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Post by Topcat on Mar 21, 2014 1:42:02 GMT 12
As I see it.....over the last few years the so called LEADER class into the contact class stockcars what it was previously known as [now stockcars & superstocks] has continued to ensure that it is fast becoming more and more expensive pricing it off the list for many grass roots competitors....quick change diffs just take it to a whole new level - might as well just call them superstocks and be done with it....same old story, we start these BUDGET classes for competitors to be able to afford to get into them and then we gradually price them off the market and then start another class - TOO MANY CLASSES, TOO MUCH PLAYING AROUND WITH THE RULES!!
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Post by bikeboy on Mar 21, 2014 6:13:04 GMT 12
As I see it.....over the last few years the so called LEADER class into the contact class stockcars what it was previously known as [now stockcars & superstocks] has continued to ensure that it is fast becoming more and more expensive pricing it off the list for many grass roots competitors....quick change diffs just take it to a whole new level - might as well just call them superstocks and be done with it....same old story, we start these BUDGET classes for competitors to be able to afford to get into them and then we gradually price them off the market and then start another class - TOO MANY CLASSES, TOO MUCH PLAYING AROUND WITH THE RULES!! i am not sure how you can say that its pricing to many cars out of the market, when the NZ Champs this year had the largest ever number of cars contest a title, |
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Mar 21, 2014 6:25:56 GMT 12
As I see it.....over the last few years the so called LEADER class into the contact class stockcars what it was previously known as [now stockcars & superstocks] has continued to ensure that it is fast becoming more and more expensive pricing it off the list for many grass roots competitors....quick change diffs just take it to a whole new level - might as well just call them superstocks and be done with it....same old story, we start these BUDGET classes for competitors to be able to afford to get into them and then we gradually price them off the market and then start another class - TOO MANY CLASSES, TOO MUCH PLAYING AROUND WITH THE RULES!! i am not sure how you can say that its pricing to many cars out of the market, when the NZ Champs this year had the largest ever number of cars contest a title, and out of the 170 cars that were there you could say half of them just made up the numbers. stockcars lost the way when they removed the name STANDARD. As for the quick change diff im 50/50 think it is a good idea but then we are just heading away from what stockcars are or were meant to be. Maybe make it optional and have 3-4 certain ratios only. The set up cost at the start would be high but the running cost would be low. I did 4 diff heads last year at cost of $800 in the stockcar and this year in the super ive done no gear sets. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 7:01:34 GMT 12
We all know that the price of our supposed affordable class of racing has got out of hand and it hasn't only just happened .
Agree with Topcat 100% on his comments . Allowing quickchange diffs will only push the prices up further out of reach..
Was a time when the standard stock class was all on virtually the same level , but these days its split into two groups .
One being the guy on the low budget who just wants to get out there and have fun and the other being the guy with the big wallet wanting to win at all costs ..
Leave the class alone while there are still people that can afford it.
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Post by karencarey on Mar 21, 2014 7:59:18 GMT 12
In answer to your question the process to put in rule changes for the stockcar class is still via the remit system. You need to send your proposed rule change to the CEO of SNZ. It is then sent to the technical committee for consideration, then sent to tracks for voting on at the club remit meetings and lastly put to the AGM as a remit. Rules for classes under this process are done every two years. This years AGM is not a rule change year so you still have time to consider this further if you want to.
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Post by BarryB on Mar 21, 2014 8:21:42 GMT 12
This year's NZ Stockcar Champs fell short of being the biggest ever, but it wasn't far off it. With all of the local cars a record number was predicted, but obviously a lot less than usual travelled from out of town for the event and it fell short.
Stratford in 2008 was and still is the biggest ever NZ Stockcar title, also the biggest ever NZ title for any class, but Ministocks in Paradise surpassed the largest number of cars from a single class competing in an event earlier this season with 174 cars passing scrutineering and hitting the track.
Barry B
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 11:09:57 GMT 12
on a price basis, by the end of a season or two racing your about the same with the costs of replacing axles and heads raising the price of a stock diff compared to one quickchange diff.
people are already spending upwards of 30k to get cars to the pointy end of the stocks and some are still not managing it even then.
and look at lap times - the records in huntly between the two are less than half a second. thats a superstock with high hp, big dollar suspension, no restrictors and hoosiers compared to a stockcar with a stock diff, road legal tyres, stock exhaust manifold, restricter plates and less expensive suspension setups....
so whats the point in saying "oh but it will push the price up too high for the low buck budgets class" its not a low buck class anymore. it hasnt been for a while, it just has low buck racers in it and if you look around you can find them in any class anyway.
there are stock cars out there that can out run a superstock. some have more hp than some superstocks... if your saying a quickchange is too much then your trying to draw a line that should have been drawn ages ago - personally thing they may as well just combine the classes nowadays.
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Post by Sharns With Sparky on Mar 21, 2014 11:30:15 GMT 12
This year's NZ Stockcar Champs fell short of being the biggest ever, but it wasn't far off it. With all of the local cars a record number was predicted, but obviously a lot less than usual travelled from out of town for the event and it fell short. Stratford in 2008 was and still is the biggest ever NZ Stockcar title, also the biggest ever NZ title for any class, but Ministocks in Paradise surpassed the largest number of cars from a single class competing in an event earlier this season with 174 cars passing scrutineering and hitting the track. Barry B How many would have raced if teams were'nt 2 days later |
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Taz33s
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Post by Taz33s on Mar 21, 2014 12:58:03 GMT 12
on a price basis, by the end of a season or two racing your about the same with the costs of replacing axles and heads raising the price of a stock diff compared to one quickchange diff. people are already spending upwards of 30k to get cars to the pointy end of the stocks and some are still not managing it even then. and look at lap times - the records in huntly between the two are less than half a second. thats a superstock with high hp, big dollar suspension, no restrictors and hoosiers compared to a stockcar with a stock diff, road legal tyres, stock exhaust manifold, restricter plates and less expensive suspension setups.... so whats the point in saying "oh but it will push the price up too high for the low buck budgets class" its not a low buck class anymore. it hasnt been for a while, it just has low buck racers in it and if you look around you can find them in any class anyway. there are stock cars out there that can out run a superstock. some have more hp than some superstocks... if your saying a quickchange is too much then your trying to draw a line that should have been drawn ages ago - personally thing they may as well just combine the classes nowadays. People think to be the fastest you must spend the most... you say people are spending upwards of 30k + and still not at the pionty end of the feild. My car cost less than 30k to build. Its about the combination between your head and your feet and the setup without those 2 you could spend 100k and still not be at the front. My Toyota diff cost less than $500 thats fully floating from carlos at the steel sergeon and in 2 an a half seasons ive only done 1 diff head and 2 axles so it still wouldnt owe me more than $1000 and im a hard man on gear!  Puting a quick change in is just going to make the price on cars go up even more and the rule book open up more but hey im just 1 person put the remit through and if it gets through then i guess thats what the majority of the class wants |
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Post by mrdamage on Mar 21, 2014 13:13:55 GMT 12
Out of interest, what diff are you running? Prado with hilux head?
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Taz33s
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Pazza Race Team 33s
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Post by Taz33s on Mar 21, 2014 13:22:46 GMT 12
Out of interest, what diff are you running? Prado with hilux head? Just Toyota Hiace |
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Post by cookster on Mar 21, 2014 19:13:44 GMT 12
I agree 30k will not put you at the front of the pack due to the fact that guys out there are spending big$$$$$$$$ on the engines alone.
The same can be said for standard stocks, a 8 to 10k stock will not put you at the front of the pack when there is 30/40k stocks out there, its all relative
It is a personal choice of what class you want to be in. I would rather be racing supers for 30k than spending 30k on a standard
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Post by stockyracer on Mar 21, 2014 19:50:35 GMT 12
i can see the sence in this idea in the long run for using a quick change but i and many others im sure cant or couldnt afford them. i know how much ive pumped into my car this season and it aint even made it to the track yet alone the thought of finding more money. as others have stated ive been lucky i guess and have had a very good run not breaking any axles or heads from a toyota. as every year goes by i get more frustrated with this grade as to be at the pointy end of the field you gotta spend the money. these certainly arnt standard stocks any more.
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Post by bart88 on Mar 21, 2014 20:30:50 GMT 12
my opinion is that a quick change diff is a good idea, bringing the class up to a stage where you can buy parts of the shelf, not having to alter diff housings, lengthen or shorten axles. Gear boxes would be able to run in top gear which would minimize breakages, which means that you wouldn't need to be replacing them as often this would create less demand for them, and maybe more supply (yeah right)  |
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Post by sabbath on Mar 21, 2014 20:43:01 GMT 12
on a price basis, by the end of a season or two racing your about the same with the costs of replacing axles and heads raising the price of a stock diff compared to one quickchange diff. people are already spending upwards of 30k to get cars to the pointy end of the stocks and some are still not managing it even then. and look at lap times - the records in huntly between the two are less than half a second. thats a superstock with high hp, big dollar suspension, no restrictors and hoosiers compared to a stockcar with a stock diff, road legal tyres, stock exhaust manifold, restricter plates and less expensive suspension setups.... so whats the point in saying "oh but it will push the price up too high for the low buck budgets class" its not a low buck class anymore. it hasnt been for a while, it just has low buck racers in it and if you look around you can find them in any class anyway. there are stock cars out there that can out run a superstock. some have more hp than some superstocks... if your saying a quickchange is too much then your trying to draw a line that should have been drawn ages ago - personally thing they may as well just combine the classes nowadays. Yea good idea they shld just combine the 2 into 1 class & then bring in adult & kids ministocks at tracks so dad/mum & kids can drive 1 car at same meeting |
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Post by beachboy on Mar 21, 2014 22:44:40 GMT 12
Stockcars have more contact than Superstocks and there are larger fields, with contact you will break and bend things and once you start having to replace a couple of quick changes each season it's going to cost a bit more than a couple of Toyota diffs.
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Post by spdwayorthehway on Mar 22, 2014 0:01:48 GMT 12
There might be big numbers of Stockcars around the country and plenty at the top meetings,
but how many meetings has half of them done apart from the above.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 11:26:40 GMT 12
I like the idea of quickchange diffs in stockcars...more than i like the idea of going injected. I would be happy to see QC diffs and extractors in stocks..why not, beats spending crazy money on motors in the B grade like some do. The race prepped 9inch diff is more expensive..the one out of the green 54 car was on sale here a few seasons ago asking 4k.. I picked up off the sell pages a saloon car used speedway engineering QC delivered to my place from top of the sth island for 900..thats 700 net..second hand with a steel axle and an alloy axle.. i reckon for 400 to 500 you can get a reasonable toyo diff..well for the couple of hundy difference I'd rather have the QC...i would also rather the motor i have be allowed to breath better to get the best out of it.. without spending thousands on taking it from 3984cc to max allowable size... maybe we need a B grade superstock class or a C grade stocks class but there will always be guys with the skills or the cash to drive the sport ahead....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 16:15:42 GMT 12
Stockcars have more contact than Superstocks and there are larger fields, with contact you will break and bend things and once you start having to replace a couple of quick changes each season it's going to cost a bit more than a couple of Toyota diffs. Ive only heard of one q/c diff breaking this season - that was under superstock teams racing when the hits are the hardest and speeds are right up there... Unless youve heard of more? Would love to know how may Q/C diffs break in a season compared to stock car diffs! $20 says its more than ten Stock car diffs to one superstock! Besides - as ever, you dont have to run them. there are superstocks that dont and still get mid pack. Personally would just combine the two classes, let them have injection, headers and Q/C's and call them ALL A-grades like they should be. restart the stock cars again from scratch - theyve left the "intent of the class" way behind. not a budget racer class at all anymore, otherwise we wouldnt have needed or wanted production saloons. |
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Post by beachboy on Mar 22, 2014 19:36:43 GMT 12
Stockcars out number superstock and hit more so of course they will break more gear.
Q,If you had the chance to start the stock car class again would you want to allow QC diffs???
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