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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 14:45:35 GMT 12
Think about this for a moment before firing off either way and I'd really love to hear from those racing in the classes how they feel.
I reckon we need to stop getting all bent out of shape about stockcars (et al) "cutting the corner" by running the left front wheel over the pole line. I think we need a rule change that says you are cutting the corner if you have two or more wheels over the pole line.
It is already a rule in other race classes and I can't see why it wouldn't work in stockcars. We are a sideways sport thru the turns and it just makes sense to me that with the shape and width of our tracks that it would improve things. The rule as it stands now is almost unenforceable and if you think about it, how often does a driver actually gain advantage by doing so. It would also cut down the occasions where a driver has been pinged for doing so, where he has come close, but done no such thing. It is much easier to see a car get unsettled when he has run both left side wheels over the pole line than it is with one that it's tettering on the pole line.
That's my reckons anyway, be interested to hear how much support there is, or reasons why it wouldn't work as well as it does in other classes.
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Post by tank11 on Jan 15, 2018 17:16:34 GMT 12
Think about this for a moment before firing off either way and I'd really love to hear from those racing in the classes how they feel. I reckon we need to stop getting all bent out of shape about stockcars (et al) "cutting the corner" by running the left front wheel over the pole line. I think we need a rule change that says you are cutting the corner if you have two or more wheels over the pole line. It is already a rule in other race classes and I can't see why it wouldn't work in stockcars. We are a sideways sport thru the turns and it just makes sense to me that with the shape and width of our tracks that it would improve things. The rule as it stands now is almost unenforceable and if you think about it, how often does a driver actually gain advantage by doing so. It would also cut down the occasions where a driver has been pinged for doing so, where he has come close, but done no such thing. It is much easier to see a car get unsettled when he has run both left side wheels over the pole line than it is with one that it's tettering on the pole line. That's my reckons anyway, be interested to hear how much support there is, or reasons why it wouldn't work as well as it does in other classes. I thought it was TWO wheels anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 17:30:02 GMT 12
R12-3-27 A competitor can be penalised for placing one or more
wheels off the racing surface.
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Post by Driftwood on Jan 15, 2018 18:15:59 GMT 12
I'm hearing you Ramjam a few weeks ago at the Canterbury Streetstock Champs my left front wheel went on to the concrete pole line in turn 1 or 2. My punishment from SNZ was I get relegated two positions even through I didn't pass a car . Now I could except the punishment if it was consistent with every car on the track that night but there is know way it can be policed 100% when around 40 to 60% of competitors would have done the same. So yes I agree with you two wheels should be the punishment zone it would be easier and fairer to police and That's my story.
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Post by Tapped on Jan 15, 2018 18:23:51 GMT 12
Almost every race, it seems as thro most competitors can be seen dragging the left front at some point in the process of going thru turns 1/2 and 3/4 and yet nothing seems to come from it. Granted we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, or what the ref's do behind the scenes.
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Post by tank11 on Jan 15, 2018 18:24:49 GMT 12
R12-3-27 A competitor can be penalised for placing one or more wheels off the racing surface. Third word "can" Normally doesn't start until 2 wheels. |
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Post by Jeffery on Jan 15, 2018 19:02:44 GMT 12
Think about this for a moment before firing off either way and I'd really love to hear from those racing in the classes how they feel. I reckon we need to stop getting all bent out of shape about stockcars (et al) "cutting the corner" by running the left front wheel over the pole line. I think we need a rule change that says you are cutting the corner if you have two or more wheels over the pole line. It is already a rule in other race classes and I can't see why it wouldn't work in stockcars. We are a sideways sport thru the turns and it just makes sense to me that with the shape and width of our tracks that it would improve things. The rule as it stands now is almost unenforceable and if you think about it, how often does a driver actually gain advantage by doing so. It would also cut down the occasions where a driver has been pinged for doing so, where he has come close, but done no such thing. It is much easier to see a car get unsettled when he has run both left side wheels over the pole line than it is with one that it's tettering on the pole line. That's my reckons anyway, be interested to hear how much support there is, or reasons why it wouldn't work as well as it does in other classes. How about just enforcing the rules as they stand? Pole line is always mentioned in drivers meetings as not being part of the race track, one wheel or more means you are cutting it. |
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Post by Admin on Jan 15, 2018 19:53:57 GMT 12
Think about this for a moment before firing off either way and I'd really love to hear from those racing in the classes how they feel. I reckon we need to stop getting all bent out of shape about stockcars (et al) "cutting the corner" by running the left front wheel over the pole line. I think we need a rule change that says you are cutting the corner if you have two or more wheels over the pole line. It is already a rule in other race classes and I can't see why it wouldn't work in stockcars. We are a sideways sport thru the turns and it just makes sense to me that with the shape and width of our tracks that it would improve things. The rule as it stands now is almost unenforceable and if you think about it, how often does a driver actually gain advantage by doing so. It would also cut down the occasions where a driver has been pinged for doing so, where he has come close, but done no such thing. It is much easier to see a car get unsettled when he has run both left side wheels over the pole line than it is with one that it's tettering on the pole line. That's my reckons anyway, be interested to hear how much support there is, or reasons why it wouldn't work as well as it does in other classes. How about just enforcing the rules as they stand? Pole line is always mentioned in drivers meetings as not being part of the race track, one wheel or more means you are cutting it. How do you know the rules aren't enforced? just guessing? |
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Post by Jeffery on Jan 15, 2018 20:01:05 GMT 12
How about just enforcing the rules as they stand? Pole line is always mentioned in drivers meetings as not being part of the race track, one wheel or more means you are cutting it. How do you know the rules aren't enforced? just guessing? How do you know they are? Heard of no relegations over the weekend at NZ superstocks despite constant and obvious wheels over pole line evident by dust being kicked up |
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Post by Admin on Jan 15, 2018 20:07:41 GMT 12
How do you know the rules aren't enforced? just guessing? How do you know they are? Heard of no relegations over the weekend at NZ superstocks despite constant and obvious wheels over pole line evident by dust being kicked up so because you heard of no relegations then the rules weren't enforced? What rule say there must be a relegation for those offences? |
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Post by Jeffery on Jan 15, 2018 20:21:32 GMT 12
How do you know they are? Heard of no relegations over the weekend at NZ superstocks despite constant and obvious wheels over pole line evident by dust being kicked up so because you heard of no relegations then the rules weren't enforced? What rule say there must be a relegation for those offences? Doesn’t say they must be penalised, says they can be per Ramjams post earlier. Replace that rule with another and you’ll get people flaunting/bending that one |
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Post by TimSOZ on Jan 15, 2018 20:24:05 GMT 12
At a NZ Champs, the only penalties for infringements such as these should be relegations....otherwise you could basically buy a title by paying a fine.
Ramjam, the same rule applies to all classes, it's just enforced even less in open wheelers etc. it's why there are big equipment tyres patrolling the poleline in Australia...can't argue with one of those.
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Post by maninstand on Jan 15, 2018 21:23:36 GMT 12
I actually seen no pole cutting maybe I was wrong. Think maybe 2NZ but it looked like he re addressed which I think will become the norm now
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Post by beachboy on Jan 15, 2018 21:27:17 GMT 12
While we are at it make the Stockcar class run one race per meeting clockwise like street stocks do. It will bring the costs down with more standardisation as people won’t want to build-engineer off set stuff and fancy diff’s that break all the time. Also no need to carry different size spares for each side of the car. Will also slow them down and show more of a difference between Superstocks and Stockcars. Start it off at a club level and then in 5 years time make it compulsory at national titles. This will allow people the time to adjust and use up gear and chassis before the main changeover. Some may want to stay slightly off set to have an advantage over 2 races. Interesting to watch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 21:39:19 GMT 12
While we are at it make the Stockcar class run one race per meeting clockwise like street stocks do. It will bring the costs down with more standardisation as people won’t want to build-engineer off set stuff and fancy diff’s that break all the time. Also no need to carry different size spares for each side of the car. Will also slow them down and show more of a difference between Superstocks and Stockcars. Start it off at a club level and then in 5 years time make it compulsory at national titles. This will allow people the time to adjust and use up gear and chassis before the main changeover. Some may want to stay slightly off set to have an advantage over 2 races. Interesting to watch. You are just being plain stupid now.. lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 5:10:52 GMT 12
Ramjam, the same rule applies to all classes. R9-3-13 (a) A rider/sidecar team whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels must be disqualified |
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Post by tony27 on Jan 16, 2018 10:51:32 GMT 12
Reality of that 1 is that it generally ends in a crash anyway so disqualification probably isn't used much anyway
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kd
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Post by kd on Jan 16, 2018 13:41:44 GMT 12
At a NZ Champs, the only penalties for infringements such as these should be relegations....otherwise you could basically buy a title by paying a fine. Ramjam, the same rule applies to all classes, it's just enforced even less in open wheelers etc. it's why there are big equipment tyres patrolling the poleline in Australia...can't argue with one of those. Last time I got an infringement for passing over the poleline at a regular meeting I was told they only do relegations now, fines are pointless, which is fair enough.
As for infield tractor tires and/or barriers, well the only people who think those are a good idea are paper pushing officials and the parts salesmen. Any real racer knows those infield tires/barriers cause unneccesary extra damage.
How about that great idea of filling the infield barriers with water Tim? Avalon Speedway, World Series Sprintcars, wasnt it? That worked well when a barrier got punctured, ruptured water onto the racing surface and 3/4 of the cars in the race got wiped out. Brilliant idea. . . . .
Same goes for tractor tires, wipe out a front end of a Sprintcar at full speed on an infield tire and you now have an out of control car heading towards the infield, track staff, the wall, other racers, who knows.
Easy to be a fan of infield barriers when you never see the damage bill.
The real answer to this whole question is to build up a curved 1 foot tall lip on the inside of the track, (dirt, concrete, plastic, whatever) big enough to unsettle a car and take away any advantage of being over the poleline but small enough that it doesnt wreck racers gear. The other part is to add 10 to 20 degrees of banking to the outside half of all tracks so cars arent forced to run the poleline every meeting to make fast laps.
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Post by Jeffery on Jan 16, 2018 14:11:17 GMT 12
Watch the start of this video - a number of cars who put a wheel or two over the pole line and gained an advantage out of it either by passing one car or multiple, 46B, 99H, 282S... and they're just the cars who went past the 316H. Start enforcing the current rule and we might actually see more cars staying on the "Racing Surface". Even if you dont pass a car with a wheel on/over the poleline you can still gain an advantage by doing so.. stay in tight enough on the corner to avoid the ruts and bumps in which the car would otherwise be in by being that 1/4 or 1/2 car over, gaining 0.5 or more seconds per lap.. adds up over the distance of a race
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Post by tank11 on Jan 16, 2018 15:28:07 GMT 12
At a NZ Champs, the only penalties for infringements such as these should be relegations....otherwise you could basically buy a title by paying a fine. Ramjam, the same rule applies to all classes, it's just enforced even less in open wheelers etc. it's why there are big equipment tyres patrolling the poleline in Australia...can't argue with one of those. Last time I got an infringement for passing over the poleline at a regular meeting I was told they only do relegations now, fines are pointless, which is fair enough.
As for infield tractor tires and/or barriers, well the only people who think those are a good idea are paper pushing officials and the parts salesmen. Any real racer knows those infield tires/barriers cause unneccesary extra damage.
How about that great idea of filling the infield barriers with water Tim? Avalon Speedway, World Series Sprintcars, wasnt it? That worked well when a barrier got punctured, ruptured water onto the racing surface and 3/4 of the cars in the race got wiped out. Brilliant idea. . . . .
Same goes for tractor tires, wipe out a front end of a Sprintcar at full speed on an infield tire and you now have an out of control car heading towards the infield, track staff, the wall, other racers, who knows.
Easy to be a fan of infield barriers when you never see the damage bill.
The real answer to this whole question is to build up a curved 1 foot tall lip on the inside of the track, (dirt, concrete, plastic, whatever) big enough to unsettle a car and take away any advantage of being over the poleline but small enough that it doesnt wreck racers gear. The other part is to add 10 to 20 degrees of banking to the outside half of all tracks so cars arent forced to run the poleline every meeting to make fast laps.
After seeing what a sidecar can do to a tire, I'd suggest no to using them near the race line. Stu moved it about 15 metres, he flew abut 20. |
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