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Post by John W. on Apr 29, 2018 18:09:59 GMT 12
Just seen this post on the Open Wheel forum macgor.proboards.com/thread/36070/western-springs-march-2019I am curious about some of the information. Is Waikaraka's pits half the size of Western Springs? Waikaraka Park can fir 100 cars and transporters (when teams cooperate with the parking instructions - take note some classes with oversized rigs and wanting an acre to set up). Curius to know the competitor numbers? I see they average about 20 Sprintcars...what about the other classes? Yes - they get bigger crowds - but so would Waikaraka Park if they had the stand. Council have not spent any money on Waikaraka Park for a few years and the loss of the grandstand was huge. The upkeep of the park is due to the work by volunteers. What were crowd numbers like between the two venues before the grandstand was condemned? |
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Post by orapiuwharf on Apr 29, 2018 19:04:54 GMT 12
Exactly. I can remember when the standard nights had bigger crowds than the championship nights now. The grandstand was full 30 minutes before the start time and the gates were closed to the park before start time due to too many people on championship nights. Yes there were some issues a few yeas back and the promoter is doing a awesome job. The issue is the temporary grandstand is only suitable for skinny people. The park is just so run down it is not nice. Imagine a nice new stadium wow. Modifieds will rule the open wheel classes in Auckland.
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Post by champhawkeyes on May 2, 2018 6:07:00 GMT 12
I listened to the interview on radio sports seems to be very ;positive that it may not be moving closing etc as the speedway has a lot of support to stay there so I suppose its a waiting game to see how the vote goes later this month in may or did I hear incorrectly
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Post by midway on May 2, 2018 13:48:21 GMT 12
The ASSCc pay the auckland city council or super city a very marginal sum of revenue for the use of that park per year .
It is up to the club to maintain the place not the council .
I n recent years it came to a arrangement i guess ,to allow a club run promoter with the council under the terms it has with the council .
Far different situation at western springs has a promoter(spl) not a club that pays the council for having the privilege to run there and takes the coppers it makes .
I guess the council takes note that the grandstand at wacky park was built long before the club arrived ,there fore it has a obligation to remedy the situation slightly in its present condition ,as far as temporary seating is concerned .
The big question of the day,is if the springs loose and the rfa move its venue to wacky park who will run the venue ,private promotion like sPL,or other wise .
I would think the ASSCc would be a club ,but have very little say in the new venture as it would be similar to Palmy ,and the Springs with the council, as a Promoter would take place by the council in the best interests of the ratepayers ..
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 14:04:37 GMT 12
I admit I haven't been following recent developments very closely, but last I'd heard was that WS promotion had walked away from talks with the councils facility management group about relocation to Wacky Park. Given that is there anything to stop WP (either the promotion or the ASSCC, whoever it is that holds the track licence) from just adding sprintcars, midgets & quarter midgets to their list of contracted classes they run should the Auckland council decide WS will no longer exist as a speedway venue, thus shutting out the current promotion at the springs who on the face of it (as I see it) seem unwilling to even be at the table.
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Post by lorryathuntly on May 2, 2018 17:59:49 GMT 12
Now the Warrior's Rugby Leaque have been sold to the Carlaw Park Trust , may be the Council
concept of moving both WS and WP to Mt Smart might be a bit closer.
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Post by BarryB on May 2, 2018 18:44:35 GMT 12
Now the Warrior's Rugby Leaque have been sold to the Carlaw Park Trust , may be the Council concept of moving both WS and WP to Mt Smart might be a bit closer. Why? The Warriors won't be moving anywhere.... Barry B |
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Post by BarryB on May 2, 2018 18:45:15 GMT 12
I admit I haven't been following recent developments very closely, but last I'd heard was that WS promotion had walked away from talks with the councils facility management group about relocation to Wacky Park. Given that is there anything to stop WP (either the promotion or the ASSCC, whoever it is that holds the track licence) from just adding sprintcars, midgets & quarter midgets to their list of contracted classes they run should the Auckland council decide WS will no longer exist as a speedway venue, thus shutting out the current promotion at the springs who on the face of it (as I see it) seem unwilling to even be at the table. I think SPL did the right thing there. Barry B |
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Post by Rota on May 2, 2018 20:56:43 GMT 12
Warriors have like another 10 year lease at Mt Smart.
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Post by John W. on May 2, 2018 22:21:58 GMT 12
I admit I haven't been following recent developments very closely, but last I'd heard was that WS promotion had walked away from talks with the councils facility management group about relocation to Wacky Park. Given that is there anything to stop WP (either the promotion or the ASSCC, whoever it is that holds the track licence) from just adding sprintcars, midgets & quarter midgets to their list of contracted classes they run should the Auckland council decide WS will no longer exist as a speedway venue, thus shutting out the current promotion at the springs who on the face of it (as I see it) seem unwilling to even be at the table. I think SPL did the right thing there. Barry B Why do you think that? Do you not think speedway would benefit by some unity (either single track or 2 tracks working together)? With the current setup the 2 tracks are essentially competing for a similar customer and competitor base. If both groups worked together, pooled advertising funds and did not hold competing meetings then Speedway in general would benefit...Currently I see a lot of vitriol on that other thread against Waikaraka Park. Comments like "No way would the open wheelers want to merge & have to share pits with the WP classes" if they are a true representation of the driver feeling then it is a big worry to the sport. But I suspect it is scaremongering and trolling...I seem to remember a meeting a few weeks ago where they did share the pits together...and most of the drivers had a great time. The classes also "live together" at many other tracks. One thing to consider....Speedway were offered a purpose built facility...somewhere. At that stage the venue was not decided. Greg chose to walk away from the discussions and essentially removed himself from any further options. His only avenue now is to try and convince everyone to keep status quo...unfortuntely things do change over time..things do change over time. There will be a time when Western Springs (and WEaikaraka Park) will have to move as the land will be just too valuable to justify them staying. We should try and position Speedway to make the best gain when that happens. And get the best benefit for out sport. The current disparity and vitriol is not helping at all. John p.s. my connection to this debate is I am a class rep...and want to get the best result for my Saloon and SuperSaloon drivers. How about other post there reasons for being involved in this debate so we can see who is in it for personal gain and who is looking to improve a class or the sport as a whole. |
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Post by nakifans on May 3, 2018 5:18:36 GMT 12
Read Percy's article Western Spring's On Death's Door in May issue of Dirt Track Racing.
In a nutshell the RFA seems willing to spend $26m rebuilding a new complex at Waikaraka. Track will be more like an open wheeler track modelled on Eagle Speedway Nebraska. Be 1/3 mile track with graduated banking and be suitable for open wheelers and all saloons but not stock cars ,streetstocks or ministocks. The investment will also expand spectator and pit facilities. The proposed investment would make it one of the premiere facilities in the southern hemisphere. New Waikaraka be able to hold 35 motorsports events per year.
Not a done deal as there is a lobbing well underway to have the council reject the proposal at this months meeting.
To me rejecting this offer would be like rejecting the Govt's proposal to build and pay for a waterfront multi sport arena a few years ago which left us with the white elephant Eden Park and it's associated debt and limited use. The only way to retain WS would be to buy all the surrounding properties and remove the problem which limits it's use, but to do this would make the $26m for a new purpose built track look like peanuts. Both tracks should of looked at the motorsport park proposal out the airport way more closely a few years back.
To look forward we can't look back and that seems to be the problem we have at the moment. 12 meetings v's 35 good starting point to move forward.
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Post by John W. on May 3, 2018 8:10:12 GMT 12
Read Percy's article Western Spring's On Death's Door in May issue of Dirt Track Racing. In a nutshell the RFA seems willing to spend $26m rebuilding a new complex at Waikaraka. Track will be more like an open wheeler track modelled on Eagle Speedway Nebraska. Be 1/3 mile track with graduated banking and be suitable for open wheelers and all saloons but not stock cars ,streetstocks or ministocks. The investment will also expand spectator and pit facilities. The proposed investment would make it one of the premiere facilities in the southern hemisphere. New Waikaraka be able to hold 35 motorsports events per year. Not a done deal as there is a lobbing well underway to have the council reject the proposal at this months meeting. To me rejecting this offer would be like rejecting the Govt's proposal to build and pay for a waterfront multi sport arena a few years ago which left us with the white elephant Eden Park and it's associated debt and limited use. The only way to retain WS would be to buy all the surrounding properties and remove the problem which limits it's use, but to do this would make the $26m for a new purpose built track look like peanuts. Both tracks should of looked at the motorsport park proposal out the airport way more closely a few years back. To look forward we can't look back and that seems to be the problem we have at the moment. 12 meetings v's 35 good starting point to move forward. Fully agree... Status Quo will not always be there..take what you can get when you can get it. As for banking etc...until we see plans etc that should not be taken as gospel. Something like that I would have thought would be discussed after track upgrades are confirmed as it would not require too much change to have flat/banked/highly banked track... Another way to setup the track is have a wall about 30cm higher than you need to...then you could add some banking for big open wheeler events and prepare a flat track for stockcars. Colin Dale was quickly dropped I think...Issues with being under flight path, so restrictions on capacity, bust, lighting and vehicle access. The only options are Waikaraka and Rosedale. If Western Springs want to continue they need to change the Unitary Plan not the RFA. And council will not be keen to change Unitary Plan as that then opens door to others who want change (remember frozen peas during price freeze - one got changed and all hell broke loose with others wanting change). But - no matter what happens, both groups of drivers should be trying to work together. The unfortunate think for Springs drivers is they have no club. They are individual drivers licensed to a promoter who has a financial interest. ASSCC is a club of drivers who contract a promoter to help organise and promote the actual meetings, but the club are in control. John |
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Post by tank11 on May 3, 2018 8:28:29 GMT 12
Read Percy's article Western Spring's On Death's Door in May issue of Dirt Track Racing. In a nutshell the RFA seems willing to spend $26m rebuilding a new complex at Waikaraka. Track will be more like an open wheeler track modelled on Eagle Speedway Nebraska. Be 1/3 mile track with graduated banking and be suitable for open wheelers and all saloons but not stock cars ,streetstocks or ministocks. The investment will also expand spectator and pit facilities. The proposed investment would make it one of the premiere facilities in the southern hemisphere. New Waikaraka be able to hold 35 motorsports events per year. Not a done deal as there is a lobbing well underway to have the council reject the proposal at this months meeting. To me rejecting this offer would be like rejecting the Govt's proposal to build and pay for a waterfront multi sport arena a few years ago which left us with the white elephant Eden Park and it's associated debt and limited use. The only way to retain WS would be to buy all the surrounding properties and remove the problem which limits it's use, but to do this would make the $26m for a new purpose built track look like peanuts. Both tracks should of looked at the motorsport park proposal out the airport way more closely a few years back. To look forward we can't look back and that seems to be the problem we have at the moment. 12 meetings v's 35 good starting point to move forward. Fully agree... Status Quo will not always be there..take what you can get when you can get it. As for banking etc...until we see plans etc that should not be taken as gospel. Something like that I would have thought would be discussed after track upgrades are confirmed as it would not require too much change to have flat/banked/highly banked track... Another way to setup the track is have a wall about 30cm higher than you need to...then you could add some banking for big open wheeler events and prepare a flat track for stockcars. Colin Dale was quickly dropped I think...Issues with being under flight path, so restrictions on capacity, bust, lighting and vehicle access. The only options are Waikaraka and Rosedale. If Western Springs want to continue they need to change the Unitary Plan not the RFA. And council will not be keen to change Unitary Plan as that then opens door to others who want change (remember frozen peas during price freeze - one got changed and all hell broke loose with others wanting change). But - no matter what happens, both groups of drivers should be trying to work together. The unfortunate think for Springs drivers is they have no club. They are individual drivers licensed to a promoter who has a financial interest. ASSCC is a club of drivers who contract a promoter to help organise and promote the actual meetings, but the club are in control. John What's wrong with a bit of banking for stock cars? Heard all this before Gisborne's first defense. Was some extreme action in it and about the same second time around. |
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Post by John W. on May 3, 2018 8:33:27 GMT 12
Fully agree... Status Quo will not always be there..take what you can get when you can get it. As for banking etc...until we see plans etc that should not be taken as gospel. Something like that I would have thought would be discussed after track upgrades are confirmed as it would not require too much change to have flat/banked/highly banked track... Another way to setup the track is have a wall about 30cm higher than you need to...then you could add some banking for big open wheeler events and prepare a flat track for stockcars. Colin Dale was quickly dropped I think...Issues with being under flight path, so restrictions on capacity, bust, lighting and vehicle access. The only options are Waikaraka and Rosedale. If Western Springs want to continue they need to change the Unitary Plan not the RFA. And council will not be keen to change Unitary Plan as that then opens door to others who want change (remember frozen peas during price freeze - one got changed and all hell broke loose with others wanting change). But - no matter what happens, both groups of drivers should be trying to work together. The unfortunate think for Springs drivers is they have no club. They are individual drivers licensed to a promoter who has a financial interest. ASSCC is a club of drivers who contract a promoter to help organise and promote the actual meetings, but the club are in control. John What's wrong with a bit of banking for stock cars? Heard all this before Gisborne's first defense. Was some extreme action in it and about the same second time around. Open Wheelers like more banking than stock cars...but you can get something that suits both....its called balance and needs both groups to work together. :-) Some banking can be good for stockcars...but not to the extent of Eagle Plains - but this may be wrong as stockcars have never driven around Eagle Plains so it is just an assumption. |
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Post by orapiuwharf on May 3, 2018 9:57:42 GMT 12
The son of baypark would be ideal. Same size pole line, OD to be bought in 2 mtrs and banked to a mid point to suit suit all classes. Stand would have a capacity of 12000.
There would also be a entrance gate and a exit gate not one gate.
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Post by hmac on May 3, 2018 12:29:42 GMT 12
Couple of things....being pedantic, there aint no Eagle Plains. It's Eagle Raceway, on the outskirts of Lincoln ,Nebraska. Was an old haunt of mine back in the day. Great track, but....I don't beleive the RFA has any intention whatsoever of building/funding such a venture. Would cost a lot more than $26mil. Bit of a smokescreen methinks. I think the reason Mosen walked away from the talks, was because of when asked anything "concrete" , or getting down to the the nuts n bolts, the RFA have nothing, just a vague response of little actual substance. They talk about freeing up the Springs to hold 40+ events etc, but they can't name what those are. Test cricket venue? Lucky if there will be one test match per year in Auckland, remembering that one-day internationals, provincal cricket etc etc, will all still be played at Eden Park. So far , none of the plans the RFA have tried to push have come to fruition. Turf the Warriors out of Mt Smart? Nup. Reason they gave was it was gonna cost $70 million to bring the stadium up to standard. $40m of that was to build a 4-story carpark for god sake. Then they wanted to shift them off to North Harbour.....Brilliant.
Auckland's a big city. The existing situation ain't broke, or wasn't until they started meddling, but it seems outfits like the RFA are trying what they can to break things, cause they have a bee in there bonnett over how they want things to go.
The RFA keep saying that WS is not classed as a Motorsport presinct. Well it was... until they decided to change it, think it was 2012, might be wrong on the year, but reasonably recent. Institutionalised beauracrats of the highest order. Total numpties.
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Post by midway on May 3, 2018 14:29:17 GMT 12
Survival of the fittest will be the out come at the end of the day ..
The ASSCC on current trends this season and beyond seem to be struggling to say the least ,crowd attendances down ,oh forgot the grandstand is no longer ,but temporary seating in place but that cant be filled either on numerous occasions ..
The Saloon rep wants to build numbers up in both classes ,but where has the Super Saloon Nationals disappeared too ?? once a very good meeting with a good engraved cup to match ,plus was a good money spinner for the club .
Now the springs has adopted rolling thunder ,yes it pulls attendances and yes it gets good coverage on t/v sports ,it is shows like this that have left the AssCc which its club title stand for ..
The club once had sidecars and solos ,do they exist anymore ?? oh no just demo derbys fill the place to capacity once or twice a year perhaps
Might sound like a attack on the place ,but it isnt moving forward ,the only thing positive is the concept of the rfa moving the springs out and bring the sport into amalgamation ..
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Post by hienekenno1 on May 3, 2018 14:59:06 GMT 12
Even if the springs does get to stay a bit longer I hope the council still spend a little bit of money on Waikaraka to spruce it up a little bit,its pretty depressing to go to at the moment.I wouldn't reckamen to anyone to go to Waikaraka the way it is at the moment and that's coming from someone who has been going to Waikaraka for over 45 years.
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Post by John W. on May 3, 2018 20:10:48 GMT 12
The son of baypark would be ideal. Same size pole line, OD to be bought in 2 mtrs and banked to a mid point to suit suit all classes. Stand would have a capacity of 12000. There would also be a entrance gate and a exit gate not one gate. Umm. so you want a bigger track? Waikaraka is probably biggest pole line in country. John |
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Post by orapiuwharf on May 3, 2018 20:18:40 GMT 12
The only real issue with Baypark it is too wide and could do with some banking. Sure you could push out the pole line by 2m. Although I am really most interested in Modifieds and Saloons lets face it Stockcars are huge at every track that runs them. These guys need a track they want to race on.
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