Multiple cars with identical numbers at same track (Read 4,041 times)

[BarryB]

Aaron Drever is proposing a remit whereby any competitor will be able to choose any number they like, to run both at their home track and nationally. For example, if you wanted #9 on your car and your track already had a #9, you'd still be able to put a #9 on your car. There could be two #9's, three #9's or six #9's both at your home track and another six at every track you went to - meaning A LOT when it came to National Championships.

His rationale is that because we have electronic lap scoring and because they do this in some classes in America, obviously disregarding the fact that clubs still have to have a manual backup for championship meetings, we should do the same. He feels its backwards and stupid that we try and have different numbers on every car on the track in any given class.

The question is, would you support such an idea? Should any driver be able to just slap any number he/she likes on the door, wing or tail tank of his or her race car, regardless of whether half a dozen or more have already chosen that same number? Or should we be trying to tidy the whole deal up (maybe with a National Number Register) and making every car look more professional and more identifiable to the paying fans?

[Admin]

' IT'S TIME I THINK

WE HAD A NATIONAL NUMBERING SYSTEM SO WE CAN STOP CONFUSING THE PAYING PUBLIC ABOUT WHO'S WHO WHEN ATTENDING THE BIG MEETINGS OR WHEN VISITING CARS COME TO TOWN . '

Not a lot has changed since 1998 when I shouted that on my site (knew nothing about upper and lower case use n the web back then)

[Skorp]

Jan 16, 2013 18:17:59 GMT 12 Admin said:

' IT'S TIME I THINK

WE HAD A NATIONAL NUMBERING SYSTEM SO WE CAN STOP CONFUSING THE PAYING PUBLIC ABOUT WHO'S WHO WHEN ATTENDING THE BIG MEETINGS OR WHEN VISITING CARS COME TO TOWN . '

Not a lot has changed since 1998 when I shouted that on my site (knew nothing about upper and lower case use n the web back then)

I agree totally. I also think its time the rules around 3-digit numbers were changed. Requiring drivers to apply for a 3-digit number is silly IMO, especially with competitor numbers in some classes being so high that they practically require some to have 3-digit numbers. Stockcar numbers here in Palmy alone are in the 90's last I heard, and there are 12 single/double digit numbers that aren't allowed if I have done my math correctly.

[Deleted]

Thats just stupid.

How the hell would we be able to tell the different drivers apart?

I can here the commentators now ".. and we can see here the number 6 corvette of {insert name here} taking on the number 6 corvette of {insert name here}... This is fantastic racing folks!!"


or

"Three wide ladies and gentleman!! the number six corvettes are putting on a fantastic show... now if we only knew who they were!!"

[jimmyj]

Only 1 number for the track or province you are registered
If that number has gone get another one

Aaron just change the number you aren't and won't be Danny Lendich and you know he is the only 1 allowed to do it

Not sure why but
Even in the pole up to now it is 100% no .I voted no Aaron ;D ;D

[Deleted]

I like the idea of a national three digit number.

If the number you want is gone - sorry, someone else got it first.

That way there up to 999 cars all with a different number on the side in each class. no confusion about 5T or 5H having the same number and a usually barely visible letter to tell you theyre from different tracks!!

[Speedway Central (David)]

Should not be two 23a midgets, one pink, one blue for example.

[BarryB]

So Aaron's voted obviously, but has no other support at the moment.

This is not a dig at Aaron, in fact we have discussed it on the phone and I did suggest in another thread that he start the poll himself to gauge if other people thought it was a good idea, or not. We all have our personal views, but never really know what others think.

Despite some groups in other countries doing it, I think there's probably more that don't allow number clashes. Just because it happens in America (and certainly not in all racing divisions) doesn't mean it's better - does it?

And despite having ELS to separate the cars, fans on macgor's that can separate the cars and commentators that can separate the cars, I don't feel it's about any of those people. That's why even a poll on macgor's doesn't necessarily even give a good feel for what the "general" public think, as you pretty much have to be addicted to the sport already to be posting on macgor's - yet at this stage even fans are voting 95% against the idea.

In things like this I think we need to be appealing to the new and casual fan. These are the people we need to be coming along more often if we really want our sport to grow, and I'm sure I know how they'd vote. We need to be making things easier to understand, not going unnecessarily out of our way to make things more confusing than they need be.

The question was asked "why shouldn't we be able to have the same race number on any amount of cars if that's what the driver/car owner wants?"

I know one shouldn't answer a question with a question, but why should we?

Nothing in this sport would survive without fan support and approval, so alienate them at your own risk I say. Take note Auckland Alleycats and Rotorua Rascals too ;D

Get your votes in.........

[speedwaynut]

BarryB said

"Take note Auckland Alleycats and Rotorua Rascals too"

Yes please.

Their numbering systems are very confusing - and that from someone with a little knowledge of teams racing.

Imagine how confusing it is for someone new to it!

[Admin]

I've been following this sport for a few years now , sometimes I think too many.
Teams racing has been a major attraction for me but I must admit I'm fed up with watching races and not knowing who is driving what , half the time the commentators don't know either. Imagine the All Blacks taking to the field wearing Balaclavas and their jersey numbers all being a mix of 3 numbers.

Why is speedway doing this to us paying fans?

I started my speedway watching career at Western Springs , even then picking numbers out was tough work and since then it's just got worse.

Multiple cars with the same numbers is just a bad joke, along with just plain hard to read numbers and there are plenty of those about now, in fact it's an insult to the customers.

[BarryB]

Jan 18, 2013 11:33:59 GMT 12 speedwaynut said:

BarryB said

"Take note Auckland Alleycats and Rotorua Rascals too"

Yes please.

Their numbering systems are very confusing - and that from someone with a little knowledge of teams racing.

Imagine how confusing it is for someone new to it!

I've found I've given up trying to follow the races with those teams competing, even worse if they're up against each other.

I can tell you it's a pain trying to do TV voice overs at a later date too - at least we won't have to worry about THAT this year!!

[BarryB]

Jan 18, 2013 11:51:39 GMT 12 Admin said:

I've been following this sport for a few years now , sometimes I think too many.
Teams racing has been a major attraction for me but I must admit I'm fed up with watching races and not knowing who is driving what , half the time the commentators don't know either. Imagine the All Blacks taking to the field wearing Balaclavas and their jersey numbers all being a mix of 3 numbers.

Why is speedway doing this to us paying fans?

I started my speedway watching career at Western Springs , even then picking numbers out was tough work and since then it's just got worse.

Multiple cars with the same numbers is just a bad joke, along with just plain hard to read numbers and there are plenty of those about now, in fact it's an insult to the customers.

You're right on all counts Gordon. Many competitors, via their signwriters, are insulting their fans. Race numbers are a huge blight on our sport, even as the rules stand now.

[Dirt_Fan]

Myself persoanlly I'm not to worried about numbers as a spectator in teams racing (for officials this may be different obviously) What more important to that aspect is body colours (Gisbourne v Rotorua).

In regard to other classes.
Just off the top of my head there should be a national register of numbers from 4 to 300 for each class, only 1 car in the country can have each number, that would stop the horrid looking tape numbers at champs and shouldn'tl affect electronic lap timing. Even with a 3 digit display there would be no need for a letter display as there would only be 1 number to 1 car.

Of course Im just a spectator and dont know finer details to running a speedway metting so what Ive mentioned might be plain stupid or just impossible or both.

[brettgrace]

I've made my argument many times on here, and I'll continue to lobby for personal freedom. Just because the council does with the one complaining resident, so must we when one fan ups and says "I can't tell the difference"? With or without this one fan, racing will continue regardless as those who can afford to race, will. The stockcar argument personally doesn't fly with me as I have difficulty telling who's in the lead after 2 laps and different numbers wouldn't fix that train wreck. I think that after spending hundreds of thousands on racecars, you should be allowed to put any number on that you please as it's your blood and sweat that's paid for them, and it's your stuff to paint and no-one elses.

If I get the chance to run overseas, I'm gonna run a big dollar sign with a little NZ next to it, and maybe the exchange rate for good measure. Just imagine if someone close to you died, and to honor them you wanted to run their birthday, lucky number or whatever and got told "no, you can't put the number on that you wanted even though you've paid the money to own a car, we don't care that someone died and you want to have a 400hp memorial of them." You might feel a bit different then.

I'm not sure whether it's occurred to the people here, but the team that consistently gets pulled up for the breaking of this 'rule' is one of the most professional racing outfits across any category in NZ. The commitments made to racing are beyond imagination, and the number deal is part of it. The number is not meant to be a blatant disregarding of the rule, it is a part of the image of a professional American team and if you've talked to the owner for five minutes you'll figure out that all he wants is a team to rival the American greats like the Wilke-PAK's, the Kunz's, the Lewis' and to bring it before the NZ public. And as reward for these efforts the team come under closer-than-usual scrutiny and get constantly berated for the numbers.

Like the Murphy fine, a few people at the governing body seem hell-bent on enforcing the rules with no regard for their intent. Great way to make the visitor feel welcome, fine him for celebrating a huge win. That screams "come back next year and entertain us some more" What do you think he's told people in America about speedway here? Probably nothing to convince more of them into returning next season, and I don't blame him in the least. I can remember years when we've had visitors with identical numbers and they weren't forced into changing them, and there is no rule that states concrete: Visiting cars with identical paint schemes must have different numbers. All that stands is that visiting drivers may substitute the track code for AUS or USA. So the team hasn't broken a rule and yet it's been enforced as such? Beauracracy for beauracracy's sake is what so many people have problems with in NZ and apparently it's filtered into Speedway. It's killed every other sport it's contaminated and I hope it's not the same with ours.

Give 'em hell Aaron, from four guys who'll have your back on this one. And to everyone else, sorry for the rant.

[BarryB]

No rant Brett. We're all entitled to our opinion, and there's one thing about opinions - they may be unpopular but they cannot be wrong!!!

[percy]

The problem with the opinions put forward by AD and BG is that they only look at it from a drivers perspective.

It needs to work for Off Track Officials, clerk of the course, spectators, sponsors, television, commentators etc.

I'm yet to hear how the proposed change would benefit any of these parties.

[BarryB]

Obviously the numbers are just one issue when it comes to rules, but that's the one we're talking about here. It's accepted some people do a lot for the sport, some people do a massive amount for the sport and some people put an amazing amount into the sport. But it also has to be said some people give the appearance that they feel that they're bigger than the sport at times, and that the rules don't apply to them. The members make the rules, the members can change the rules. It's a democratic process, and like the laws of the land we have to effectively abide by what the majority think is acceptable. No law, or rule within speedway, will ever meet with universal approval, but it is what the majority have deemed acceptable. To blame others, like SNZ, for issues any party maybe enduring because they've chosen to flout the rules (made by the members) doesn't really make sense to me.

[Aaron Drever]

Jan 19, 2013 11:32:38 GMT 12 BarryB said:

Obviously the numbers are just one issue when it comes to rules, but that's the one we're talking about here. It's accepted some people do a lot for the sport, some people do a massive amount for the sport and some people put an amazing amount into the sport. But it also has to be said some people give the appearance that they feel that they're bigger than the sport at times, and that the rules don't apply to them. The members make the rules, the members can change the rules. It's a democratic process, and like the laws of the land we have to effectively abide by what the majority think is acceptable. No law, or rule within speedway, will ever meet with universal approval, but it is what the majority have deemed acceptable. To blame others, like SNZ, for issues any party maybe enduring because they've chosen to flout the rules (made by the members) doesn't really make sense to me.

No one is bigger but SNZ well hmmm. Why can't the number belong to the car or car owner and that driver not?

Look at this it makes an income streem for clubs etc but in some cases car owners and drivers are the same. In some cases they are not

[BarryB]

If you have a problem with the SNZ directors, a group democratically elected every 2 years by it's members, you'd sure have a problem with the dictatorship of NASCAR then AD ;D ;D ;D

[BarryB]

Well you've already exceeded my expectations in this poll AD. I'd picked you'd get 2 votes, your own and Brett's, and you've surpassed that by 50% already. There's a third player in this game

UPDATE; And a 4th!!!