How important IS the view of the paying public? (Read 3,970 times)

[YankeeClipper10H]

Was just wondering where the flag marshall stood during the race??

[pallmall]

A great thread, and we need to clone Karen Carey and install those clones in one or two tracks in the north of the country.

As somebody who has seen nearly as many speedway meetings as Wiseowl, or maybe more, I can understand that meetings I may have enjoyed some years ago, don't turn me on in the same way anymore, I think my real issue is the formats that some tracks run at the weekly meetings.
I don't want to focus on any one track, and this happens at a couple I attend regularly. Three races per class per night from front, middle, rear grids get very boring for the spectator, and I am sure for some drivers. Some good handicapping would create a show and for the contact classes some action as the cars from the back try come through to the front, certainly would work for the non contact classes as well.

Drums would be good for the stockcar races, all the OSH excuse is just nonsense, it can happen. Biggest problem is getting the drums that are clean and haven't been used for toxic materials, there were some questionable ones used back in the day. We had about 6 or 8 drums out for the Historic cars at WP last year, and while the whole thing was a staged show, the crowd loved it.

One other thing, back in the olden days , and before daylight saving, racing started at 8pm, and was over by 10.30pm. Today there are too many classes per meeting and the meetings are far too long as a result.

Balance is important, but drive the spectators away and the drivers would soon follow, they all want to race in front of a big crowd............end result no speedway.

[Admin]

One of the best shows I ever witnessed was at the old Baypark .
It started at 7.30 pm and finished at 9.30 .
4 classes and 16 races or perhaps 14 .
I left wanting to come back for more

Used to be the standard was each class got 4 races .

[rebel1]

Its a bit like cricket. People responded favourably to one day cricket because it finished within seven hours and the public could make a day of it as opposed to five day cricket. Now 20/20 is in favour as it is over in three hours and people dont need to spend the whole day there.
Its the same with golf. Less people are playing than previously because five hours is a long time out of peoples day and there time is precious. 9 holes has more appeal.
Keep the speedway to 3 hours as much as possible and everyone knows where they are and more people will stay to the end

[BarryB]

Cheers ladies and gentlemen.........especially Karen C. No wonder Nelson is doin' well..............

[karencarey]

Awe shucks guys thanks. Now Im blushing.

[nzf2stocks.]

Dec 16, 2008 7:31:21 GMT 12 YankeeClipper10H said:

I used to enjoy stockcars because of the contact and crashes.
I don't go to stockcars any more as the races are generally a procession. The cars appear to have "like" magnets in their siderails that reppell each other.

Now I go to the speedway at Western Springs. There are more crashes and thrills than you get with stockcars these days.

Crashes, flips, rolls, sprintcars wheel standing the length of the straights, sprintcars doing 360 degree piroettes on one tyre landing on all fours and then blasting up the track and then last week one incident that had three sprintcars crash and roll on separate incidents at the same time in the first two turns of the track.

Now thats speedway entertainment.

Its fast racing, full fields, quick fire show with minimal gaps between races and its all done by 10:30pm.

Its a quick show that is a good show (thanks Aaron).

And its a show that works every time !!!!!!!

Yes thats exiting for the punters, but think of the dollar value of the repairs that the owners have to fork out, usually out of thier own pockets. It doesn't take long for the owners to run out of budget, then the crowd complain that there are small fields. There is the mentality that crashes make the show, when in reality they are destroying the show in the long term. To say racing is boring because there are no crashes is missing the point, especially in non contact classes. Some of the most exiting superstock racing I have seen didn't involve cars strewn all over the place in bits. Then again, teams racing is the best there is, but would any promotor or track survive if they had to put out that sort prize/appearance money each week? Without that sort of financial backing youd be down to half a dozen cars by christmas time, or you'd be paying $100 at the gate. You have to put the drivers first, without them there is no show.

[Ngahihi o te ra]

Kia ora
Wow what a cool thread. Great reading. I also agree with the comments made regarding karen, awesome insight.
One key word used was balance and I think Sonja and the team here at the place of Paradise have managed to develop good balance.
Balance is the club nights when the paying public only pay $5 for a club night and know that the evening is more for the drivers than the BOSS (spectators) - but they are still going to get value for money.
Balance is also the 240's at the Paradise when the BOSS has to get to the track early to get a car park near the track, but the drivers are also going to get good money for value.
I agree that there are several key clients involved in Speedway, the paying public, the drivers and the administrators. One of the keys is also maintaining a balance between each of these and ensuring their needs are being met so they feel they are getting good value for their input throughout the season.
They say the squeaky wheel gets the oil. You know you have achieved balance when no one is squeaking because their needs have already been identified and met. We are fortunate to have many examples of "non squeaking" tracks throughout NZ.
Green flags and green lights

[wolfysmith]

The simple fact is that if any track needs paying customers in order to continue to operate then yes, the club need to listen to those fans in order to ensure that those fans keep on coming back.

Working in marketing and customer relations field of financial services, the clients I deal with look to remain competitive by ensuring they undertake regular market research. This data tells them who their customers are, what they think of the company and the products it sells. It also provides data around the socio-economic background of the customers and highlights lifestyle changes. This data is used to ensure that the bank tailors its services and products to what it's customers want and by doing so ensures it wins new customers and retains it's existing ones too. Communication is a two way street.

One of my big gripes about stock car racing here in the UK is that there appears to be absolutely no market research undertaken of the fans. Promoters plough on with what they perceive the punters want without ever thinking to ask them if it really is what they want. In order to stay in business - any business - you need to ensure what you're offering your customers is relevant to what they want, otherwise they'll stop being your customers. This appears to be something overlooked here in the UK. Both promoters and fans scratch their heads and wonder where all the fans have gone. Maybe, if someone had undertaken a little market research over the last 20 years, they'd have discovered what the sport was doing right and doing wrong and made changes that ensured the fans kept on coming back through the turnstiles. Of course, this never happened and the fans have deserted the sport in droves. Even now, convincing promoters to actively engage in dialogue with the fan base is an uphill task. Sure, forums like this can provide valuable feedback, but it's usually the haunt of the committed race fan. What about Average Joe family who go along to their local track on a Saturday night for some high octane entertainment but don't use forums like this? Where is their voice? If these families don't perceive oval racing offers the kind of family night entertainment they are seeking, they'll simply vote with their feet and go watch/do something else that they do feel ticks all the right boxes. It can be something as simple as clean toilets that can either win or lose you paying customers through the turnstiles. In today's leisure market, there are thousands of forms of entertainment all vying for the average families leisure expenditure, oval racing needs to ensure it stays ahead of the game by ensuring it understands what it's customers wants from their night out at the speedway.

If anyone doesn't believe in the relevance of the power of marketing and market research within sport, they need to read 'The Elusive Fan'. I would suggest that this is made compulsory reading matter for any decision maker at any club and SPANZ

[BarryB]

Great post wolfy..........yes, I think sometimes a promotion will - and this is not restricted to just of the speedway variety - put a show on and expect the people to come, and expect those that do, to enjoy it.......for no other reason than they've gone to a lot of trouble and expense to arrange it, SO IT MUST BE GOOD!!!! They do this because they're too self-indulgent perhaps? It's what they think is you want to pay to see, so it must be what you want to pay to see. Right? Wrong!!

They, THEY!!! need to know and understand their fan.

Otherwise, they're not really "shows", you know the sort, the Claytons Show, the show that you're putting on when you're not really putting on a show......

[BarryB]

Dec 16, 2008 21:53:45 GMT 12 nzf2stocks. said:

Then again, teams racing is the best there is, but would any promotor or track survive if they had to put out that sort prize/appearance money each week? ................... You have to put the drivers first, without them there is no show.

I think you'll find that, despite the huge travel/prize money on offer, a well promoted Super Stock Teams meeting has to subsidize the many nights during a season where the driver is put first. You know the nights, when there's "just racing" for all classes, but nothing special for the punter to watch.

And if there was a giant teams meriting every weekend, it wouldn't get the same attendances either. We could certainly cope with more, but not every weekend. We need variety, but we need it to be worth watching as well.........

[Ricoshea]

the other factor in teams racing, is that for weeks after the event, things start to break that previously were fine.

[strx7]

Dec 15, 2008 11:46:49 GMT 12 TonyT said:

Dec 15, 2008 11:39:56 GMT 12 BarryB said:

Yes, so just how important IS the view of the paying public/spectator?

Is speedway a show or a sport?

I think this is pretty easily summed up.

Its a sport until you pay the drivers to turn up, because surely then, its just like a film/show and the drivers/actors are getting paid to put on a show...........

[nzf2stocks.]

And even though there is prize and appearance money paid at most tracks it at most a token, a small percentage of the costs of racing a car. I don't believe that NZ speedway will ever be big enough to fully fund all the drivers, even in the glamour classes. If the public want a "show" they would have to pay show prices, ie, how much does a ticket to a decent concert cost these days? $80...$100? Yet the public expect to get the same entertainment for $15 or $20. There has to be balance, not only in the entertainment offered but in the publics expectations. To cover costs racing a car most promoters would only be able to afford half a dozen cars in each class. That would get SO boring. We are not NZV8 tourers that have big sponsorship and TV income etc. So the public cannot expect the same level of commitment from the drivers. By the way, how much does it cost for a tier 1 meeting at Pukekohe?
The point I'm making is that the vast majority of racers are amatures who do it for the love of the sport. It's this love that entertains the crowd. If the focus was on getting the best racing for the drivers the love of the game would spill out and make it a great show for the public. If you treat the drivers like circus entertainers that are soley there to entertain the public the love for the racing fades, and the racing suffers.

[wolfysmith]

You have to remember that there are three parties in this sport - the drivers, the clubs/promoters and the fans. Take one of those three parts of the whole out of the circle and you've got no sport. Simple as.

It seems from reading some posts on here that people feel that 'entertainment' and 'sport' are two completely seperate things. Sport is serious. Entertainment is frivilous. Sorry, don't agree; most sports are entertaining, that's why people turn up to watch them. Are the All Blacks not a sports team simply because people turn up to watch them play? No, they are sports team who play seriously and by doing so, they entertain and thus can charge a fee to the spectators.

As I've said, spectator sports rely of customers and like all industries that rely on customers to make a buck they need to pay heed to what their customers think about the service they provide.

However, this does not revolve around what happens on track. I've been to great domestic meetings at places like Paradise as much as I've been entertained at the Team Champs.

Fans expectations of what to expect will depend on how an event is marketed. What you have to realise though is that fans will judge on event on whether they feel they have got value for money.

It's not all about having teams racing every week but about ensuring meetings don't drag on forever, clean toilets, decent catering stands, family friendly pricing policies etc etc.

The simple fact is that we can all guess at what we think the average fan wants from a speedway event but the only way to find out is to go ask them and make sure that you act on the information you're given.

Sometimes you're told stuff that you don't like, but bury your head in the sand and ignore it and you'll start to see fewer and fewer faces in the stands each week.

[Ngahihi o te ra]

Kia ora Wolfysmith,
Your posts remind me of one of the concepts from my marketing degree
"If it ain't broke - fix it!"
because soon it will be broken and customers will stop coming or someone down the road will create something that will take away your customers away and break it for you.
Key word being customer and making sure we identify and meet their needs - at a profit.
As many have pointed out there are three groups of customers involved in speedway - the fans, the drivers and the administrators.
In my humble opinion the administrators are very important to the overall marketing strategies for speedway and we definitely do not want to lose them - several stockcar tracks have suffered big time as a result of losing the administration customer because something wasn't fixed before it broke or - they were offered something of more value for their voluntary services.
Good research and marketing and the application of the research findings depends strongly on the administrators doing their jobs -case in point - the research conducted by the team from the place of Paradise (Paul Hickey and Co) and the amazing changes that have occured as a result.
Here's a question to consider. Who looks after the administrators to ensure their needs are met?
Green flags and green lights and administrators filling out green sheets.

[BarryB]

Dec 16, 2008 21:53:45 GMT 12 nzf2stocks. said:

You have to put the drivers first, without them there is no show.

Just remember though, that clubs/tracks have expenses too, and even though you might be happy racing without spectators, who is going to pay to keep the track open and in a raceable state?

Some clubs, like Gisborne, own their facilities, but still have rates, water (and lots of it), advertising, machinery, staff etc to worry about. Others, like the Springs, WP, Palmy etc are council owned, but the respective promotions sure don't get to use the facilty for free.

And then there's the likes of Stratford that lease their establishment from the local A & P I think.......I'm sure that arrangement would not continue without the land owners getting a retun on their investment.

So whatever the situation, for the club to put on a track for you to race on, they need income - and lots of it. And that's WITHOUT paying any prize and/or travel money!!! Sponsors won't put any money into a club with no spectators, so there's only one place that money is going to come from.

SPECTATORS

These people will soon find something else to do on a Saturday night if speedway becomes too boring or too expensive - just as many have over the years. It's much easier to lose them than it is to win them back.............

[Deleted]

Very interesting thread.

Ill keep it short(this may be a first), But I agree with BArry's last post, sums it up perfectly imho.

[Geoff public]

Heres the details of the book Woolfie recomended
The elusive fan : reinventing sports in a crowded marketplace / Irving Rein, Philip Kotler, Ben Shields
Publisher: New York : McGraw-Hill, c2006.
ISBN: 9780071454094 (alk. paper)
0071454098 (alk. paper) .
Will fill things in before the teams in Wellington nicely

GO THE ALLEYCATS

[BarryB]

No it doesn't Mike, but i don't believe your argument is relevent.

The drivers CHOOSE to pay that sort of money on their cars and their racing, knowing full well that prize money, appearance money and travel money is NEVER going to come close to covering those costs. But that's their choice............

The same way spectators can, and will, CHOOSE to do something else on a Saturday night when the show is crap, or at the very least not considered value for money.

I'm not trying to suggest that spectators pay for the cost of racing, but they do pay for the place to race - and that's a fact. A $120K Superstock wouldn't be much fun in the back paddock......