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Post by 777d on May 1, 2008 22:52:53 GMT 12
i cant beleave the price for a saloon? all right its a super with a restricted motor but come on i thought saloons were a stepping stone towards the supers?  another case of the stupid rule changes that have priced another class out of the average mans pocket! when will it stop? |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on May 1, 2008 23:49:14 GMT 12
Saloons are not a 'stepping stone to super saloons', anymore than stocks are a stepping stone to super stocks, modifieds to sprintcars. Quite seperate, quite different attributes. A number of present saloon competitors have raced both saloons and super saloons.
The roller saloon is little different to the super in features and cost if the latest rules are applied. You don't get any change out of $25,000 if you have a saloon built for you, a brand new roller, minus engine, gearbox, drive shaft. A reasonably competitive strong engine from new will set you back a minimum of $12,000. Again, employing someone, not a homer.
The most significant cost difference is the saloon engine.
If you've got the skills to get to the top 10, and want to be there, reality is you will likely have to invest in a second hand saloon $25,000 plus.
I hear some say, Phil Towgood has an old car and budget package. Yeh, right.
Reality is unless you've the engineering and or mechanical skills, it's going to cost.
To be a regular top finisher in the super saloons you can add a minimum $30,000. (Again, there is always the exception).
This is 2008. You can still buy a budget saloon for $10-12,000 and have fun. But like any sport, if want a little extra, you pay a lot more!
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Post by Rossco on May 2, 2008 7:31:36 GMT 12
Yeah well said Murray,You can not just look at one very new very well made car with lots of pretty bits on and take it as the cost to compete. The law of diminishing return applies to saloons,the first car gives you the most fun for the least spent,then you want a little extra as murray says and it costs alot more.There are a few saloons cheaper than Scots.Also about three years ago a certain ENOS sold a very pretty saloon car for about $35000 so compared to the price rise in fuel ,power,milk etc, Saloons have come down in price. Cheers 77k
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Post by Ricoshea on May 2, 2008 8:04:23 GMT 12
Murray, you are correct in my opinion. there was a time, and not so long ago, i would have argued that stockcars are a budget class ( same for saloons ) but they have been evolving for a long time.
now, i believe that stockcars are a stand alone class and not a budget class, and like any other type of speedway class, there are entry level cars and the hot rods.
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Post by blackwidow on May 2, 2008 9:01:17 GMT 12
Murray, you are correct in my opinion. there was a time, and not so long ago, i would have argued that stockcars are a budget class ( same for saloons ) but they have been evolving for a long time. now, i believe that stockcars are a stand alone class and not a budget class, and like any other type of speedway class, there are entry level cars and the hot rods. Definately, but at least in Stockys you can still purchase a affordable car and turn right ;D |
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Post by knownotmuch on May 2, 2008 10:50:08 GMT 12
Definately, but at least in Stockys you can still purchase a affordable car and turn right ;D[/quote] I'm sure we have all seen a few Saloon drivers that think the same  Every class is a budget class just some require a bigger budget than others. I have always thought of Saloons and Stockcars as stand alone classes not little brothers to the Supers. As for $38500 being to much for a Saloon well until someone pays it that is not the price just a request from the owner. |
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Post by BarryB on May 2, 2008 10:57:38 GMT 12
It's still cheaper than one Super Saloon that's for sale - as a rolling chassis only.
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Post by Wiseowl on May 2, 2008 12:28:31 GMT 12
Barry
I find this topic both serious..and sick !!
Imagine what us " Oldies" will be saying about the " New Wanganui Proposed " BUDGET " 2 Litre Stockcar Class in another 5 Years...
Yep... another Class that started for all the wrong reasons.
It seems easier to fix a problem... BEFORE it starts... rather than trying to DOWNSCALE things.... when it's too late
Read this posting on the 2nd of May 2013
History ALWAYS repeats & NO ONE Learns from their Mistakes
Cheers
Wiseowl
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hermo
Full Member
Posts: 199
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Post by hermo on May 3, 2008 10:36:54 GMT 12
Gee you're sounding a bit old there wise one, I think all classes are budget classes, it's just that every ones budget is different, people have different priorities and some people can and will always spend more than others and you cant regulate against that.
Murray is right saloons are not a stepping stone to anything, they are saloons and as for the price to buy one, try to build one for that, you might get an engine and a diff for $38k but not too much else. Smaller budget cars will always compete with bigger budget cars but it's not always about money, I personally like to have good gear and I dont really care what it costs, other people dont care about the gear and thats fine by me, I just want to race them, then have a bourbon with them after.
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Post by GavS on May 3, 2008 12:57:07 GMT 12
the sadder part is you can get a sprint car for less
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on May 3, 2008 13:54:07 GMT 12
the sadder part is you can get a sprint car for less But keep it in perspective ... Buying a complete sprintcar package less than $55,000 will likely buy you a sprintcar that isn't going to have you at the front (except while towing on the highway), will likely be significantly down in horsepower and or reliability. A starter investment. You can buy a saloon with the same characteristics for under $15,000. |
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Post by GavS on May 3, 2008 14:28:58 GMT 12
the sadder part is you can get a sprint car for less But keep it in perspective ... Buying a complete sprintcar package less than $55,000 will likely buy you a sprintcar that isn't going to have you at the front (except while towing on the highway), will likely be significantly down in horsepower and or reliability. A starter investment. You can buy a saloon with the same characteristics for under $15,000. not entirely true, i believe some of teh guys are getting great sprintcars out of the states for cheap, as well as near new tyres, and spares, lots of them, i know of a container arriving in the future with 3 cars 6 engines , heaps of tyres and spares heaps of them, i dont know where the cars are heading, and wont tell who is bringing them in, i know they read this board but arnt a member YET |
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Post by GavS on May 3, 2008 14:30:53 GMT 12
but all thats is slightly off topic, at the end of the the car is only worth what someone pays for it, if it sells, them someone thought the car and class is worth that much, if it doesn't sell them its not
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Post by nzf2stocks. on May 3, 2008 21:38:00 GMT 12
The only way to get a "true" budget class is how they do it at some tracks in Aussie. The promotion owns all the cars (RWD Gallants I think), they stay at the track and are maintained by one person, And are leased on a night by night basis to drivers signed up to the series. You dont get the same car again, and all the cars are equal. The only time I've seen this was at Surfers International Raceway which closed about 15 years ago. There was usually 25-30 cars on track and the racing was hard, fast and fun.
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Post by coolpass on May 4, 2008 2:40:14 GMT 12
Off topic but if you buy one of these $20,000 second hand sprintcar motors with all the best bits that has been thrashed for a season, you don't really know what condition it is in. So its a luck game unless your prepared to rebuilt it & spend many more $$ refreshing it. One top American driver that game to Perth a couple of years back & blew an $80,000 motor in practice & basically threw it away & a new one went onboard. So to compete at the very pointy end of sprinters you gotta spend at least $80,000. You can buy a brand new sprintcar roller for 22k. The cost of saloons Vs supers is not much difference with wide 5s allowed, quickchange etc. someone in saloons can easily blow away 20 k+ on a motor. I would say some saloon drivers would of spent 50K+ on their cars, but still mr Towgood can win  |
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Post by mintie on May 4, 2008 7:27:15 GMT 12
The market will set the price and people will pay what they feel is necessary to get the gear they want to race at a level they want to.
Some build their own cars completely, some have chassis built, some do some of the work and the list will go on forever. Every time we get a topic started like this it ends up in all sorts of runaway tangents. Don't question what is it selling for because I can bet that it probably owes the owner more than that figure
So lets put it this way, i can advertise the product for what ever i like, but what I sell it for is between me and the buyer.
I do however have a plastic BIC pen that is still useable and I would like to sell it for $100 after all it has sentimental value as I used it at Stratford for the NZ championship, any buyers.........
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Post by Admin on May 4, 2008 9:43:27 GMT 12
I do however have a plastic BIC pen that is still useable and I would like to sell it for $100 after all it has sentimental value as I used it at Stratford for the NZ championship, any buyers......... Give you 50 cents for it |
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Post by Speedway Central (David) on May 4, 2008 10:00:44 GMT 12
I do however have a plastic BIC pen that is still useable and I would like to sell it for $100 after all it has sentimental value as I used it at Stratford for the NZ championship, any buyers......... Give you 50 cents for it $1 |
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Post by ministock85h on May 27, 2008 16:29:47 GMT 12
The only way to get a "true" budget class is how they do it at some tracks in Aussie. The promotion owns all the cars (RWD Gallants I think), they stay at the track and are maintained by one person, And are leased on a night by night basis to drivers signed up to the series. You dont get the same car again, and all the cars are equal. The only time I've seen this was at Surfers International Raceway which closed about 15 years ago. There was usually 25-30 cars on track and the racing was hard, fast and fun. Atleast this will stop the cheating in some classes, and unfair advantages. Maybe some tracks should do this aswell? Like have another class called "Budget Productions" or something. I know Waihi has the same sorta idea (Stockcars for a day = $50) but the cars arnt owned by the speedway. |
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Post by DTM1 on May 27, 2008 16:35:41 GMT 12
Atleast this will stop the cheating in some classes, and unfair advantages. Maybe some tracks should do this aswell? Like have another class called "Budget Productions" or something. I know Waihi has the same sorta idea (Stockcars for a day = $50) but the cars arnt owned by the speedway. For all the accusations of cheating that get flung around,99% would be nothing more than losers looking for reasons why they are losers and with nothing more than defeat behind their reasoning. |
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