national points series (Read 1,077 times)

[stretch67]

we have the Placemakers series and a few years ago we had the ITM series ..Why has there never been a national series for superstocks or is it too much of a logistical nightmare to organise or are there other mitigating circumstances.... as was bored at work the other night and came up with a format lol all we need now is SNZ ok and a major sponsor

[BarryB]

You might need a bit more than that too. I suspect with the amount of racing/teams/championships they already have, it's be pretty difficult to attract any great numbers to anything more, but in theory it'd be great. The World 240's, Global Challenge and the Palmy and Auckland Teams events take a massive toll on man, machine and cheque book, and that's without NZ, GP, NI/SI and local championshhip events that they all support.

I'm sure logistically it's possible, but realistically probably not - unless we could come up with a multi-million dollar sponsorship package that allows 30 drivers to quit work and become full-time race-car drivers.

[Admin]

Just as well I checked before I hit the 'Post' button because Barry has already said it .

I have an idea how something could work but really I think it's in the too hard basket because of attitudes and sponsorship conflicts etc.

[jordy77w]

Joe Faram had a really good idea about a new series not too long ago,

from memory, he had it all sorted out just needed drivers to be on board and obviously as macgor and barry have said, $$$ and sponsors

[rob258]

It works in the uk because thats what were used to could you imagine only having one track in the country running superstocks on a saturday night!! guys what youve got aint broke dont try and fix it

[wolfysmith]

Maybe not a National Points series, but how about a regional league whereby tracks were divided up into regional leagues (similar to american football).

Each track in their resepctive league running a round of the series (or multiple rounds) and say the top 10 from each league making the cut to face the top 10 from the other leagues in a one weekend series finale.

That way the drivers could stay relatively local and tracks would benefit from a relatively large influx of superstocks for their round(s) and maybe overcome some of the issues of variances in superstock numbers at tracks.

Or has this already been tried?

[carwrecker]

With the current attitudes and approach of SNZ and it Directors I think you would find this concept while probably good and well overdue would get kicked into touch in a heart beat.
They seem to be clamping down on the use of names and events that will detract from the perceived importance of their national and island title meetings.
The draw back to that of course is that anybody outside of SNZ can run what ever they want and call it what ever they want.
There for it is possible that we could see 17 New Zealand title meetings per year for every class that SNZ run.
16 at each of the non SNZ tracks scattered around NZ and 1 at the SNZ allocated track.
In theory we could end up with 17 NZ stockcar champions 17 Superstock champions and 17 of every other class that is run in speedway including all of the regional classes that SNZ will not allow NZ titles for.
One of the things I was trying to achieve in my time as a Director was to have SNZ prove ownership of its title meetings .
So that we could not end up with the above mentioned scenario.
I feel sure that if one of the bigger more organized SNZ tracks were to break away from SNZ ( something that I have heard fairly strong rumors of) we would be in exactly that position.
SNZ should be embracing these type of series .
In some classes it is the only way to guarantee decent fields at several tracks through out the country on a revolving basis rather that piss poor fields at more tracks.
I would be interested to hear more thoughts on this idea good or bad

[tiroto]

Nov 14, 2009 6:25:30 GMT 12 @carwrecker said:

With the current attitudes and approach of SNZ and it Directors I think you would find this concept while probably good and well overdue would get kicked into touch in a heart beat.
They seem to be clamping down on the use of names and events that will detract from the perceived importance of their national and island title meetings.
The draw back to that of course is that anybody outside of SNZ can run what ever they want and call it what ever they want.
There for it is possible that we could see 17 New Zealand title meetings per year for every class that SNZ run.
16 at each of the non SNZ tracks scattered around NZ and 1 at the SNZ allocated track.
In theory we could end up with 17 NZ stockcar champions 17 Superstock champions and 17 of every other class that is run in speedway including all of the regional classes that SNZ will not allow NZ titles for.
One of the things I was trying to achieve in my time as a Director was to have SNZ prove ownership of its title meetings .
So that we could not end up with the above mentioned scenario.
I feel sure that if one of the bigger more organized SNZ tracks were to break away from SNZ ( something that I have heard fairly strong rumors of) we would be in exactly that position.
SNZ should be embracing these type of series .
In some classes it is the only way to guarantee decent fields at several tracks through out the country on a revolving basis rather that piss poor fields at more tracks.
I would be interested to hear more thoughts on this idea good or bad

Here we go again - this thread sounds like a set up.
Don't know about you carwrecker - you tend to have a hidden motive to your replies. Your past history is to bring personal agendas and use Macgors to put down people from clubs including Rotorua. What sort of response are you expecting this time? I would be disappointed if Macgors is used for people to express their resentments, hurts and insecurities. I'll be watching where this thread goes - it appears to be heading in an uncomfortable direction.

[BarryB]

The "series" debate is a good one, and one I think will go under the blowtorch over the next few months. The problem is, most people with a firm point of view also have an agenda, and there is certainly no simple yes or no answer as to whether "series" are a good idea, or not. It's just not that simple......

[schumaaka]

There is a simple way to make this work nationally however the sport is such a mess that the other problems need fixing first.

The moneys easy, organizing it is easy, and it doesn't involve everyone quitting there day jobs.

However SNZ appear to be against any type of series. Series that are held nationally drag cars away from their contracted tracks and are hugely expensive to run if you run them in Saturday nights, as opposed to say a 7 night series like the DHL.

At the annual Spanz conference the delegates throw 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars of competitors money away every year.

I could be wrong but 2009 KihiKihi 40K and 2010 Rotorua 25K for the NZ Super stocks ?? For the same 2 years if memory serves me correctly Palmerston offered 70k and 60k

Thats $65,000 dollars down the drain, 2010 supers could have gone to Auckland for $25,000 but instead are going to Napier and racing for $10,000.

Another $10,000 down the drain. my point is Spanz delegates decide how much you shouldn't have to pay and the reason is??? its because thats in their best interests, not the sports and certainly not the competitors.

If you want a national series and a media presence and national rankings and championships at appropriate tracks then those things have to change first.

Those who where allocated titles don't have to even do a good job running it because they have to pay next to nothing to run it.

Promoters running SNZ and deciding the direction of this sport or lack of it is what keeps this sport broke.

Spanz, They throw away all this money and then want to spend Thousands of dollars on Bumper stickers? WTF

Its the drivers that pay to run this sport and its the promoters that have control of the sport and where we race and are not accountable for what they do.

Before you think that I am targeting just the promoters, your wrong its the relationship between Spanz and SNZ and competitors as well.

Peter Kuriger once said to me" its been this way for 25years why would you change it " probably sums it up the best.

We have the same number of competitors spread over more grades with less crowds and higher costs! yup why would you change it.

The last 25 years for all the work of those in control of the sport they have achieved nothing !!!!!

There is no place for more than 1 promoters rep on the board, they have a financial interest in existing tracks so shouldn't be there.

Spanz should be the forum for promoters and should never allocate SNZ's titles.

The SNZ national titles should be allocated by representatives of each grade voted for by the members of each grade in conjunction with SNZ. Reccomend rule changes and national ranking etc should all come from this committe.

The allocation committee should formulate the proposals for the members and negotiate with individual promoters for the running of each event.

If the Drivers decide that they want to run the national title at a certain track so be it. The way it currently is we simply get told where we are going and we find out what we get when we get there which its crazy and not financially sustainable.

If the choices are waikaraka for 25k Napier 10k and Cromwell for 15k we should be able to choose and not have the promoters tell us that we have to go to Napier for 10k

If the Super stocks want to support Rotorua for 25k instead of Palmy for 70k it should be their choice not Spanz.

If that grade want to run a NZ Super Saloon teams champs the committee should formulate it and then negotiate with a promoter/s to run it. pretty simple

These are some of the reasons why in my opinion we don't have a national series or a financially sustainable sport!

[carwrecker]

Nov 14, 2009 6:38:18 GMT 12 tiroto said:

Nov 14, 2009 6:25:30 GMT 12 @carwrecker said:

With the current attitudes and approach of SNZ and it Directors I think you would find this concept while probably good and well overdue would get kicked into touch in a heart beat.
They seem to be clamping down on the use of names and events that will detract from the perceived importance of their national and island title meetings.
The draw back to that of course is that anybody outside of SNZ can run what ever they want and call it what ever they want.
There for it is possible that we could see 17 New Zealand title meetings per year for every class that SNZ run.
16 at each of the non SNZ tracks scattered around NZ and 1 at the SNZ allocated track.
In theory we could end up with 17 NZ stockcar champions 17 Superstock champions and 17 of every other class that is run in speedway including all of the regional classes that SNZ will not allow NZ titles for.
One of the things I was trying to achieve in my time as a Director was to have SNZ prove ownership of its title meetings .
So that we could not end up with the above mentioned scenario.
I feel sure that if one of the bigger more organized SNZ tracks were to break away from SNZ ( something that I have heard fairly strong rumors of) we would be in exactly that position.
SNZ should be embracing these type of series .
In some classes it is the only way to guarantee decent fields at several tracks through out the country on a revolving basis rather that piss poor fields at more tracks.
I would be interested to hear more thoughts on this idea good or bad

Here we go again - this thread sounds like a set up.
Don't know about you carwrecker - you tend to have a hidden motive to your replies. Your past history is to bring personal agendas and use Macgors to put down people from clubs including Rotorua. What sort of response are you expecting this time? I would be disappointed if Macgors is used for people to express their resentments, hurts and insecurities. I'll be watching where this thread goes - it appears to be heading in an uncomfortable direction.

If being prepared to speak your mind in a public forum is having a secret agenda then I guess I have a secret agenda , although how secret is it if you tell everyone what you think
It has been my experience in life that generally speaking those who will not say what they think are the ones with the secret agenda.
And yes I spoke out against Rotoruas remits at the last AGM because I felt they were not good for the sport.
If thats what got me voted of the board then so be it at least I had the stuff to speak out publicly and not behind closed doors.

But back to the subject of national points series and traveling shows.
I believe that in order for some speedway classes to survive SNZ or someone else is going to need to push more of these type of events.
Just my thoughts ( secret agenda)

[bingsta]

This type of national series sounds good,and obviously from this post some people think that the money needed to run it wont be a problem,BUT has anyone actually talked to the drivers about what they think,or is it a "feild of dreams" scenario?,if you build it they will come.Done properlly by a good/great promotor this type of thing would be great for the sport of speedway,look at what crap is on sky sports!For the amount of time,money and effort I think a national points series would go down a treat,but needs t.v time and a professional promotion.

[k1w1taxi]

Nov 3, 2009 14:15:23 GMT 12 BarryB said:

You might need a bit more than that too. I suspect with the amount of racing/teams/championships they already have, it's be pretty difficult to attract any great numbers to anything more, but in theory it'd be great. The World 240's, Global Challenge and the Palmy and Auckland Teams events take a massive toll on man, machine and cheque book, and that's without NZ, GP, NI/SI and local championshhip events that they all support.

And the reason such a series could not be built around/include these (non Team) events? So what you would have is a points series including eg

World 240s
Global Challenge
Hoopla
West Coast Champs
Champion of Champions
City of Sails
GP
+ 1 or 2 more rounds per island

I would include the GP because quite frankly something needs to be done to improve this meet or dump it from the calendar altogether. NZ and Island champs should remain stand alone events.

Cheers
Lee

[wolfysmith]

I would have thought the point of any regional national series/points league would be one to encourage greater numbers at what would be your 'run-of-the-mill' track meetings.

I guess the idea (from my point of view) would be to remove meetings whereby several tracks up and down NZ are running half a dozen Superstocks each weekend. Wouldn't it be better to have drivers racing at regionalised events to give them more competition and in turn, give the fans races worth watching, whilst provide a competition that captures the imagination (and the wallets) of fans? It may also attract sponsorship that might otherwise never come speedway's way.

In the UK we have a season long National Series and World Final Qualification rounds, championship meetings and run-of-the-mill meetings all competed for over 50 odd meetings a season by a nucleaus of drivers.

F1 stock cars is limited to 'middle England' and that's why I suggested leagues or groups based on region, to ensure the travelling is not too expensive and time consuming for drivers and fans alike.