Approved Wheels (Read 8,501 times)

[Yard]

As in my last post here-----
Only a Tech Stewart can stamp them to say that they are compliant. ----
A Vehicle checker can only put the date stamp on____
As for can they tell the difference---it is in front of them written out with photos.
Down loadable off SNZ web site for all to look at.----
Had 30 wheels done only have 13 left.

[TimSOZ]

Maybe we should go back to basics as to why these new rules were almost unanimously voted in by the delegates at the AGM in June.

Firstly these rules were not voted in by the Board, or the then CEO. They were moved/seconded and voted on by 2 delegates from each track.

Over the last two years a large number of non-compliant wheels were discovered within the sport. Some were blatant counterfeit wheels i.e. thinner and untested versions of approved wheels. Others were wheels of a different design & construction that had never been tested and therefore had never been approved as per the requirements of the rulebook. Many of these wheels failed, many more had not. Either way they were not compliant with the rules, which is why SNZ advised competitors on many occasions to use the provisions of the Consumer Guarantees Act when dealing with suppliers.

Despite not being an issue that SNZ would be liable for in a worst case scenario, it was highly likely that a member would be put through the ringer if a serious accident occurred in which it was found that their wheels were non-compliant. As mentioned previously a competitor was charged with manslaughter nearly 20 years ago, and into today's Health & Safety environment the ramifications are probably even more frightening. Hence the need to tidy up this aspect of the sport and ensure ALL competitors are running wheels that meet one of two requirements:-

1 - the standard rules for manufactured centres eg 8mm thick with various design and welding specs
2 - a tested and approved wheel where the specifications don't meet the requirements in 1

If we use an example of the wheels as shown on the 13k Saloon as raced last season, then there are 2 issues that should mean changes are required before it can hit the track in the new season:-
1 - in June members at the AGM (not the Board or CEO) voted to ban 6 pin hubs, from the start of the 2015/16 season. So hubs that were legal became non-compliant.
2 - some of the wheel centres on the car were not as per the approved wheels in the old rulebook, i.e. they had never been compliant.

So while most of us do sympathise with your plight Murray, you are one of thousands of competitors over the years who have had to make changes to your car as a result of off-season rule adjustments. And frankly, as someone who had to take hundreds of calls and deal with thousands of emails from people in exactly the same position as Murray, I think I have more understanding than anyone else in the country about how frustrating these things can be for speedway competitors who put their heart, soul and a good part of their budget into the sport. It's why it's really important that competitors get involved in the decision making process from the beginning, as is their right. Thankfully, any changes going forward will be via the consultation process and not voted on by delegates at the AGM. That more than anything proves that the sport as a whole is keen to ensure the best quality decisions are made.

[panicstations]

Thanks Tim, I for one find your last post much more helpful and informative than most of the other posts written on this particular subject (including most of your previous posts which just infuriated effected competitors)

[dontpanic]

OK Ive have been reading these threads on the subject and quietly trying to work out if the wheel centres on my saloon are going to be compliant this season, and Im getting worried.

Like most with conventional 5 stud front hubs my saloon car has had a 6mm pressed D window wheel centre for the last 12 seasons, looking at the guide lines these centres are only approved for stock/super stock.

It seems like the only centre approved for a saloon car with HQ hubs would be a 8mm cut centre as per SNZ spec.

I rang our tracks senior tech guy today but he couldn't confirm anything at this stage.

Can someone confirm if 6mm pressed D window centres will be stamped for Saloon cars this season?

Brendon

[japsuper]

Hi Brendon, from my reading the rules it would seem that you are correct. I've got US made wide 5 front wheels which are either Bassett or Aero brand which don't seem to comply as haven't been bought new with the appropriate stamp.

[dontpanic]

Hi Japsuper

As I understand if your wide 5 wheel centres measure up on spec with the current approved type then the cvi checker can apply the SNZ stamp,(as well as the seasonal CVI stamp) so your wheels will become approved.

However I don't see any other pressed centres approved for saloons period? that is going to affect a bunch of saloon racers this season unless I am missing something?

Could be a slow start to the racing season.

[japsuper]

That's good, Just dropped off a bunch of rear wheels to get new centres put in to replace 6 pins. Don't need anymore expense.

[Yard]

Sept 22, 2015 20:08:01 GMT 12 dontpanic said:

Hi Japsuper

As I understand if your wide 5 wheel centres measure up on spec with the current approved type then the cvi checker can apply the SNZ stamp,(as well as the seasonal CVI stamp) so your wheels will become approved.

However I don't see any other pressed centres approved for saloons period? that is going to affect a bunch of saloon racers this season unless I am missing something?

Could be a slow start to the racing season.

your cvi checker can not put the SNZ stamp on your wheels only the tech Stewart cAn

[dontpanic]

Hi Yard

Thanks for the clarification re CVI/Tech Steward, is there a Tech Steward assigned at every track or is this something that has to be done at a higher level than a typical green sheeting day.

Also can you confirm that there is no approved pressed centre for a saloon car with a conventional 5 stud pattern hub eg Holden HQ

We would rather know because there is no time between green sheeting and opening night meetings, I see potential for a sudden a bottle neck on supply and fabricating services.

Brendon

[Yard]

Sept 22, 2015 21:14:05 GMT 12 dontpanic said:

Hi Yard

Thanks for the clarification re CVI/Tech Steward, is there a Tech Steward assigned at every track or is this something that has to be done at a higher level than a typical green sheeting day.

Also can you confirm that there is no approved pressed centre for a saloon car with a conventional 5 stud pattern hub eg Holden HQ

We would rather know because there is no time between green sheeting and opening night meetings, I see potential for a sudden a bottle neck on supply and fabricating services.

Brendon

not sure we're you run out of sorry. Like yourself I have to wait to see the second list.

[Murray Guy (Grandad)]

All too late for this ol' racer BUT hopefully lessons are learnt and the KISS principle is applied for the future.

Failure to do so will only result in an elitist sport affordable by a few, far removed from the speedway of yesteryear and it's intent.
The alternative speedway organisations will grow and evolve, taking over the role once played SNZ.
Ashburton, Waihi Beach facilities and structures will flourish.

[dontpanic]

Ok so the second list coming this week may yet confirm pressed 6mm D windows are approved for saloons... otherwise they are not.

I am kind hoping that common sense will or has prevailed,these things have been a staple for NZ Saloons and Super saloons for about 12 years or more without problems, they are currently approved for NZ stock/super stocks, I understand they are basically designed for and used on every dirt or asphalt stock car and modified in the USA.

Ill shut up now and wait for the second list

Brendon

[dontpanic]

Yep ageed, it sounds like there is a second list of approved wheels to be released by the end of this week, so Ill wait a few days before I make any further decisions about this.

[Murray Guy (Grandad)]

Sept 22, 2015 23:06:05 GMT 12 dontpanic said:

Yep ageed, it sounds like there is a second list of approved wheels to be released by the end of this week, so Ill wait a few days before I make any further decisions about this.

Says Tim,

".... in June members at the AGM (not the Board or CEO) voted to ban 6 pin hubs"

Tim ignores the fact that members at the AGM are often dependant on the CEO and Board advice in regards these matters.
It would seem that they did not get any advice or what the AGM delegates got was very flawed, unresearched knee jerk stuff.
There in NO inherent flaw with a 6 pin hub or wheel centre that cannot easily be managed.

[mod46c]

Sept 23, 2015 13:08:19 GMT 12 Murray Guy (Grandad) said:

Sept 22, 2015 23:06:05 GMT 12 dontpanic said:

Yep ageed, it sounds like there is a second list of approved wheels to be released by the end of this week, so Ill wait a few days before I make any further decisions about this.

Says Tim,

".... in June members at the AGM (not the Board or CEO) voted to ban 6 pin hubs"

Tim ignores the fact that members at the AGM are often dependant on the CEO and Board advice in regards these matters.
It would seem that they did not get any advice or what the AGM delegates got was very flawed, unresearched knee jerk stuff.
There in NO inherent flaw with a 6 pin hub or wheel centre that cannot easily be managed.

Personally I'm unsure how the competitor delegates worked out how to vote, no competitor meeting was held at my licensed track (WFG) that I'm aware off to discuss this remit. The remit was added to the ballot after the last scheduled competitor meeting was held. In fact if I recall correctly this remit was marked as withdrawn at the last meeting. Personally I would have voted no to this rewrite if I had been given the chance.

[dontpanic]

I just spoke to Elite wheels and found out that one of there D windows is listed OK for Stock cars but if you open the spec sheet it says approved for ALL CLASSES
I interpret this as OK for a saloon car as should any existing D window wheel with the same dimensions,if approved by an SNZ Tech Steward, material thickness is 6.5mm

[Yard]

Some other news about six pin wheels.
You may now use 6 pin wheels. (again ) Minimum thickness on the front is 8mm.
Minimum left rear 8 mm.
Minimum right rear is 10 mm.
For super saloons, saloons, modified's.

[Murray Guy (Grandad)]

Sept 23, 2015 15:01:51 GMT 12 Yard said:

Some other news about six pin wheels.
You may now use 6 pin wheels. (again ) Minimum thickness on the front is 8mm.
Minimum left rear 8 mm.
Minimum right rear is 10 mm.
For super saloons, saloons, modified's.

Where the hell is this BS coming from???
Who on earth has 10mm 6 pin centres or any other centre aside from the early days with a carlos special??

The situation is actually worse than I thought, had I decided to hang in there.
I've holden front hubs and stubs as do many competitors.
They are D window 6mm as per the super stock approved centres.

Looks like a helliva lot more saloon competitors than I first realised are impacted by these hair brained edicts by those in the shadows,
still with absolutely NO rational.
Have spoken to a few SNZ tech folk, none of whom can get any answers, none of whom have any issues (and they are at the coal face).
Getting crazier by the day.

Is someone trying to 'save face' BUT at the same time just giving the appearance of applying common sense?

[beachboy]

On average how many rims does a saloon car competitor replace in a season compared to a Super stock?

How many meetings-seasons would a non contact class rim-hub go through before needing to be replaced with a new one because of damage compared to a contact class rim-hub?

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2015 22:42:10 GMT 12 beachboy said:

On average how many rims does a saloon car competitor replace in a season compared to a Super stock?

How many meetings-seasons would a non contact class rim-hub go through before needing to be replaced with a new one because of damage compared to a contact class rim-hub?

well beach boy if the competitor has avoided any major incidents then he or she may have to shell out for absolutely no new rims.

If you look at Geoff Webbs spectacular attempt at a ballerinas pirouette at speedfest and ask nicely, he will happily tell you he lost two rims that night. the worst damaged was actually a front rim not a rear one. I know this because I crew for Geoff and I was the one who removed the tyres from them a week later.

It has already been proven that a heavier rim is less safe than what we currently use on the big wheel cars, its been proven multiple times - I cant understand why they keep insisting on this half arsed, semi researched, idiotic rule that even with the best of intentions is still actually worse than what we had!

I went through the new rules for rims and re wrote them once to condense what they said into less space and make it simpler to understand. not only was my version less than half a page compared to thiers, it was far and away easier for non engineers to understand - the average joe bloggs still looks at the rule book and thinks "WTF??" I know I do - I had to look up what some of the terms meant...