly there's more to be done to outline the changes in simple, easy to understand language. Allowing Bathurst Days, Have a Go/Picnic Days, a new Derby licence, simplified rules, engine trials, training programmes with the first session free, Streetcar races etc etc all make it easier for potential competitors to get behind the wheel.
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Post by spdwayorthehway on Sept 15, 2015 23:21:01 GMT 12
The number your looking for is 2,580 licensed competitors per the 2014/15 statistical snapshot available on the SNZ website with the 2014/15 AGM minutes. A 2% increase on the previous year. I assume the 2580 licenced competitors included youth ministocks, which my figure doesn't. Regardless, point is clearly made, the SNZ Board has fallen a long way short of it's goal, in reality gone backwards. The measure of success is competitor numbers, all else plays second fiddle.
The key words used by the SNZ Board to achieve the increases they hoped for was by 'REDUCING Barriers to entry'. This identifies that the Board was aware that SNZ rules were not all required and or over the top. So, what reductions have the Board made in the last 6 years to achieve it's stated goal?
If we don't change, nothing is going to change, except for the worst, and that appears to be the present direction.
Regarding the graph Murray, April 16th,,,,, What year? Those numbers don't stack up against the Woodford Glen web site. I were over in Greymouth a couple of years ago and from memory they had a good field of Streetstocks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 7:07:20 GMT 12
I assume the 2580 licenced competitors included youth ministocks, which my figure doesn't. Regardless, point is clearly made, the SNZ Board has fallen a long way short of it's goal, in reality gone backwards. The measure of success is competitor numbers, all else plays second fiddle.
The key words used by the SNZ Board to achieve the increases they hoped for was by 'REDUCING Barriers to entry'. This identifies that the Board was aware that SNZ rules were not all required and or over the top. So, what reductions have the Board made in the last 6 years to achieve it's stated goal?
If we don't change, nothing is going to change, except for the worst, and that appears to be the present direction.
Regarding the graph Murray, April 16th,,,,, What year? Those numbers don't stack up against the Woodford Glen web site. I were over in Greymouth a couple of years ago and from memory they had a good field of Streetstocks. Im just sayin - but speedway track sites arent the moet regularly updated when it comes to this kind of thing... Just because theres a good field of streetstocks at one track doesnt mean they havent plummeted to nearly nothing somewhere else.
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Post by epmurc on Sept 17, 2015 21:46:33 GMT 12
Dragging this thread back to it's original topic......................
If I read the rules correctly, and I'm certainly in the poop if I haven't, 6 pin rears are still allowable for Modifieds and can be used on the right rear as long as he centres are a minimum of 10mm thick.
I'd have thought that given their higher speeds at corner entering there'd be more stress placed on a Mod right rear than a Saloon, so if they're OK for Mods why not Saloons. Or am I missing something here?
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Post by mod46c on Sept 18, 2015 10:12:47 GMT 12
Dragging this thread back to it's original topic...................... If I read the rules correctly, and I'm certainly in the poop if I haven't, 6 pin rears are still allowable for Modifieds and can be used on the right rear as long as he centres are a minimum of 10mm thick. I'd have thought that given their higher speeds at corner entering there'd be more stress placed on a Mod right rear than a Saloon, so if they're OK for Mods why not Saloons. Or am I missing something here? Your assuming that the modified rules take precedent over the general rules (which is how I would expect conflicts to be resolved), how conflicts are resolved isn't defined. Modifieds ended up with 10mm centres because the Christchurch drivers picked up there was an issue with 6mm centres and submitted a remit which mutated into 10mm centres.
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Sept 19, 2015 9:22:11 GMT 12
Still NO answer from SNZ or anybody that comes close to validating this ridiculous situation in regards my 6 pins.
As for Tim's constant defensive contributions, wouldn't have a clue what he's on about as they have always been approved by SNZ at green sheet time. I acknowledge that in recent seasons, again, for reasons unknown, they have looked closely at them to ensure fit for purpose (no cracks). Still no explanation as to why some classes but not saloons.
I bought the car with 6 pins to the rear, holden stub on the front. Prior to my purchase it was a super saloon (actually a Kuriger built for Maurice Cowling).
I have never had an issue with them, nor seen an issue with them, other than as with any wheel, incorrect fitting loose nut(s).
I have now spoken to a SNZ tech official who says I can remove the 6 x pins in each hub and replace them with studs. Provided I have my 6 pin wheels rebated to match the new nuts. In effect, NO different to a wide 5.
Problem is, despite having spoken directly to an approved SNZ tech official, with the Baypark promoter party to the discussion, do I proceed as common sense says, rely on the official advice? Am I going to turn up to green sheeting, scrutinerring and find a 'Tim type' who says, "you can't race as your rear wheels and hubs are not compliant?"
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Post by midway on Sept 19, 2015 15:07:37 GMT 12
Has nobody ever informed you when in doubt get it in writing first ...?? Hasnt Tim moved on from being head ring master of circus at the big top SNz events centre ..
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Post by beachboy on Sept 19, 2015 18:14:46 GMT 12
Still NO answer from SNZ or anybody that comes close to validating this ridiculous situation in regards my 6 pins.
As for Tim's constant defensive contributions, wouldn't have a clue what he's on about as they have always been approved by SNZ at green sheet time. I acknowledge that in recent seasons, again, for reasons unknown, they have looked closely at them to ensure fit for purpose (no cracks). Still no explanation as to why some classes but not saloons.
I bought the car with 6 pins to the rear, holden stub on the front. Prior to my purchase it was a super saloon (actually a Kuriger built for Maurice Cowling).
I have never had an issue with them, nor seen an issue with them, other than as with any wheel, incorrect fitting loose nut(s).
I have now spoken to a SNZ tech official who says I can remove the 6 x pins in each hub and replace them with studs. Provided I have my 6 pin wheels rebated to match the new nuts. In effect, NO different to a wide 5.
Problem is, despite having spoken directly to an approved SNZ tech official, with the Baypark promoter party to the discussion, do I proceed as common sense says, rely on the official advice? Am I going to turn up to green sheeting, scrutinerring and find a 'Tim type' who says, "you can't race as your rear wheels and hubs are not compliant?"
Ahhh you mean just like going to the council to try and sort something out
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Sept 19, 2015 18:33:04 GMT 12
Ahhh you mean just like going to the council to try and sort something out Spent much of my later years supporting folks efforts in their dealings with bureaucrats at city hall! Exactly the same in all respects, mostly the same mind-sets.... ... and so unnecessary.
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Post by tank11 on Sept 19, 2015 18:37:36 GMT 12
Ahhh you mean just like going to the council to try and sort something out Spent much of my later years supporting folks efforts in their dealings with bureaucrats at city hall! Exactly the same in all respects, mostly the same mind-sets.... ... and so unnecessary.
Don't bite back Murray, he's just fishing for bites.
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Post by japsuper on Sept 19, 2015 20:50:00 GMT 12
Following from Murrays post, can't see how fitting studs and tapering the wheels holes is going to be legal. The issue is that the wheel centres don't comply. New cut plate centres to the SNZ drawings, yes that may be OK, but then will they say that the now 6 stud hub isn't legal. What everyone else who runs a Wide 5 on the front of their car perhaps doesn't realise, is that their USA made pressed centre wheels technically don't comply. The approval is granted for new wheels purchased from Cardwells and Bayspeed. Boy theres going to be some poo poos go down if they start telling us we have to go and buy new front wheels.
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Post by imasinnr on Sept 20, 2015 8:01:33 GMT 12
if you can get your local profile cutter to cut 4 or 5 of these out of 10mm plate and the new shape wide five centers as well ...it will be a bit cheaper to change your centers on your rims ...but it still doesnt change the problem of snz making silly desicions with out cosultation . thats my opinion anyway www.speedwaymotors.com/Wide-5-Wheel-Adapter-to-6-Pin-Sprint-Car-Hub-Pattern,29220.html ooopps looks like a discontinued item try google search... Wide 5 Wheel Adapter to 6-Pin Sprint Car Hub Pattern
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Post by joe on Sept 20, 2015 10:12:11 GMT 12
If the original problem was people using spacers with thinner gauge centres and the Centre axle nut coming loose wouldn't it have made more sense to change the rule that if 6 pin Hubs were going to be used they would have to be used in conjunction with a 10mm centre to eliminate the use of spacers(No arguements, would have to be followed by drivers & enforced by Scrutineers). This way the Hub and Wheel centre would be used as designed and stop any centre axle nuts coming loose. If this was an option & enforced it would save a lot of people a lot of money having to replace perfectly good Hubs. I know a guy who has been putting a car together over the last couple of seasons and is gutted as he has 3 sets of 6 pin hubs and 10 Brand New rims that are now unuseable, Crazy!!!
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Post by penman on Sept 20, 2015 11:54:07 GMT 12
Spent much of my later years supporting folks efforts in their dealings with bureaucrats at city hall! Exactly the same in all respects, mostly the same mind-sets.... ... and so unnecessary.
Don't bite back Murray, he's just fishing for bites. How unusual. ...and so unnecessary
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Post by dontpanic on Sept 20, 2015 19:42:04 GMT 12
Pasting this from the last SNZ newsletter, I guess this will cover the majority of existing wheels. Brendon
OLD WHEELS/CENTRES Your old wheels/centres will need to be checked by a tech steward. They will be checked against the approved version to make sure they meet specification. If they meet the requirements then they will be stamped with the SNZ APPROVED STAMP. If wheels do not meet the specification then the wheels are not approved.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:28:12 GMT 12
FOUND A FIX!!!! www.mpdracing.com/products/Drive-Stud-Sprint-Car-6-Pin-Hub.htmluse these suckers - instead of drilling etc, they screw right in turning your "six pin hubs" into six STUD hubs. no longer need to worry about illegal hubs and rims as six stud is legal and six pin is not. Use these and you dont have six pin you have six stud.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:34:51 GMT 12
I think theyr designed for midgets though.
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Post by tank11 on Sept 21, 2015 19:59:47 GMT 12
I think theyr designed for midgets though. Well, just let the shorter people use them then. Murray's not that tall.
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