Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 7:04:30 GMT 12
You didn't mention quad bike riders in your initial rant at all just Crew and infield staff! I agree anyone wearing a quad bike should have a helmet on, But I can’t see yr type of bike helmet being of much use to standing infield staff if hit by a car. But out of interest did you wear your bike helmet that "simply quiets things down a little" when you were on the infield or simply chose not to because it was not in the rules? I’m, pretty sure there would be rules around fire extinguishers with regards to when the pin should be removed and that the operators have the correct training . Fire extinguishers have pins for a reason and if there is no sign of fire I wouldn't of thought you should be removing them. Seriously? "you didnt mention quad bike riders in your initial rant"? it was right under murrays pic of a quad rider with no helmet!! how often do crew go out onto the track? well jeez most times its because they are pushing a car out there to be push started for a race - that means its open wheel, that means usually they are on a quad. And when I was waving flags on the infield no I didnt have a helmet, I didnt have my motorbike at the time so I didnt know what it would be like. I also stopped waving flags after the 8th car that I saw come flying toward me in the one season that I did the job. thats just what the 8th i saw, not that 8th car that spun out in my direction - dust is an issue for infield staff as well. |
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stevo
Full Member
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Post by stevo on Aug 3, 2015 8:46:08 GMT 12
I know snz do some stipid things at times and to be honest i can see there reasoning behind the fire proof underwear and sock etc etc. thats sweet.
But i would live to hear there reasoning behind banning steel capped work boots?
Cant wait to here the excuses for this 1
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Post by my2cents on Aug 3, 2015 10:57:36 GMT 12
Engine seals been quoted $300 - $400. Dont SNZ staff do engine sealing?? Great little side line business
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Post by bikeboy on Aug 3, 2015 11:03:56 GMT 12
Engine seals been quoted $300 - $400. Dont SNZ staff do engine sealing?? Great little side line business none of SNZ staff do engine sealing, there is a list of approved agents that do seal engines, anytime they sealed my engine it was for free, my guess is that quote is to pull it apart and put it back together, not just sealing it, |
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Yard
Full Member
Posts: 126
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Post by Yard on Aug 3, 2015 12:30:35 GMT 12
Engine seals been quoted $300 - $400. Dont SNZ staff do engine sealing?? Great little side line business none of SNZ staff do engine sealing, there is a list of approved agents that do seal engines, anytime they sealed my engine it was for free, my guess is that quote is to pull it apart and put it back together, not just sealing it, All HVC & Technical Stewart's can seal engines. a long with the list of " approved" engine sealers. In the rules it says they can charge for there travel. But $300 to $400 |
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Post by Wiseowl on Aug 3, 2015 14:49:49 GMT 12
Are you guys serious
I can't believe what I'm reading
Lets see how you feel when you are stuck in a "burns' ward for months......
Accidents never happen... Yea right
Its always "everyone elses" fault when it DOES happen
... And then you expect the rest of the taxpayers to upkeep your recovery whilst you are in agony !!!
Try taking some responsibility for yourselves
Reading some of the posts here is really quite sad... even pathetic
Dont Blame SNZ... Blame yourselves when you have been burned in a fire.... because IT DOES HAPPEN !!
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Aug 3, 2015 19:42:44 GMT 12
Wiseowl, you are anything BUT wise, and extremely rude, in fact offensive!
Nobody has suggested or implied they are 'accident proof', that accidents never happen.
This competitor is very much self-sufficient, appreciates accepting/taking responsibility,
making my own choices and judgement calls, and rarely engage in the blame game!
Every moment, every aspect of our lives, contains risk, involves sub-conscious and conscious decisions to mitigate risks.
Ever decision includes a perceived cost and benefit.
There is a risk of fire. I have to weight up the likelihood first, the severity second.
Likelihood in my saloon is low to moderate, severity low to moderate.
I have caught fire twice in 20 years of motorsport, 13 years speedway.
My observation and experience has me fear for the safety of those who have come to my aid, in far great exposure to risk than myself.
Worst injury that took some months to completely heal ... A burn in the crutch region.
The culprit, power steering fluid! Flame retard undies didn't help! I blamed no one BUT myself.
I took steps to mitigate the risk of a repeat!
There are excellent posts, informative (eg scorpion on the infield in Palmy) with many trying to understand the logic behind much of that being imposed on competitors, frankly where there is no or little logic.
You've a few like yourself trying to justify the unjustifiable with insults and others with no basis in reality. Lots of 'what ifs'. EG: We've Bikeboy implying rescue crew/medics are in less danger of fire '...no safety crew member is tied into a car with a 5-6 point harness', nuts stuff. One flick of a thumb and my 5 point harness has collapsed. I'm protected from fire in 99.9% of cases by a near fully enclosed driver space.
In the meantime on many occasions a race night (not just one or two a season like myself) these infield folk are hanging over, up-righting potential bombs!
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Post by Wiseowl on Aug 3, 2015 20:17:32 GMT 12
Having witnessed fires over the years with most drivers believing it wont happen to them..like people outside speedway..they need protecting from their own attitudes
You may call it rude..i'd call it obvious and common sense
Money grabbing....i don't think so
Cheers
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Post by beachboy on Aug 3, 2015 21:19:49 GMT 12
Wiseowl, you are anything BUT wise, and extremely rude, in fact offensive!
Nobody has suggested or implied they are 'accident proof', that accidents never happen.
This competitor is very much self-sufficient, appreciates accepting/taking responsibility,
making my own choices and judgement calls, and rarely engage in the blame game!
Every moment, every aspect of our lives, contains risk, involves sub-conscious and conscious decisions to mitigate risks.
Ever decision includes a perceived cost and benefit.
There is a risk of fire. I have to weight up the likelihood first, the severity second.
Likelihood in my saloon is low to moderate, severity low to moderate.
I have caught fire twice in 20 years of motorsport, 13 years speedway.
My observation and experience has me fear for the safety of those who have come to my aid, in far great exposure to risk than myself.
Worst injury that took some months to completely heal ... A burn in the crutch region.
The culprit, power steering fluid! Flame retard undies didn't help! I blamed no one BUT myself.
I took steps to mitigate the risk of a repeat!
There are excellent posts, informative (eg scorpion on the infield in Palmy) with many trying to understand the logic behind much of that being imposed on competitors, frankly where there is no or little logic.
You've a few like yourself trying to justify the unjustifiable with insults and others with no basis in reality. Lots of 'what ifs'. EG: We've Bikeboy implying rescue crew/medics are in less danger of fire '...no safety crew member is tied into a car with a 5-6 point harness', nuts stuff. One flick of a thumb and my 5 point harness has collapsed. I'm protected from fire in 99.9% of cases by a near fully enclosed driver space.
In the meantime on many occasions a race night (not just one or two a season like myself) these infield folk are hanging over, up-righting potential bombs!
The fact you have to quickly get out of yr 5 point harness would more than likely be due to a accident which you could be injured and unlikely to get out of the car in a hurry, think you would then be very grateful for the infield folk to come to your aid? Out of interest what do you feel the infield people should be equipped with and who do you think should pay the extra $ to make this happen. Drivers and crew have ridiculed infield volunteers for using tractors to right over turned cars causing more damage to them, and believe man power is the best way but obviously that's something that should never be done according to some on here. |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Aug 3, 2015 22:40:32 GMT 12
Beachboy, with the belts, by myself or help, very quick and easy to detach. Often there is no additional cost required, just a critical analysis of what we are doing, what and where we are spending, and could we do it better. My daughter was for some years an infield medic, frankly, had me bloody worried as she was usually first on the scene (within seconds) and leaning directly into the vehicle, focusing on the driver, not an oil or fuel leak. Issues with tractor and drivers are rare, mostly, as with all officials, competitors and support folk, do an awesome job. Again, just a matter of a bit more thought, awareness. I know I've incurred on occasion more damage getting towed off than in an incident. Could be as simple as crossing a track diagonally instead of bouncing over the pole line and destroying the bonnet? Intrigues me that after all these years we still mostly rely on an old tractor and a three point linkage. We've seen racing held up for long periods waiting to separate two bumpers. I do have a real concern for infield safety. Would very much like to see structures as per circuit racing, protected observation/photo structures.
If there is additional cost then so be it, BUT critical is that we are seen to be NOT wasting scarce resources (as many feel over a new NZ flag for example) as it impacts on credibility.
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Post by bikeboy on Aug 4, 2015 6:10:20 GMT 12
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Post by justafan on Aug 4, 2015 6:30:27 GMT 12
haha yeah i just put the same link up on the meaneee promoter thread |
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Post by Wiseowl on Aug 4, 2015 7:34:23 GMT 12
Maybe all speedway people should read this article. It has to be realised that speedway racing is not just about the drivers nowadays. Accountability is now across the board with all sport. Here is a classic case that referees, staff, stewards and promoters are bound be govt regulations about safety and accountability. It starts getting real serious if large fines or court action is taken against NON Drivers running a meeting And some people in this discussion wonder why such rules about safety are brought in to the rules Im sorry but this is the real world.... whether I disagree with todays " lets find someone else to blame " namby namby attitude in society Cheers |
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Post by midway on Aug 6, 2015 9:06:58 GMT 12
i know of a incident where one of the best super saloon drivers speedway has scene in this country for many years been up side down ,a little shaken ,and Not been able to release his 5 point harness by a flick of anything ,with methanol leaking from fractured lines from the injection system
This is just one case ,so it does happen and nothing is full proof ..
We all need to adjust in this modern day as our great speedway sport builds new rules ,just think for a moment if there were no St Johns to take care of the accidents where injury takes place ,doctors and nurses ,a lot just take it for granted in this country ,the poor old tax payer pays for this ,and when you are admitted do they ask serious question s on the safety aspect ,no they get on with it ..
TO often people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones and accept preventive rule changes ..
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Aug 6, 2015 20:03:25 GMT 12
"I know of a incident where one of the best super saloon drivers speedway has scene in this country for many years been up side down ,a little shaken , and not been able to release his 5 point harness by a flick of anything, with methanol leaking from fractured lines from the injection system ... "
Which is why infield staff are trained in the operation of the belts.
Of course we realise the risk, likelihood of a fire occurrence and potential outcome!
Why do folk resort these unsubstantiated examples in an effort to justify the unjustifiable.
I know of a situation that involved one of the worse saloon driver ... A fire that looked huge to the spectators, that involved myself upside down, resulted from automatic fluid (gearbox) pouring over hot extractors while upside down.
The worst damage was from the fire extinguisher powder.
Even the article in regards the Meeanee incident is being misrepresented a little ...
THE BILL
The new Health and Safety Reform Bill was reported back from a select committee last week after a two-month delay.
Under the Bill, a "Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking" (PCBU) must ensure the health and safety of its workers and others, so far as is reasonably practicable.
A purely volunteer association is not classed as a PCBU, but a volunteer organisation that has some employees is, and will have the same duties as a PCBU to ensure, so far as reasonably practicable, the health and safety of its workers and others.
Anyone volunteering for a sports club will be classed as a "casual volunteer" and not a worker.
'... But it turns out the Health and Safety Reform Bill, which was reported back to Parliament by a select committee last week, will see anyone volunteering for a sports club classed as a "casual volunteer" and not a worker, so they will not have the same health and safety protections as other workers. Instead they will be treated the same as visitors or customers, much the same as they are at present.'
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Post by penman on Aug 7, 2015 16:46:05 GMT 12
"I know of a incident where one of the best super saloon drivers speedway has scene in this country for many years been up side down ,a little shaken , and not been able to release his 5 point harness by a flick of anything, with methanol leaking from fractured lines from the injection system ... "
Which is why infield staff are trained in the operation of the belts.
Of course we realise the risk, likelihood of a fire occurrence and potential outcome!
Why do folk resort these unsubstantiated examples in an effort to justify the unjustifiable.
I know of a situation that involved one of the worse saloon driver ... A fire that looked huge to the spectators, that involved myself upside down, resulted from automatic fluid (gearbox) pouring over hot extractors while upside down.
The worst damage was from the fire extinguisher powder.
Even the article in regards the Meeanee incident is being misrepresented a little ...
THE BILL
The new Health and Safety Reform Bill was reported back from a select committee last week after a two-month delay.
Under the Bill, a "Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking" (PCBU) must ensure the health and safety of its workers and others, so far as is reasonably practicable.
A purely volunteer association is not classed as a PCBU, but a volunteer organisation that has some employees is, and will have the same duties as a PCBU to ensure, so far as reasonably practicable, the health and safety of its workers and others.
Anyone volunteering for a sports club will be classed as a "casual volunteer" and not a worker.
'... But it turns out the Health and Safety Reform Bill, which was reported back to Parliament by a select committee last week, will see anyone volunteering for a sports club classed as a "casual volunteer" and not a worker, so they will not have the same health and safety protections as other workers. Instead they will be treated the same as visitors or customers, much the same as they are at present.'
Like a well-fed fungus, your argument has grown throughout this thread Murray. It's morphed from something regarding safety v fees into a suggestion of double standards by SNZ and it's volunteers/representatives...and more...and more. I just can't agree with you suggestion of this being 'epidemic'...especially when it's based purely around the safety of those involved. And THAT should be the absolute baseline on which everything is built. I'm involved in another sport both at coaching and at national steering committee level...and safety, athlete well-being and health is the driving factor that is considered before anything else...regardless of cost. Yes, maybe there's a case of double standard with the wearing of safety equipment....but that is, in itself, an entirely different issue to what you built your first argument (for the sake of argument) on in this thread. I wouldn't know you if I tripped over you in the street....but it comes across here as you having a big axe, SNZ having a big grindstone and you determined to cause some sparks.... |
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Post by midway on Aug 7, 2015 20:16:45 GMT 12
[quote source="/post/387134/ Anyone volunteering for a sports club will be classed as a "casual volunteer" and not a worker. I wouldn't know you if I tripped over you in the street....but it comes across here as you having a big axe, SNZ having a big grindstone and you determined to cause some sparks.... There was a song ,these boots were made for walking and thats what they do , and some day they will walk right over you , You can always tell, By that ever fragrance perfume smell  |
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sidecar95i
New Member
live every day to the fullest, cause you dont kow whats round the corner
Posts: 11 
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Post by sidecar95i on Oct 7, 2015 7:17:14 GMT 12
I know snz do some stipid things at times and to be honest i can see there reasoning behind the fire proof underwear and sock etc etc. thats sweet. But i would live to hear there reasoning behind banning steel capped work boots? Cant wait to here the excuses for this 1
reading the SNZ up date last night, I seen this,
Safety Footwear
Please note the revision to the Rule:
S3-8-3 Footwear (shoes and socks) of Fire retardant material and that completely
enclose the foot and cover the ankles must be worn.
(i) Standard leather upper work boots with an AS/NZS Safety Standard Label (excluding reinforced capped boots) are approved for Stockcars, & Superstocks and Streetstocks.
(ii) Socks made from 100% wool are approved.
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Post by custaxie50 on Oct 9, 2015 10:14:33 GMT 12
Harrisville last sunday,i was thinking what if it goes up after seeing one or too stockcar drivers out there without their race gear on...and I think it may have been one of those who rolled also...we have the very sad case in palmy this Wednesday gone didnt we..where a stockcar went up and as for the driver..well all anyone can do at this time is hope like hell its not as bad as one thinks when it comes to being in a fire...all the best from me.
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Post by beachboy on Oct 9, 2015 17:33:06 GMT 12
Well with these extra costs our team of three w streetstocks may not be racing this season On top of $50 increase in licence fees we have to have flame proof under wear at $200 or 2layer overalls at $450 Engine seals been quoted $300 - $400 And race boots $100 Would have been better to faze it in over a few seasons so increase of $650 - $1000 extra just to get out there then we got $175 club fees I agree with making the sport safer but we are getting priced out I welcome your thoughts other low budget racers Cheers Hayden Bonner streetstock 24 w
It's an epidemic Hayden, incrementally forcing the traditional kiwi speedway racer out of or into alternative motorsports or affiliations.
Low or high budget isn't the point, neither is 'faze it in' in most instances.
The focus should be on prioritisation and evidence based rule changes rather than the present sheep like mentality that seems to invade unabated every bureaucracy.
'Flameproof underwear' .... ye gods!
Do you Guy's still feel the same way? |
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