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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Oct 21, 2014 10:20:27 GMT 12
It won't be long before competitors for all speedway classes will be paying an entry fee per meeting at all tracks,
just as happens in alternative motorsports (tarmac racers, rally).
It is an incremental change but nevertheless, very real and on it's way.
We're a nation of sheep and as one track applies the charge so will another follow.
At the moment we have a few promotions applying a charge to competitors and calling it for the St Johns.
Some at $2, some at $5.
Should anyone be so bold (stupid) to question the validity of the charge they are immediately lambasted with the usual rhetoric, "What price safety, blah, blah."
The charge is just simple revenue collecting and the label 'AMBO' is just to make it sound more palatable, to divert attention from realty (entry fee in stealth, and reduced complainants).
Any validity of the argument could also be applied to most aspects of a promotions cost structure, such as fire crews, recovery crews, security, track prep. they all have critical safety aspects.
Truth is, it's a lot easier to put a charge on a captive audience, the competitors.
We tend to think that while they might complain, they will still attend and pay up as their choice is to leave their 'dream machine in the garage or sell it'.
An increase to spectators might have them walk away and it's a lot easier than getting more sponsors, more advertisers.
Personally I would prefer clubs / promotions were upfront with a simple BUT transparent explanation ... "We're struggling to cover costs and to better ensure we are able to provide a speedway event to the standard the competitors and spectators expect, a small fee now has to be applied."
Personally, I would prefer whatever processes and charges are in place, they have common sense.
I'm old, avoid exercise when possible. Walk to pay $2. Walk back to car. Drive to have car checked. Walk to have gear checked (could be done with the car), walk back for drivers briefing, walk to official when called to explain driving misdemeanour, walk back. I'm too bloody old for all this. If I was keen on walking I'd join a tramping club! 
To arrive at KK Sunday and in response to my request for a scrutineering card (usual past practice at the gate) I'm told no, I have to park my car walk to the office to collect my card ant pay $2 for the Ambo. "Your bloody joking, another unnecessary walk", really to myself but audible to the gate folk.
They were not impressed! "Okay, a program please", half expecting a reply that they are in another direction, but no, that will be $1 please.
I hand over $2 and told, sorry "we have no change". Strange as obviously many are forking out cash as they drive in? No worries, happy to donate an extra $1. It's not about the money.
Why is it too hard to collect a program and card at the gate (pay $3-$5, or just request a donation)?
Perhaps for the gate staff to note the names and car numbers at the same time giving early advice to officials as to who is on site?
Competitor entry charges are on the way. That's what they are, that's what they should be called.
Perhaps the SNZ Board should be aware of this growing trend and ensure that there is clear policy around this to better enable uniformity around the country?
Just asking, thinking out aloud ...
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Post by Mischief on Oct 21, 2014 10:44:35 GMT 12
Murray....this seems to stem from Stratford informing their competitors that there will be a $2 charge per tow vehicle this season to assist the Club paying for the attendance of St Johns. THIS IS NOT A CONSPIRACY for revenue gathering, it is actually part of a long term plan to save the Club & it's members MILLIONS!!
Do you know what it costs Stratford per meeting for St Johns to attend?
Do you know the structure of the Club & how it operates?
Do you know the constitution of the Club & what they can & cannot do?
Do you know the system's put in place for the $2 going to St John's?
Why assume the Club are struggling to cover costs?
Do you know the balance of the Club's bank account's?
Do you know if competitor's pay for entry at Stratford?
Do you know the prize/appearance money structure at Stratford?
There is a bloody good reason why they are trying to save money & Stratford are being totally 100% upfront & transparent..... this $2 is to help subsidise the cost of St Johns per meeting... Simple.
Truth is.....The easiest & less CONTROVERSIAL question would be to ask WHY Stratford are now charging this fee & trying to keep the costs to the Club to a minimum this season!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 11:56:21 GMT 12
No competitors should moan about paying a little something towards safety .. If the clubs say that its a donation to St Johns , then I for one wouldn't question it . If I was seriously injured at a race track I would feel a whole lot better knowing that people with the expertise were there to assist and im sure a lot more would agree ...
As for whining about walking , being an ex Baypark competitor anyone knows how many km you can rack up walking around their pits and that's before hopping into your racecar . May be time to purchase a mobility scooter Murray ..lol
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Post by teamkaos on Oct 21, 2014 12:29:14 GMT 12
Well to be honest, When you race anything else you have to pay some sort of entrance fee. It still suprises me that speedway has gone on so long without them. Karts was about $10 bucks 20 years ago when I used to race, not sure how much it is for them these days. Hell, you even have to pay an entry fee to race Radio control cars!
At the end of the day if the charge is just for local drivers, based on address, not track they registered too. and it makes the clubs facilities better and produces an all round better show for the spectators then why not. |
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Post by The Observer on Oct 21, 2014 13:58:21 GMT 12
I was assuming Muzza was talking about Kihikihi, the new track he has registered too that charges a ambulance fee. I would have thought that was a small price to pay at Kihikihi, given they offer you so many other benefits Muzza - which you kindly listed in your post below. So you've contracted to win some races mg
Contracted at Kihikihi for a number of reasons.
Competing at 40 plus tracks a season I work out my calendar and commitments early.
Contracting to Kihikihi reduces considerably my need to secure clearances which, frankly, are a pain in the butt!
Kihikihi start times and finish times are very much more user family friendly (usually I have grandkids, 5 & 7 as crew)
Kihikihi track is better suited, enabling greater opportunity for more saloon racers to be competitive.
Generally the saloon fields are larger at KK than at BP of late, possibly reflecting the quality of the track and benefits for racers like myself at KK.
You can see from the field this Saturday at KK that the fast boys are there to practice, to win, but it won't be as easy for them unless off the front.
Ex BP 18k Chris Taylor a very quick racer now at KK also.
The cheque book big budget racers certainly are impossible for a 60 plus year old in a 1988 car to compete with on the motorway experience that Baypark provides!  That's okay as life is evolving as is our sport. We just need to adapt to meet changing circumstances.
From the club perspective I was affiliated with, the single biggest rise in costs for the last 5 years has been St Johns Ambulance fees. This organization holds a monopoly on its services across most of NZ, and have used this to their advantage to increase the returns they can make. Previously we used Pub Charity to offset this cost to save money for our club members. However in the last couple of years the pub charity response has been to stop matching the increase in costs St Johns brings to the table, and to keep the funds at the same level. This is a fixed cost - an overhead tracks have to cough up with. In areas with smaller populations the opportunity to offset this cost is increasingly challenging. If some tracks are investigating other ways of funding it - good on them. Its a challenge out there for all clubs. When you through in working days, investing in facilities, prizemoney requirements, demanding spectators (facilities/show/speed of performance), demanding drivers (pretty much anything you can think of, including this topic) and the challenges of volunteers on race days to keep the meeting moving. It will be interesting to see how competitors respond. Locals will no doubt contribute, as they will lose the track eventually if they don’t. Visitors might reluctantly contribute, and offer feedback via social media which may or may not put off potential visitors. At the end of the day the bug to race will dictate what drivers want to contribute. I think Muzzas quote above is probably a fairly good summation of things "life is evolving as is our sport. We just need to adapt to meet changing circumstances" which I think means you will bounce back from this charge Murray. Probably more concerning is the walking you are struggling with. I just licensed today and It required me to indicate I was physically fit and able. Not sure what you indicated here if you are really struggling to walk around the pits at the moment. Hope you get well soon. |
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Post by karter55 on Oct 21, 2014 14:22:06 GMT 12
$10 TK? Geezzz that was along time ago. Now days by the time you have joined a club, paid for your transponder hire for the year and then your licence fees on top of that your looking at $500 before you get near a track ( not sure how that compares to speedway fees ). Then add $30-$35 entry fee for a club meeting over $100 for an NZ/ island title meet and the $$$ soon rack up and remember NONE of it is returned in appearance or prize money!! In fact in 12 years of karting I made $50 back...Speedway guys get it to easy hahahahaha
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mrnizmo86
Full Member
been goin to speedway since 3 weeks old
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Post by mrnizmo86 on Oct 21, 2014 15:34:15 GMT 12
This post has got me thinking, now at Huntly you pay the $5 "for the ambo" and you then recive your 5 pit wrist bands, then any additional wrist bands are $5 each, now does this $5 also go to "the ambo" or does this extra revenue go elsewhere?
Not suggesting any conspiracy here just that it seems weird that any additional bands are $5.
Robb Cardwell
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Post by mcfly on Oct 21, 2014 16:23:20 GMT 12
I'm with Murray on this one. Are the license fees and club membership fees not supposed to cover costs such as these?
What happens at the tracks run by promoters, are they still charging this fee, and if they are, at what point do they stop passing their costs on to the competitors? Would they consider passing money back to the competitor when they do make a good profit? All competitors costs have increased dramatically over the years but the appearance and prise money paid back is the same (if still paid at all) as it was 20 -30 years ago.
Most other sports cannot be directly compared to speedway simply because of the structure they race under, not to mention the fact that most don't attract paying spectators the way speedway does.
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Oct 21, 2014 17:05:09 GMT 12
Meeanee charge $5.00 per adult driver and the youth pay $2.00 all to go to the St Johns fee.
Mcfly St Johns is at least $700.00 for 3 1/2 hours per meeting so our club fees would only cover 3 meetings at this cost.
They could always put the gate price up to cover the cost and you do have to remember that as well as our cost as a driver has gone up so has the cost of running a meeting. On average to run a standard meeting it would cost around 14k plus.
I think $5.00 for St Johns is the least to worry about.
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Post by panicstations on Oct 21, 2014 17:41:22 GMT 12
Grandad, Grandad, Grandad… I would have hoped that you had better things to moan about or even skite about being registered to 2k's!!! Given that more and more tracks are passing the $700-$800 charge per night for the ambo that it will become the norm and not the exception in the future. If you are aware of this it helps to have it all ready and sorted ($5 at huntly was always on the tick list on the way to the track) I gather that you are talking about racing without prize money and now are expected to effectively pay to enter… I think of it as more of a donation than anything else and if anyone can't afford it then speedway is not for them as we all know it is not a cheap thrill to be involved in.  |
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Post by fearless on Oct 21, 2014 18:08:00 GMT 12
I pay $3.00 per meeting and never get to race.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:34:53 GMT 12
This post has got me thinking, now at Huntly you pay the $5 "for the ambo" and you then recive your 5 pit wrist bands, then any additional wrist bands are $5 each, now does this $5 also go to "the ambo" or does this extra revenue go elsewhere? Not suggesting any conspiracy here just that it seems weird that any additional bands are $5. Robb Cardwell not 100% sure but I think it goes towards the cost of getting the bloody things... Look guys, at the end of the day it takes a LOT of money to run even a low key club night and the takings from the gates are getting thinner and thinner as people do actually have other things to use thier money on before they can afford to come watch us race. Its just a fact that while we dont want it to happen - eventually we are going to have to shoulder more of the costs incurred in running a night at whatever track we sign up with. if not through club fees - which dont cover all costs the club incurs or through gate takings when we drive in, which also cannot cover the costs of running the clubs and tracks. The money has to come from somewhere, since the crowds have been falling off due to increased costs literally everywhere else - the money has to come from us instead. |
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Post by superstock on Oct 21, 2014 19:59:32 GMT 12
speedway still has it easy compared to circuit racing who pay 400 dollars plus to race ,mostly no prize money and only really 3 races
but we love to race whatever the class or cost
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Oct 21, 2014 20:01:28 GMT 12
Murray....this seems to stem from Stratford informing their competitors that there will be a $2 charge per tow vehicle this season to assist the Club paying for the attendance of St Johns. THIS IS NOT A CONSPIRACY for revenue gathering, it is actually part of a long term plan to save the Club & it's members MILLIONS!! No, not Stratford, a trigger in part. Just an observation that over recent years their has been a slow but steady increase in tracks seeking to supplement their income from competitors. Good luck saving your club $millions! Quite happy to contribute. |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Oct 21, 2014 20:14:24 GMT 12
Grandad, Grandad, Grandad… I would have hoped that you had better things to moan about or even skite about being registered to 2k's!!! Given that more and more tracks are passing the $700-$800 charge per night for the ambo that it will become the norm and not the exception in the future. If you are aware of this it helps to have it all ready and sorted ($5 at huntly was always on the tick list on the way to the track) I gather that you are talking about racing without prize money and now are expected to effectively pay to enter… I think of it as more of a donation than anything else and if anyone can't afford it then speedway is not for them as we all know it is not a cheap thrill to be involved in.
Grandad, Grandad, Grandad…
I would have hoped that you had better things to moan about.....
This is the sort of crap feedback that deters folk in organisations (the workplace) from sharing a thought.
Nero fiddles while Rome burns springs to mind.
It's not a moan and it's not about me, difficult for some to understand I guess!
Not everybody speaks out ONLY when it affects them!
I'm at the end of the road but my grandkids are at the start.
Skip all the defensive clap trap and safety BS. Read my comments.
Many costs are very much safety related (fire crew, track prep) and debate the observation - are driver entry fees on the way?
We are unique in that we have had the benefit of spectators at Speedway.
What I pay for tarmac racing is irrelevant as they are totally different sports with different income streams and next to no spectators.
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Post by panicstations on Oct 21, 2014 20:22:31 GMT 12
Crap feedback, actually it is my point of view and some of us like to share there point of view when they feel it is warranted but you seem to get offended very easily!!!!!
You have paid $195 licence and probably $100 in membership but you have got all bitter and twisted about a measly $2… go figure
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Post by theycallmewade on Oct 21, 2014 20:26:20 GMT 12
This is an interesting thread. Perhaps we (the speedway supporter and competitor community) ought to be focusing on what value we actually have. Listening to my father talk about speedway since the 70's, and having been involved in the sport since I was young enough to walk it is clear that there has been a slow and steady decline in the gravitas speedway has as the Saturday night entertainment option. When dad was first racing, he was an apprentice mechanic earning $45 per week salary and could go out on a Saturday night and win $100 for a feature - that was dam near professional and the racers were big names (Jim Richards etc.) but still speedway! I am probably mistaken about the decline - it just has not moved. Prize money is the same as it was 40 years ago but cost and entertainment options for the punters have surely moved on far more than the venues and presentation. From reading this I can tell most of you are old enough and intelligent enough NOT to be 'Generation Why' - stop moaning like you are! The question ought to be this - given the presentation (no offence intended to the dedicated club members and people who put a ton of time and energy into the sport) on a club Saturday night, how do we get anyone to turn up at all? But we do! There is a solid base of dedicated speedway fans out there - what we need to do is impress them first and then work to increase the spectator base. $800 for two trained paramedics and a fully equipped ambulance for 6 hours on site - and you are complaining..... ! How much do you think the actual market value of that is.... What we should be spending some energy talking about is how we get the extra 40 punters into the venue to pay for it rather than whining about spending $3! We all know how much our personal costs have gone up to compete, and we also know how much faster we go now than in the 70's. The potential to generate a spectator buzz and draw again is huge. We can look at the excellent work done with the international sprint car and midget series, as well as the super stocks and the big competitor generated success story - the ELF and Burger King Pro Dirt Series for the super saloons as an example of presentation and 'show'. The deep rooted support for speedway in this country is quickly on display when you look at any of these events - it hasn't gone away, it is just not getting what it is looking for - Entertainment and Excitement!! That is my rant and reaction to the nonsense I see above on this thread (Murray I suspect and hope you are just stirring the pot and not serious about the $3 and the walk.....?) As a sport we might seek guidance from the governing body on 'how to market' ourselves and bring the sport back to Saturday night / Speedway night. In my opinion it is both a top down (SNZ offering guidance and marketing expertise on behalf of all clubs) and bottom up (trying to get competitors to make sure their pit crews aren't walking around with their arse hanging out of their jeans when the pits are open to the public). You get the behaviour and If clubs can showcase the talent and excitement on offer that has actually developed well beyond where it was even 10 years ago and bring the punters back, catering contracts become more lucrative, sponsorship and major events become commodities to sell, competitors are better looked after with prize and travel money - and you won't have to worry about paying for the medical staff. If I have to watch another 14 year old racing a road going SingSong truck around Taupo for two hours on a Sunday afternoon on TV I will sh*t myself - Bring Back Speedway - there is so much unrealized value here as a spectacle it is rediculous, and I suspect there are several sh*tloads of people involved in this sport who could provide valuable input from their own professional and technical backgrounds.... What about a thread or sector on this site where people can contribute expertise, marketing ideas, value added support for the clubs nationally who struggle with their day to day focus of getting through each weekend? I am out of energy for this rant, but have bag fulls for the sport and those who make it happen! |
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Post by panicstations on Oct 21, 2014 20:33:11 GMT 12
Well said theycallmewade:)
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Post by japsuper on Oct 21, 2014 20:51:43 GMT 12
Well said guys
Murray seriously do you have nothing better to do that constantly rant on Facebook , Macgors and Christ knows what other forums which take your fancy.
Might be time to get a job!
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Post by Admin on Oct 21, 2014 20:56:06 GMT 12
Well said guys Murray seriously do you have nothing better to do that constantly rant on Facebook , Macgors and Christ knows what other forums which take your fancy. Might be time to get a job! How about addressing the topic rather than attacking the person , in other words play the ball not the man. The topic is worthy of discussion. |
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That's okay as life is evolving as is our sport. We just need to adapt to meet changing circumstances.
