Time attitudes and rules change (Read 1,176 times)

[petero]

It is time attitudes and rules change before lady luck runs out - AGAIN !!

I did not attend the meeting, tried but for the second time this season got meeting canceled as we drove through the Manuwatu Gorge.

However did see and watched the replay of the sprint car incidents on TV.

After being involved in an incident of a wheel leaving the ball park at HB and hitting our son - so lucky just a scare and no injury - we view track fence issues and discussions with much interest.

After reading the brief outline of what happened on the Sunday night, and knowing where it happened - we love to sit at the top of the stand between turns one and two - we are staggered at lack of correspondence of the safety issue of the fence at PN and many other tracks.

We have until recently sat for many years coming into the exit of turn 4. Since the introduction of the Sprint cars (Modified's used to just as bad of course) we have since moved due dust and perceived safety issues.
For major sprint car meetings we have even sat in the main Grandstand

21V that hit the fence did not seem that high, yet demolished the catch fence and ended up in the walkway area between the safety fence and the stand.

Some may say the fence contained the car, but from what I could see on TV it absolutely demolished the fence.

I have not got all night to write what I really want to say on this matter so happy to let discussion take place.

however take this info account

# if this had have been the Saturday night and a bigger crowd, people would have been standing there, on lower level of seating, or been in transit through that area - just imagine the end result @@@@

# why did the catch fence not stop the car - and I mean by keeping the car out off the spectator area.

# imagine a stockcar or similar hitting the fence, so much heavier than a sprint car. what would happen then, I hate to imagine.

# many have seen the incident on the TV replay, so think if this same incident happened at your track, how your catch fence would hold up.
My current home track is HB and I have always considered the actual catch fence far from okay - wire ropes low, then actual catch fence set back from that, plus no inwards facing catch fence - so to stop wheels coming over the fence and hitting you !!! - refer to top comment.

# how many tracks can people get close to the fence and do so during racing, either by a walkway next to the track like say PN and HB, or as many tracks do, the pit crew hanging off the fence.

to put it another way, If this was America, how many track promoters etc would run their tracks this way in light of the liability laws

I know you can never eliminate all risk, and we attend speedway as such, however many can recount incidents where life and limb has been effected.

In a workplace, you have to eliminate or minimise risks where practical.
In simplistic terns, the same applies to speedway.

we can not afford any more incidents.
personally I would have thought the fence at PN would have stopped cars entering the spectator area - going over the top is another issue all together, yet ask the flagman about that one !!!

Even at our last meeting there (PN) a stockcar is slammed into the wall and both front shocks fly through the fence and into the bottom rows of the stand right in front of us - such items should never leave the car, let alone be able to go through the fence.

Mount up all the incidents in the past - and sorry for those who have lost loved ones or been effected by such incidents - look at your own track fence, look at what has gone wrong at other tracks around the country, and tell me it cannot happen at your track.

I am not saying some tracks should be shut down - however many could be made safer with minimal effort, even by keeping people away from the fence, walking around the fence during racing, clear the first few rows close to a fence etc.

To me, many safety issues are raised, on or off the track, however they pale into significance when the safety of the spectators - the paying public -come into the equation.

I have a lot more I would like to say on this matter, examples of safety issues at tracks we have been to, or reports we have read etc,
However I do not have all night - Santa coming and I have to get to bed.

If SCB or whatever governing body (track operator etc) think the fence safety under the current rules is okay, the many live in a dream world.
I am sick and tired of hearing that the fence complies with the current rules.

Changes need to be made and urgently before another unfortunate incident happens - AND IT WILL - just like Mr Policeman saying as sure as eggs people will be killed on the roads over the holiday period.

Peter O'Sullivan

[Deleted]

it is a great an intresting topic for a wide range of issues and reasons to debate, have often wondered when visiting tracks about fences and safety, and nowdays with ayoung family do pay a little more attention to where i would sit,
i believe issues like this are why huntly installed second catch fence last season

[33i]

i think you will find that the board are doing a safety fence revue with the findings at the next biennial confrence.

[mod46c]

As I understand it the board have engaged an Engineer to review and recommend new safety fence standards, in time for the next rule changing conference. So something is happening, it will take a bit of time to do properly.

On a side note, I notice that sprintcars tend to get into the catch fence directly, whereas stockcars are generally retained by the concrete wall, this I suspect will place different requirements on the safely fence.

[petero]

If the info on a review being undertaken is correct, then yes this would be a positive step forward.
I could imagine it has to be done right and would take a while, and even then each track may be different - look at Rotorua, for most of the track, the spectators are above the track/ fence etc so less risk compared to say my home track of HB.

Certainly the cost to replace/ upgrade fences would be a major issue, yet I also see it as one of keeping people back from the fence by a certain safety margin in case a catch fence does move back wards as it did in PN.

I guess I have always had a concern for safety at tracks, and the recent meeting at PN certainly highlighted it.
What surprised me was lack of comment what could have happened, and then it showed on TV and most comments were how good the exposure for the sport could be.
If the same incident had happened on the original planned night of Saturday, knowing where the incident was, that area is were all the push crews wait, people walking through to the pits etc.

Looking at my home track of HB, below is my own perception of issues that cause me concern.

# wire rope/ rail iron fence, only two ropes high I think, not that high.

# if you miss that, and have seen saloons into the catch fence - even on the straight - then you have what I would describe as a fence you would see around any commercial property, but no doubt slightly stronger.
would it stop a flying car, extremely unlikely and the stockcars have shown they can move it.

# a big issue at many tracks, distance from the fence, seating in most places is at wall hight, and close to the fence, so therefore is the walkway area between fence and stands - many an object has gone through the fence and hit people. So not only is it the fence, but also distance between fence and where public should be allowed.
People still walk along the fence during racing moving back to seating etc - dam dangerous when cars come flying up at the fence at you - seeing the underside of a saloon flying at you is rather scary stuff.

## security at HB can be hopeless at times - let alone the parents in control of kids. they stand there watching kids or teenagers stand in front of the fence during racing - seen this countless times. time for spectator wire rope fence to be moved way back from catch fence ?

## pit area, turn 3, the crews stand up against the fence during racing, have been told to move when the safety push is one, but next time, always back again - how many tracks do we see this at - heaps

## no in wards catch fence at HB, a fence will never stop everything, however man things that go over the top of a fence hit the wall first and gain hight from that. Therefore an in wards catch fence may help reduce items like wheels going over the fence.
The weekend our son got hit, that was the second wheel to go over into the crowd.

think of your own track, or tracks you go to on a regular basis and then relate possible safety issues, much of which is outside of the actual catch fence, especially where the crowd can be so close.

Recent comments re WG fence would concern me, never been there but photo's tell the story, May be of legal hight etc but in my opinions still way too low, yet people defended it.

as the subject reads, attitudes need to change, and much can be done now for nothing until new rules come in. Why wait.
Keep people away from the fence during racing, stop them walking along the walkway areas like HB and PN have during racing,
If seating close to track, again like HB and PN, do not allow use of say bottom two rows of seating.

We all know the result could have been different on a full night at PN and it would have been deadly and not just one or two.

Our sport does not need that

Petero

[busterbell]

nelson has just installed a new safety fence this season, at considerable cost too i might add. the new fence is better than current regulations and hindsight has included a second fence even higher so when the regulations do change we will still be better.
wire ropes were increased, think we have four now, and the new mesh installed( although at the time thought may have been to small and might have clogged with clay reducing visibility) which is of smaller area seems to work good.
after bein used to large area mesh, 100mm or whatever it was, it has taken some time to get use to but doesn't seem to hinder visibility.
there was a thread a while ago with pics of our new fence. (might be in the nelson practice #1 thread)
go take a look, i think you will be impressed, and would make a great example to take to your club for consideration.
clubs will have to do something whether they like it or not if they wish to be graded in the future for national titles.

p.s.
stolen off karen carey.

[petero]

Thanks Busterbell, now that is a vast improvement in the initial fence.
I do recall the thread on this now.
Most fences only have two wire ropes for the first line of defense and that is only one of many things that need to change.

as mentioned earlier, it is also about what happens on the spectator side of the fence that also needs to be considered.

Petero

[ex tank68p]

just my 2cents worth the catch fence in palmy did do its job by stopping the cars going into the spectator area (as they were both stopped at the wall) also the catch fence is higher by 2 and a half meters than the regulations.

well done to palmy for a good sprint car meeting

i noticed in the pic above that they are still using the old railway irons if two of these broke would it still stop a car?

yes motor sport is dangerous and no matter what safety precautions are taken im sure there will always be an element of risk

something that was told to me the other day was "the only thing with watching it on video (or tv) you only see it from that angle watch it from another and it could change your opinion "

[The Godfather]

You will note in the photo's above(more clearly in the second one) that there are poles in behind the front fence with a kickout on the top.

This will be the eventual height of the mesh fence when it is completed(as funds allow). It will be a vast improvement on what was in place previously and well done to the Nelson committee for having the foresight to do it now before it is mandatory.

Yes they are still using railway irons, they still seem to be as effective as anything else but no matter what you do, a situation will always arise that will still get past the best defences, but at least the chances of that happening are being minimised.

[busterbell]

another note to add too are that the irons are actually new as well ( obviously 2nd hand new) and apparently are starting to get hard to find. perhaps some thought needs to be put into other options as well.
but like god says they work well and do their job.
curiously does any track use anything else??

[petero]

Posted by tank68p on Dec 26, 2008, 7:53pm
just my 2cents worth the catch fence in palmy did do its job by stopping the cars going into the spectator area (as they were both stopped at the wall) also the catch fence is higher by 2 and a half meters than the regulations.

Sorry tank68p, I would have to disagree that the catch fence did its job.
as earlier post we did not make the rerun, however the video clip from TV1 clearly shows the catch fence is basically destroyed at point of impact - 21V hit the catch fence above the wire ropes/ railway iron part of the fence - and the catch fence and sprintcar was well into the walkway area in front of the stands.

refer to the photo from the link below ( and a series of them) from the Sports Images web site and you will see the sprintcar push crews running for dear life - speedway.sportsimages.co.nz/main.php?g2_itemId=138306

The fence may be above legal hight, and I would have thought it would have taken more of an impact as well before it collapsed, however my point of the post is that attitudes need to chance and little things can be done now to save lives.

Crowds/ walkways/ stands are too close to fences that can not stop cars going through them.

At least some tracks have already made changes, but people still stand in front of fences during races - pit crew especially - and this is in effect allowed by SCB and track officials.

will it take another death or injury to change and risk the sport/ speedways being closed down ?

[petero]

see attached video, one of many examples of a vehicle going over a fence into the crowd that can be found.


au.youtube.com/watch?v=OcV9u-qPVhs&feature=PlayList&p=75FAD7F8005F2BE3&index=48

Okay, we can never stop everything going over the fence, however we still let people stand or sit close to the fence

Yes motor racing is dangerous
yes we enter at own own risk.
Yes the signs and small print say the promoter etc etc can not be held liable.

However even the likes of OSH recognise this in a workplace, and you have to show that you have taken all reasonable steps to identify and minimise risks.
Part of that is also ongoing enforcement of those policies.

hopefully lady luck will hold out a little longer while attitudes slowly change.