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Post by BarryB on Dec 15, 2008 11:39:56 GMT 12
Yes, so just how important IS the view of the paying public/spectator? And how much do some club/committee/promotions people really care? Recent posts have wandering minds wanting to know Should a member of the public really be considered/treated any different because they write a blog or review afterwards? Is their opinion different because they express their views in writing, as opposed to verbally? Recent comment here at macgors would suggest so........ We keep reading suggestions how certain scribes should spend time behind the scenes to see "what really happens"......yet macgor's call for the very same club people to pay to get in and sit with us on the embankment is met with disdain from most of the same said people. Should the paying public be considered more, and kept more informed as to what's going on during the night? And why can't some people associated with a club under fire - any club, it happens to them all at some point in time - take off their rose tinted glasses for a moment, and calmly consider the views of their customers rationally, instead of just dismissing them as "grizzling", suggesting everything is fine and that they should merely go elsewhere. I enjoyed Pallmall's analogy with a restaurant, and their chef. Surely a track, any track, wants the same thing? Bums on seats and happy patrons is what it's all about. Isn't it?
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Post by TonyT on Dec 15, 2008 11:46:49 GMT 12
Yes, so just how important IS the view of the paying public/spectator? Is speedway a show or a sport? If its a sport, then its run primarily for the benefit of its competitors, if its a show then its run primarily for the benefit of the spectators. Sort that little connumdrum out and you might be close to finding an answer to your question.
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Post by Ricoshea on Dec 15, 2008 11:53:03 GMT 12
this does not answer your question, but is part of the overall equation. frequently, we hear the phrase " put on a show " for the spectators etc i have long held the opinion that we do not go out to put on a show, we go out to race. and surely the point of racing is to achieve the best result you can. however, the by product of racing can be to provide a show or spectacle.
i have no doubt that some of the stockcar faithful will totally disagree with me.
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Post by nogrip-31gm on Dec 15, 2008 11:59:33 GMT 12
but then youd have to ask the drivers,do you do it for the win or for fun?
i do care what the spectators think,they pay money to watch,they want to see action and some organisation.if they dont like what they paid to se ethey will go home and not come again,so for that 1 person who was dissapointed the club will loose $10 each meet,say 10 meets,thats $100..it soon adds up with more people not paying.
so we need to put on a show,and if your there to win have fun doing it.or why do it at all..
i couldnt race yesterday but i still drove the 3 hrs each way and paid the $10 to watch.and was really chuffed at the "show" greenstone had put on,was well run,good commentary and some good hits in all classes.
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Post by modsprintsnz on Dec 15, 2008 12:09:05 GMT 12
A very good question.....and one that can be looked in a MANY various ways. First up the written word can be taken in SO many different ways - was that "constructive critisism" or an all out "attack" _ guess that comes down to how the reader reads it as well as their frame of mind at the time! I have been on the recieving end of some not to pleasent comments over a review that I wrote last season about a certain track and the conditions they expected a class to run on - it was simply too wet - nothing more, this was pointed out in my review and as a result the officials threatened to throw the class off thie programme - lets be honest here the public dont want to see cars putting around the track - trying to go the right direction, or alternatively wiping out half the field on a wet track .........were my comments an attack, or advice/constructive critisism? I'm one of those "scribes" - lets use the term loosely - I merely tap on a keyboard and hopefully what comes off the other end makes sense!!! :-) that has been on both sides to a degree - firstly as a spectator, and then as pit-crew for some racecars, it certainly gives you a differing view on things being on the other side of the fence - and actually in some ways you seem to care more about "what goes on" when you are crewing etc.... that wet track where cars are spinning out might be laughed off by the average spectator, yet as crew you seem to get a bit more highly charged about - how they could let the race even start! After all - it's you that has to repair the damage - and the driver that has to pay for it. Is that something club officials need to take into account? I guess the paying public's view should be taken on board - after all without the public there is no show to be seen, which means no dollars through the gates. Opinions need to be read how it is intended and taken into context and clubs need to realise that things DONT always go right and they will get a bad-wrap for it (even if not publicly exposed - word of mouth can sometimes do more damage) Lets be honest - there will NEVER be a perfect speedway meeting held - something will always arrise to upset someone! Clubs should appreciate that people are going to meetings and taking the time to write about them (even if not always what the people want to hear) this is a form of publicity for the track/club. And finally - lets not forget - we do on occasion get some positive feedback on clubs/meetings...... Sdemon
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Post by karencarey on Dec 15, 2008 12:35:51 GMT 12
Speedway is a show put on by people competing in their chosen sport just the same as the olympics, rugby, show jumping etc. The people who go to watch are there to watch the entire show. The competitors are there to excell within their chosen sport. When the competitors are happy, racing well with good sized fields of like minded people then that part of the "show" is excellent. Promotors have to excell in their role within the show as well. Ensuring the said good fields, providing clean well presented facilities, quick turnarounds between racing, keeping the commentators informed of the formats, drivers etc, so they can keep the crowds entertained, informative souvineer programes, quick accurate race results etc etc. Volunteers and officials have to play their part also. As for taking critisim. I don't bother getting into a slanging match when someone says something against Nelson. Yes sometimes I get ratty reading it but then have to remember it isn't actually a personal attack so get over it and try to go and find out if what they said is correct and if so try to fix it. Even after our best meetings I turn up at committee with a list of things I think we could do better at. As for reporting well I write a review wearing rose coloured glasses because it is my job to convince people to come and watch. I highlight the good stuff and don't mention the rest. Pete McNae is my most favourite barometer. If he reports that the meeting was great then it was. If he writes that it was poop then it was. Others ring him up and go ape because he critised their class but that is his job he is a reporter and reports what he sees, the spectators are the customers and tell you if they don't think they got value for money, the volunteers and officials are the workers and will tell you if they do not like their working conditions and the competitors are the players and if they aren't happy where and how we make them play they will tell us too. So the promotor becomes the juggler. It isn't easy but it can be darn rewarding. My view anyway. If only we lived in the perfect world where everything I just said could actually happen
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Wayne
Full Member
Posts: 186
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Post by Wayne on Dec 15, 2008 12:37:21 GMT 12
This is a very tough subject. As yes the paying public need to enjoy themselves and get good viewing to make money. But I don't think you can blame a club for not putting on a show. If a club doesn't have super stocks, or super saloons, sprint cars etc, it's not really the clubs fault. Here in Gisborne we only have 1 super stock, so they don't race very often. 3 super saloons, 3 TQ's. The racing is pretty thin in the high class racing. If we took out the ministocks, Production Saloon, and bikes, which may not be as pleasing to the public we would only have 12 races a night. Will people come to see 12 races.
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Post by lowrpms on Dec 15, 2008 12:38:01 GMT 12
Vitally important:thats the short answer.Speedway can't obviously survive without them.I am involved with the stock/superstock side of speedway and in my personal view(I never said right)I think that these two classes are the crowd pulling ones.Talk too these drivers,crew and followers and they would mostly agree.But at my workplace when I mention speedway to people their(male and female)who hardly ever or havn't at all ventured to the local track its the Demolition Derby's that they would most likely take their kids too or want to see themselves.Personally I wouldn't cross the road to see one(no offence people just my view)but there's many a reason why more track effort should be put into this class.Exposing new people to driving and watching will help clubs hugely with a payback down the line I'm sure. So to finish,fes tracks should take note of what people are wanting to see more of,even if it's not what we personally want. Maybe this post relates more to the yet to come public rather than the"paying public"your heading refers too.
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Post by Ricoshea on Dec 15, 2008 12:46:54 GMT 12
i kind of like the " karencarey " reply,
perhaps the key word not mentioned, but implied
" BALANCE "
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Post by BarryB on Dec 15, 2008 13:19:47 GMT 12
Some good points of view so far, and yes, I think balance is the key word. Competitors sometimes feel it's all about them, likewise the public, and the clubs are caught in the middle. Without all three, and sponsors, speedway does not even get off the ground. Sponsors won't sponsor without fans turning up however, and yes, I know fans won't turn up without competitors. Bottom line is, everybody MUST look after each other...........
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Post by Admin on Dec 15, 2008 13:43:04 GMT 12
and where do we place the order for 20 more Karen Careys?.
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Post by Wiseowl on Dec 15, 2008 14:07:57 GMT 12
An Interesting topic
For what its worth... here is my opinion
The way I see it...
1. If a meeting is held & there is FREE admission.... then for mine...... its a meeting for the Drivers,Crew & supporters benefit
2. If a meeting is held, promoted, advertised and GATE FEE charged..... then its for the paying customers benefit...... therefor.. they must be catered for...be involved.. and be entertained with a proper professional attitude....
I have also read with interest on another topic on this board that a scribe gets " grief"... just because others take offence to what he has written...
At the end of the day... if someone writes an article about HIS opinion of a meeting held......thats HIS opinion... Just because you may not agree with it.....so be it...... write your own and give YOUR opinion.....The public are the judges !!
I have been to more meetings of speedway than " hot dinners". I could write an endless book about some of the poorly-run meetings I have paid to see over the years.. Dont think the paying public are blind at meetings like some of you think... they are more aware about how they wish to be entertained than you may 1st think!!
And... say I choose to write what I think of a meeting....thats my opinion....end of story.... MY OPINION....If I get bad press about what I have written......I will be judged next time..... Worrying about what people might say if I am critical should not be a factor....as some people DONT WANT TO HEAR the truth....or are unaware there is a problem !!!
Food for thought.....All you speedway followers
Cheers
Wiseowl
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Post by rebel1 on Dec 15, 2008 15:21:51 GMT 12
Very interesting thread Barry. My answer to your question is I would say very important. More important than anyone else in Speedway ? I honestly dont know ! I believe that it is also about balance - including drivers ( and their families ), sponsors, club and track staff and promoters. Is any one group more important than any other, not so sure. Without any one of these you would struggle. There is a couple of things that we dont well in NZ. One is to celebrate success and the second is that we dont take criticism or feedback well. We tend to blame everyone else for when things dont go right and dont want to take any responsibility for when things are not. There is a japanese word "Kaisen" which means continuous improvement and which we all ( including myself ) should try and aspire to daily. In my opinion Rotorua and WG are two examples of tracks that seek to better themselves and offer great racing on a consistent basis. Stratford last year with the NZ stockcars, Rotorua with the 240s and the World of Stocks and Palmy with the Teams racing are examples of when events work at the highest level and the fans as a result support these events. The answer to how to improve upon what we already have is to look at what works, celebrate this, understand what needs to be done when things dont go right ( as things dont from time to time ) and strive to get it right next time. One day ( hopefully sooner rather than later ) I will be involved on the other side of the fence and will be a driver. Right now I am not sure which class but I would love to experience driving on speedway tracks and all that it has to offer. That will not make me more important than anybody else but hopefully I will be better informed about what takes place in speedway as a result. I know that the fun part of driving will be a huge part but knowing me as I do I will aspire to being the best that I can be when I do take up the challenge. Will it make me any more important than anybody else, no. To answer your question Barry I hope every speedway track believes that the paying public is important. An important cog within a wheel that is vital along with all the other important components. One of the real positives of a site such as Macgors is that everyone involved with Speedway from the fan through to the CEO of Speedway can participate. I dont know of any other sport where this is currently possible. Wow, what an opportunity to keep improving on what we already have which is pretty bloody good already !
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Post by BarryB on Dec 15, 2008 19:04:56 GMT 12
One of the real positives of a site such as Macgors is that everyone involved with Speedway from the fan through to the CEO of Speedway can participate. I dont know of any other sport where this is currently possible. Wow, what an opportunity to keep improving on what we already have which is pretty bloody good already ! Funnily enough, myself, macgor and the CEO spent a very pleasant and informal morning discussing all things speedway not that many weeks ago.....I'm not sure everybody agrees with us however ;D ;D ;D ;D Yes, this site is certainly great for speedway, and has a very important role to play..............
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Post by YankeeClipper10H on Dec 15, 2008 19:42:51 GMT 12
Its called "INTERDEPENDENCY". Everyone works with everyone towards success. No one individual can do the job without the others being involved.
And just for thought......if you look at a speedway/stockcar meeting as being a shop (ie business) what as the proprieter do you do to encourage customers into the store............ and when they've made their purchase what do you do to encourage the customer to return to your store another time??
Perhaps one answer is "Value for Money".
Its not always the cheapest price that wins a customer over but if they feel that their money has been well spent and that they have enjoyed the experience then you will have a regular customer OR they will spread their satisfaction by word of mouth which as many of us know is one of the best forms of advertising available............ and all that its cost the selller is some good service.
If you have no customers (spectators)- you have no income.
If you have no income - you have no business (speedway).
If you have no business - you have no staff (drivers/racers,crews)
Worth thinking about isn't it.
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Post by muzzzar on Dec 15, 2008 20:33:28 GMT 12
Its nice to think that the view of the paying public should be considered important .....but thats all .... just nice. As a family we have travelled all over the North Island and the top of the South following speedway and have been asked once for our views, at Rotorua a few years ago. That club, in our opinion, cares. Maybe Nelson as well I suspect but have only been there twice. We decided years ago to follow certain drivers , if they are happy racing at a track we will pay to watch. To that end I am happier that the tracks pander to the driver/crews than the paying public. Its easier for us. And we always read Macgors for our info.
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Post by eddiek on Dec 15, 2008 21:09:52 GMT 12
I think an important question here is how do we define 'paying public'?
As someone pointed out, once you start getting 'involved' in the sport in one way or another, the 'paying public' status pretty much goes out the window and you become the 'paying fanatic' or the 'paying reviewer' or the 'paying photographer' or whatever. Sure you still have an opinion on value for your money, but you're judging from a completely different level than casual Mum and Dad who simply didnt want the kids to sit down watching Nick all night.
Club committee members and class reps could sit down in the stands at their own club after buying their own tickets till the cows come home and I don't think that's going make them see things any differently than how they see things while theyre wearing their staff passes and rosey glasses. They honestly need to get out and find out by ASKING Joe Casual.
Constructive criticism is a wonderful tool but the lines between constructive criticism and not constructive criticism is a very fine one.
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Dec 15, 2008 22:25:26 GMT 12
The paying public is important, but not at the expense of the competitors. When the drivers are told to stop racing and put on a show it defeats the whole purpose of being there for the driver. Happy drivers make for good racing, which is what the public want to see. If the drivers are happy they share this with other drivers which brings more cars to the track, which the public want to see. Last season the first couple of meets were a mess for me with niggly little problems with the car. The third meeting everything went well, the car was flying, I had a couple of top results, happy as, then the promotor took me aside and gave me a bolliking for "not entretaining the crowd". The following Wednesday I sold my car and havn't bothered with another.
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Post by YankeeClipper10H on Dec 15, 2008 22:58:34 GMT 12
What about $50.00 for a win OR $100.00 to entertain the crowd ?
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Dec 15, 2008 23:26:45 GMT 12
... When the drivers are told to stop racing and put on a show it defeats the whole purpose of being there for the driver. ... Last season the first couple of meets were a mess for me with niggly little problems with the car. The third meeting everything went well, the car was flying, I had a couple of top results, happy as, then the promotor took me aside and gave me a bolliking for "not entretaining the crowd". The following Wednesday I sold my car and havn't bothered with another. "I sold my car" ... that is not good. Certainly had the 'we're here to put on a show speech' myself a few times, and for the most part I'm okay with that - trouble is, the promoter isn't paying everyone the same, giving the same points to everyone! How quick a few forget the show and focus on the $'s, the points!
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