saloon engine rule question (Read 3,418 times)

[lsuakme]

i dont have a copy of the rulebook with me but there is a rule for saloons/a grades in the snz book that says about engines must be from that car model/manufacturer. i dont believe this had anything specific about it being from the same generation so for example (I'll use the monaro to explain my point) could i run an hq body with an ls1 or an ht with a cv6 3800? both engines come from the model name but different generation, just using these bodies as an example. also the holden 186 that was a motor in the ht can an rb30e be run as it was a 186ci holden motor in the vls? i believe also dohc up to 3.5 so a rb30de maybe?

[Deleted]

T11-2-34 Engine
(a) Same manufacturer as nominated road car
(b) Same number of cylinders as nominated road car
(c) Same configuration as nominated roadcar eg V8, inline 6, V6

So any engine used in say a 1965 ford mustang can be used in a 1965 ford mustang saloon - they had v8 and a straight six options, but you dont have to use the same year engines - a 1965 engine is not required, you can use any size v8 up to the legal limit - 361.5 ci I think - or any straight six up to the same. the generation of the engine is not a consideration.

This means you can have a vl commodore with a Nissan straight six or a chev v8 provided they are legal within the rest of the rules.

A bit of trivia, I bet you didn't know you could have a vn commodore with v6 engine, or a straight six engine, or a four cylinder engine, if you didn't want the favorite v8 engine? All models released from factory - not changed by importers.

for your monaro with an HT body - you'll need to run the engine types they used the year its written down as, so yes - the v8 options are fine, both Holden and chev v8 as they are the parent company anyway. As to the six cylinder options though, no v6 allowed but yes you can use the Nissan straight sixes if you want something a bit more modern than a 186 or 202..

Sadly - you can only have four valve up to 3015cc, so your 3 litre engine is as big as you can go with multi cam engines - the rb30de still fits in this range though.

any gearbox you like behind whatever engine you choose - as long as it is from a road car.

Hope this helps!

[lsuakme]

yea thats what i was after cheers Rhodesta. I did actually know that funnily enough, I have one with a 3800 as my current race car. c20ne or something similar was the 4 banger i believe and followed the vl with an rb20e 6 to my knowledge. cant imagine the old 4 banger would be any good in the big old boat that is a vn

[Deleted]

Nov 6, 2016 13:47:10 GMT 12 lsuakme said:

yea thats what i was after cheers Rhodesta. I did actually know that funnily enough, I have one with a 3800 as my current race car. c20ne or something similar was the 4 banger i believe and followed the vl with an rb20e 6 to my knowledge. cant imagine the old 4 banger would be any good in the big old boat that is a vn

yeah the four banger was the camtech engine found in the camira with an oddball opel five speed box and a 4.11 diff ratio.

Surprisingly good for towing but hopeless for speed. the first gear ratio is 4.1 as well, great for towing - can pull a block of flats! - useless for getting started since second gear is so far up the range afterwards.

[lsuakme]

just going to add to this because i hate adding useless threads, does anyone think that the 6 cylinder motors can be competitive in the saloons grade? i know most will be running v8s but theres a few i'm not sure of (71c willie woodhouse sounds like it could be a 6, same as the 17c falcon). again unsure if its just the exhaust note or if there are competitve 6's out there in saloons. 6 bangers im thinking of would be the ea-au falcon motors (or even the xf as i have a 4.1w/3spd auto handy) and commodore v6s vn-vy or whatever had the 3.8s?

[Deleted]

Personally I think they are good motors - but this may be influenced by my saloon having have an au straight six in it when hits the track.

Couple of cars in auckland are v6 - john hopewells is one with a nissan v6. theres a rotary up there too, hard to say if they are good engines for the class, as far as I know they are wrecker engines and bog standard - against worked v8's.

ryan marsden 54c started with a straight six in his, ba falcon motor in the a grade - won a few things down south, I saw a video of one race where he was side by side with a 355chev the whole way. driving to the car and track more than relying on horsepower to stay out of trouble.

Lance Slaters 55h cortina from a few years back was an au falcon engine and was apparently a very good car, won races here and there - memorably won three out of three at both kihikihi and rotorua in the lead up to lances retirement from racing.

bog standard engines will keep you around mid pack or back marker - but id say drop a bog standard in and learn the car before adding horsepower. thats my plan anyway.

[lsuakme]

I figured the au motors would be quite good, even in stock form, any recommendations for transmissions and rear ends (to run at woodford glen)? Have a bw35 3spd auto in an xf

[Deleted]

the bw three speed is pretty popular in aussie behind alot of falcon motors - if you can though get a manual. holden four speed or three speed is the best for saloons - they take alot of grunt - after that ford three speeds from the bigger cars.

as far as diff goe's alot of guys used to run morris commercial - getting rare now though. if you can grab one i would, other than that use a stock car diff - hilux/nissan/mazda etc and run in second gear. or even better, a quickchange diff - at some point youll want to upgrade to a quickchange anyway so it could pay to simply biff the money at it now and grab a second hand unit from someone.

[lsuakme]

what kind of ratios should i be looking at? im guessing it will be 4 or 5.something

[Deleted]

if running in second youll want about 4.3 to 4.1 diff, running in top gear youll want about 6.5 ratio in the diff - thats most morris commercial diffs. ive heard a good ratio for a lower revving engine is 5.7 but i dont know if thats correct or not.

[thirt33n]

Is there a thread anywhere dedicated to saloons running non-v8 engines?

[lsuakme]

Just going to ask this on here, does anyone know who to talk to about saloon body dimensions? it says in the rules something about there being logged dimensions for certain bodies and i wanna check what things i need to consider when designing my chassis. I have now purchased a Marley Fibreglass Corvette body (same as Malcolm Ngatais 19c Super) however with a bit of chopping and changing it could very easily be turned into a mk3 toyota supra, letting me run a 6 banger for cost and learning preference.

[porry41]

thirt33n have you not read the above posts by rhodstar.re 6cly saloons...Lsuakme i have scruttineers hand book with all the past saloon etc body diamensions but not up to date .if its a super just screw on a couple sheets corrogated iron ..ask blondie ...lol....

[lsuakme]

It'll definitely be a saloon to start with, may progress to a super in time. where can we get scrutineers handbooks or if possible would you be able to message me the dimensions for corvette and mk3 supra? cheers

[bonezman]

Question, is the gm 602 allowed as a saloon engine IE Superstock trial motor

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2017 20:49:45 GMT 12 bonezman said:

Question, is the gm 602 allowed as a saloon engine IE Superstock trial motor

its a tough question to answer without looking at the part numbers etc.

Being built by chev themselves its fairly likely to be legal, after all the block is supposed to be almost the same as an old four bolt motor and the heads are 1996 chevy truck vortex design, however the intake manifold wont suit at all {dual plane in a saloon doesnt work too well apparently, so I would grab a single plane with a bit of air gap}

I suggest sending a quick email to the tech committee about this one just in case.

[bonezman]

Thanks chap, had a good talk with Nelson. Looks like there are some changes in the wind worth waiting for and a new direction which the sport desperately needs so will hold off awhile on engine decisions.