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Post by TonyG188r on Jan 26, 2015 15:49:06 GMT 12
This could potentially be a pretty big Discussion...
What are people's thoughts on splitting a 3rd stockcar chassis class away from the 2 current classes known as superstocks & stockcars.
Theres a huge amount of variables for and against the idea and many I know some people will bring up that I haven't thought of.
F2s never really kicked off but a 3rd class with the same chassis that can be either a stockcar or superstock currently is the point of difference here...
Standard stocks to run standard motor only at a set compression ratio and converted to carburettor and/or maybe standard Injection etc from road cars? Stock standard everything else motor wise. And standard everything (budget)
Let stockcars run all current rules and regs but maybe add quick changes into the equation? (We have been there done that with this seperate discussion somewhere on macggors)
Would the numbers that we have in stockcars aka 7 or 8 groups at the NZ champs be hurt too much?
Would it open up a completely new avenue for a cheap(ish) speedway class at entry level for guys that cant afford stockcars with the 10-20k engines but still want to be competitive. Effectively it would be standard stocks entry level restricted spending, stockcars for guys who wanna be competitive and spend lots but not quite superstock lots, and then the premier superstocks which is current.
Interested to see thoughts and ideas and theory's scenarios Etc. I coujd write so much more but this will do for now.
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Post by TonyG188r on Jan 26, 2015 15:51:27 GMT 12
Apologies if there's another topic around on this that I may have missed , I haven't seen anything the short time I've been on macgors posting
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Post by Speedway Central (David) on Jan 26, 2015 16:02:45 GMT 12
StdStock
Stockcar
Supersuper
Yeh nah.
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Post by TonyG188r on Jan 26, 2015 16:07:26 GMT 12
Just going by the amount of stockcars there are and the difference between some of the stockcars out there vs the top guys would reduce the gap
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Post by boner87 on Jan 26, 2015 16:14:27 GMT 12
What you proposing is in essence ministock racing with contact in stockcar chassis???
I can see the idea and yes I would be great if it would work. Unfortunately this will most likely not work. Reasons for that although a car could be built for say 10k brand new racing then becomes racing and people will find loop holes to spend money to be faster. I have seen this in Tarmac/circuit racing when I was involved.
Not to sound like a negative nelly but having 3 stockcar classes? What about contact rule (sigh/moan). Do we limit to pushing, tap to pass, no walling because that would cost money for a "budget" class.
Not to be a downer but I like the idea because it would interest me but unfortunately I don't think it would survive
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 16:20:20 GMT 12
what would your suggestion be for lets say shocks for this budget class?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 16:22:30 GMT 12
It will work real well... UNTIL, someone spends $6k in this class where the intent was no one should spend north of $4k then the fastest cars will soon be going as fast as the mid pack runners in the Stockcars, so we will need another class again.
So it's a no for me thanks, if I want to watch slow Stockcars wobbling round the track, I'll just go to a normal meeting at Hawkes Bay hehehe.
Sorry Fans of the B, just razzing ya
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Post by BarryB on Jan 26, 2015 16:27:30 GMT 12
NO!!!! The absolute LAST thing speedway in NZ needs is another class.
Barry B
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95c
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Post by 95c on Jan 26, 2015 16:42:42 GMT 12
chev crate motor class would be great
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Post by boner87 on Jan 26, 2015 17:26:14 GMT 12
What about just a similar idea that tracks could do would be to run B-class stockcars for people who don't have the big bucks. If you win too much...up to the top class you go. Could only really be done locally though I would think
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Post by TonyG188r on Jan 26, 2015 18:38:08 GMT 12
Wasn't so much a suggestion or proposal I guess just a talking point to see what others thought about the theory's
Purely just via observations from myself at the gap difference and quality of some of the cars / motors in the stockcar class, seems the performance difference is just huge and was interested in creating discussion around it.
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Post by TonyG188r on Jan 26, 2015 18:40:50 GMT 12
NO!!!! The absolute LAST thing speedway in NZ needs is another class. Barry B Id have to agree for sure, I'm just all about the contact I went out and had a nutsload of fun in Auckland last night in the stockcar races and loved every but of the bumpers we were dishing each other out, if this was a serious idea I wanted to action I woukd suggest canning production saloons for starters at minimum |
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Post by BarryB on Jan 26, 2015 18:44:35 GMT 12
What about just a similar idea that tracks could do would be to run B-class stockcars for people who don't have the big bucks. If you win too much...up to the top class you go. Could only really be done locally though I would think A great idea, and something that could be done by any club any time, BUT, outside of Palmy how many tracks have enough cars to split their class? Barry B |
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Post by mcfly on Jan 26, 2015 18:45:16 GMT 12
Wasn't so much a suggestion or proposal I guess just a talking point to see what others thought about the theory's Purely just via observations from myself at the gap difference and quality of some of the cars / motors in the stockcar class, seems the performance difference is just huge and was interested in creating discussion around it. Don't forget that the standard stocks you are referring to are exactly what we had and that are now referred to as stockcars. Originally it was the class that you are wanting to introduce. The problem is that people who could, did stretch the original rules and the officials let them and that is why we now have stockcars selling for more than some supers. |
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Post by Speedway Central (David) on Jan 26, 2015 19:36:53 GMT 12
What about Dirt Karts 5 - 11 year olds
Tricycle Bikes 2 - 5
and Race prams 0 - 2
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Post by brendanlucas on Jan 26, 2015 19:47:27 GMT 12
chev crate motor class would be great Adding this option will make a significant cost difference (much lower running costs, & cost to aquire) when it is added as an option to the superstock class. As mentioned already, the last thing needed is yet another class that will water down the fields even more. This engine option has proven quite compatible, & for those already running a 9 inch diff in there stockcar, will fing there is no need to go to a quick change diff given the very wide spread of torque. I like to think we should be future proofing what we have rather then adding more 'so called' budget classes that often become expensive lemons. Another factor to concider looking forward, is the Fonterra factor. I don't think we have felt the affects of the massive payout drops that our dairy farmers are about to experience, & the same for forestry & oil, all industries that keep our sport going. I think the affect on competitor numbers looking forward will likely be quite adversely affected without quite significant gains, particularly in the dairy sector. Like it or not, a problem for the dairy farmer is a problem for NZ. No, I don't think there needs to be yet another class, rather massage what we have. Cheers, BL |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 19:52:27 GMT 12
NO!!!! The absolute LAST thing speedway in NZ needs is another class. Barry B Id have to agree for sure, I'm just all about the contact I went out and had a nutsload of fun in Auckland last night in the stockcar races and loved every but of the bumpers we were dishing each other out, if this was a serious idea I wanted to action I woukd suggest canning production saloons for starters at minimum why productions, this class has given quite a few guys their intro to sat night speedway, and they have gone on to other classes. to name a few Me Stockcars Aaron Alderton Stockcars Richard Mahy SuperStocks Geoff Webb Saloons Codi Singer Saloons Craig Robinson Saloons Ben Patrick Stockcars That's just a few up this way off top of my head, while ministocks provide a good transition for the younger ones, some of us that started in speedway later in life it gave us a great way to get involved. Glad you enjoyed Auckland champs, was great to watch, looked like loads of fun, full credit to all drivers, Who are you djtonedef and what car do you race. |
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Post by beachboy on Jan 26, 2015 19:57:56 GMT 12
chev crate motor class would be great Adding this option will make a significant cost difference (much lower running costs, & cost to aquire) when it is added as an option to the superstock class. As mentioned already, the last thing needed is yet another class that will water down the fields even more. This engine option has proven quite compatible, & for those already running a 9 inch diff in there stockcar, will fing there is no need to go to a quick change diff given the very wide spread of torque. I like to think we should be future proofing what we have rather then adding more 'so called' budget classes that often become expensive lemons. Another factor to concider looking forward, is the Fonterra factor. I don't think we have felt the affects of the massive payout drops that our dairy farmers are about to experience, & the same for forestry & oil, all industries that keep our sport going. I think the affect on competitor numbers looking forward will likely be quite adversely affected without quite significant gains, particularly in the dairy sector. Like it or not, a problem for the dairy farmer is a problem for NZ. No, I don't think there needs to be yet another class, rather massage what we have. Cheers, BL has the 3 car team from Eltham been enquiring about crate motors for next season?  Don't need another class just need to make the Stockcar class more STD like it was when it started up. |
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Post by brendanlucas on Jan 26, 2015 20:05:26 GMT 12
[/quote] has the 3 car team from Eltham been enquiring about crate motors for next season? [/quote] I wouldn't like to speculate on individual circumstances, but I would suspect some will feel it much harder then others, particularly those carrying a lot of debt. Probably those more affected will be contractors working in those industries, they tend to be thinned out fairly quickly in times like this. I guess only time will tell. I do agree partly with the 'Stock Car comments, there are many bits that you have to have on a stockcar now, that you wouldn't find on any road car (actual stock car), that escilate costs. A tyre limiting rule may be a good place to start, but not really anything to do with me, I don't run one. |
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Post by TonyG188r on Jan 26, 2015 20:38:19 GMT 12
Maybe I've over thought this, no actually been too ambitious in my thoughts more like it that if there would be a large boost of numbers into stockcars and enough for 3 classes but clearly our sport isn't quite at that level of growth. I'd highly agree perhaps with the making a std stock , exactly that again, u just think how much money my engines worth (too much) and then how much others have spent (even more) and then racing against others who have close to bolted a 250,000km engine and carb on. Bridging the gap one would say is what needs to happen in one form possibly.
And I have the 188r stockcar Gribbs
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