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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jan 18, 2009 15:31:27 GMT 12
SALOON NZGP at KIHIKIHI ... put in the tissues mother
.. Wild times are to be had on the ranch! 
33 Saloons competing for the NZGP Saloon title
... on a track none have raced on,
... most having never raced on reasonable banking,
... many rarely raced anywhere but their home track,
... and a few very fresh rookies ... - Seems to me the sooner a pre-qualifying criteria and process is adopted by SNZ for National Championship meetings the better for all concerned.
- Seems to me the 'World 240's' will be tame by comparison!
Entries for AmBreed New Zealand Saloon Grand Prix as of 16/01/091) 1NZM Brent McClymont - 09/01 2) 3NZM Terry Corin - 12/01 (Postmarked 10/01) 3) 05K Graham Brockelsby - 07/01 4) 07K Joshua Cresswell - 08/01 5) 10M Neil Head - 09/01 6) 13R Murray Guy - 29/12 7) 14M Geoff Kaye - 29/12 8) 17R Tony Heuvel - 09/01 9) 17H Andrew Ross - 14/01 (Postmarked 10/01) 10) 21H Steve Williams - 07/01 11) 26A Brendan Stuckey - 08/01 12) 27A Stephen Corry - 09/01 13) 43H Aaron Tonks - 07/01 14) 45M Paul Cressy - 07/01 15) 46A Nigel Ross - 09/01 16) 48A Phil Towgood - 07/01 17) 61A Roy Walker - 07/01 18) 63H Nigel Mouat - Via Rep 19) 67H Scott Wilkins - 08/01 20) 68M Steve Cowling - 09/01 21) 69K Michael Wilson - 06/01 22) 69M Jeff Barron - 14/01 (Postmarked 10/01) 23) 74A Scott Lansdowne - 09/01 24) 75M Michelle Wymer - 07/01 25) 75A Craig Duthie - 09/01 26) 77K Ross Cresswell - 08/01 27) 78A Dave Fisher - Via Rep 28) 78M Mike Balsom - 31/12 29) 82M Paul Managh - 08/01 30) 83H Nigel Harlen - 08/01 31) 97K Debra Brockelsby - 07/01 32) 98H Greg Powell - Via Rep 33) 98M Scott Fraser - 05/01 Track BreakdownAuckland: 8 Huntly: 7 Kihikihi: 5 Rotorua: 2 Tauranga: 11 Total: 33I wonder what the SNZ Officials will be focusing on this championship meeting.
Anybody with an over width cup holder fitted?
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Post by DTM1 on Jan 18, 2009 15:56:01 GMT 12
What sort of pre qualifying criterior do you suggest Murray?
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Post by Speedway Central (David) on Jan 18, 2009 15:58:51 GMT 12
All in for 3 heats ;D. Was 36 Stockcars in BOP Champs
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Post by Speedway Central (David) on Jan 18, 2009 16:04:41 GMT 12
get Steve down there to do measurements and get the angles, so you can get the right setup.
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jan 18, 2009 16:23:13 GMT 12
What sort of pre qualifying criterior do you suggest Murray? At the Super Saloon champs in cromwell just completed I was not alone with the thought that there were a few competitors that qute plainly, represented a huge risk to fellow competitors and reduced the mana of the event. We have the rare competitor that wipes the cobwebs of his car in the barn to compete, but not his brain, creates carnage and after the even returns the car to the barn! I'm sure there has to be many options. - Perhaps a series of qualifying meetings around the country
- Minimum completed race meetings increased
- Existing Champs 1, 2, 3 should automatically qualify (EG: Phil Towgood could be taken out by a loose cannon in the qualifying process - spectators want to see the champs in the finals)
Curious:
How many other forms of motorsport have a one day, one event to determine a New Zealand Champion?
How many other forms of motorsport allow anyone with any level of experience and or skill level to participate in a National Title? |
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Post by mrstttttt on Jan 18, 2009 16:46:05 GMT 12
While I agree with a couple of your points Murray, would this not change the class into rookies, slow saloons, slow but competitive saloons, competitive loose canons, it starts to read like the Super and A-grade classes in the south Island.
That 1nz, 2nz and 3nz should not have to qualify has its merits but also changes the fairness of the system. They should still have to qualify in with all the other competitors just the same as all the other competitors.
I worry a little about some of the rookies, but some of them come through from the Ministock class and drive very very well, better in some cases than some of the old farts out there that have been racing for years but still haven't got it right.
Who should be in and who should be out. In all fairness you must include all who wish to have a go at the title and hope that your luck holds.
I get more annoyed at championships run at tracks that insist on only a limited amount of competitors because they don't want to run x-amount of heats and competitors miss out because they did not apply in time.
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Post by schumaaka on Jan 18, 2009 17:04:42 GMT 12
Hi Guys can someone let me know where the 2010 saloon champs, gp and nth islands are???
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Jan 18, 2009 17:28:42 GMT 12
Hi Guys can someone let me know where the 2010 saloon champs, gp and nth islands are???
NOBODY answer these questions from maaka ...
Unless he is offering to prep the tracks! ;D ;D Mrs TTTT (Towgood) contributes: "That 1nz, 2nz and 3nz should not have to qualify has its merits but also changes the fairness of the system."What is fair about a format that allows a complete rookie in a class to wipe out an existing NZ Champ, denying him/her from participating and the spectators from witnessing? How does this add value to the event? To have regional and or track qualifying events may be good for our class and the clubs by ensuring contracted drivers earnt their stripes before entering national events.  NZ Championship events should not be used for the purpose of boosting egos or gaining experience - do that at regional . local champ meetings, novelty meetings! |
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Post by mod46c on Jan 18, 2009 17:35:35 GMT 12
Time trials, if you can't get your car up to a competitive speed you're on the trailer.
Or as they have done at Indy for many a year rookie tests, where you have to get up to speed and have your driving ability assessed.
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Post by schumaaka on Jan 18, 2009 17:58:48 GMT 12
I have always been in favor of all comers for qualifying.
you will see that this year at the nationals for supers we departed from the norm and ran 4 qualifying heats to find the top 18 and then the last 2 came thru the repercharge.
The heats worked out well with 2inside and 2 outside draws and and equal number of cars to pass for all. 14 heats and no protests.
Some flat tyres and a diff failure however with 4 heats what I expected for the top 20 was pretty close.
The current 20 car finals I struggle with, the racing is exciting for the crowd however often it is an anti climax as prople have to sit down and work out the points.
when I look at both Cromwell and Dunedin I think a 4th 20 car race being the final and first across the line would have been a great way to seal it.
Just think about how often you see 1 crash clean out half the field.
3 Finals heats for points and then a 20-25 lap final great for the crowd and the drivers.
And yes I agree that the national title should be spread over several meetings, it should be points based like they have been doing with the dhl series and also the Nth Island supersaloon series.
Spanz is the body that is preventing this and crippling the sport.
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Post by drew on Jan 18, 2009 18:19:26 GMT 12
What sort of pre qualifying criterior do you suggest Murray? At the Super Saloon champs in cromwell just completed I was not alone with the thought that there were a few competitors that qute plainly, represented a huge risk to fellow competitors and reduced the mana of the event. We have the rare competitor that wipes the cobwebs of his car in the barn to compete, but not his brain, creates carnage and after the even returns the car to the barn! I'm sure there has to be many options. - Perhaps a series of qualifying meetings around the country
- Minimum completed race meetings increased
- Existing Champs 1, 2, 3 should automatically qualify (EG: Phil Towgood could be taken out by a loose cannon in the qualifying process - spectators want to see the champs in the finals)
Curious:
How many other forms of motorsport have a one day, one event to determine a New Zealand Champion?
How many other forms of motorsport allow anyone with any level of experience and or skill level to participate in a National Title?How is it that those who think they are at the top, with sufficient experience or the "mana" to compete in a national title can dictate who can or cant compete in a national title? "sorry you cant enter the NZGP because those blokes over there think you are a loose canon, and you have not gained sufficent mana levels yet...." I think its just plain rude. Is it wrong I am of the opinion that everyone is allowed to have a go? Drew |
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Post by DTM1 on Jan 18, 2009 18:29:57 GMT 12
Your thoughts definately have merit Murray and while the "fairness" factor in allowing anyone to run who has done X amount of meetings is valid,an event like the National Title should be about highlighting the best of the best and nothing else,especially if the "fairness" factor has the potential to destroy more than what it contributes.
Personally, i believe the current champion and ONLY the current champion,should get a provisional start for the finals IF they fail to get through qualifying.If its a one race format for the final they run off the back and if a 3 race format they start the last race off the back.
As for qualifying races,in a perfect world the National Title would be decided over X amount of races at X amount of tracks,so qualifying races would be redundant.However,another option would be to run points based track championships of X amount of rounds as qualifying,so X amount of cars from that track gain automatic entry to the national finals...with all non qualifiers from around the country and any "specials", then getting to run a qualifying show to decide the final field for the Main Event.
No one misses out,local tracks have something to promote,you get to promote a last chance qualifying show either as part of the finals or as an independent show and ultimately the Main Event becomes about the best of the best.......a marketing dream.
The GP in my opinion is just another trophy and sash show in the current infrastructure.....what i favour for the GP events,is once again running the best of the best,but with entry open to Internationals which traditionally, is where the heart of a GP lies.....a locally based International Championship and once again something a lot more marketable for the track running it.
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Post by porry41 on Jan 18, 2009 18:36:08 GMT 12
is it to late to enter burp |
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Post by mrrx on Jan 18, 2009 18:51:13 GMT 12
i see here there is no comback on the experienced drivers that mabe when next to or behind the rokkie should maybe back off a little to see how lose he is . everyone needs race room but most just dont get it  |
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Post by Phil15T on Jan 18, 2009 18:51:52 GMT 12
It could be in Cromwell but dont let the cat out yet lol  What is wrong with our track prep murray. I hope we are up to standard......... Regards Phil |
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Post by percy on Jan 18, 2009 19:05:28 GMT 12
One possible option I've been thinking about for pre-qualifying is allocating spots in the NZ Champs to various events. For instance the winner of each of the following events would qualify for an entry to the NZ Champs:
- Auckland Saloon Champs
- Waikato Saloon Champs
- Tauranga Saloon Champs
- B.O.P Saloon Champs
- King Country Champs etc
Other events could also attract a spot, particularly at tracks that are strong in the class. For instance Baypark may be allocated a total of four positions which can be fought for over four seperate nights with the winner of each night earning a spot at the NZ Champs.
If you have already secured a spot then the next best qualifier would assume the entry spot to the NZ Champs.
I think such a system would see more drivers travelling to other tracks and trying to secure qualification. Bigger fields and better racing would be the result for the spectator. It would also mean that the NZ Champs would be the best vs the best.
Another benefit I see is that drivers will have their cars ready to race from day one and we would see better early season racing as drivers scramble to qualify at the first available opportunity.
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Post by mrstttttt on Jan 18, 2009 19:19:53 GMT 12
I'm sorry but some of the comments smack of "elitism". The clubs run their own race meetings and that is supposed to give each competitor a chance to get "prepared" to run with other competitors. The rules say "that you can not compete in any championship unless you have at least three meetings under your belt" don't they? I'm surprised that Rotorua let someone out there with only 2 race meetings out there. Especially when there was a limit on who got to race. Championships are run all through a season. If we ran it the way some are suggesting it would mean that championships would get pushed to the end of the season because that would give a clearer picture of who had the most points. With meetings being dictated by weather and other factors, surely that would cut down on the time frame for championships. Everyone should have the chance to compete on the same level as everyone else. I don't think time trials work that well either. 1st competitor gets a track that is probably too wet, the middle driver gets perhaps a perfect surface, where as the last man out gets a dustbowl. It might be fairer on tarmac, but clay is an ever changing surface. |
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hermo
Full Member
Posts: 199
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Post by hermo on Jan 18, 2009 19:21:04 GMT 12
Gee Murray not too long ago you were moaning about not enough competitors for the GP and now you want to decide who can and cant be in. WHO IS RUNNING THIS SHOW?
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Post by bdor on Jan 18, 2009 20:26:59 GMT 12
Cromwell best track in world Murray shame about self centred promotor
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Post by percy on Jan 18, 2009 20:32:24 GMT 12
Cromwell best track in world Murray shame about self centred promotor As a new member you may want to change/explain that posting |
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