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Post by Admin on Feb 11, 2012 14:19:18 GMT 12
A thread dedicated to the Superstock Chev 350 engine trial that has been underway in Superstock 511p.
Please note this thread will be tightly moderated to keep it on topic so please be reasonable with your comments and questions
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 11, 2012 17:05:25 GMT 12
I want to thank Gordon for providing this forum allowing this sort of information to be freely & easily shared.  This thread I would like to keep as close to the facts regarding the reason for the trial, the engine, performance to date, future plans/intentions, etc. withuot getting sidetracked. Hopefully I can provide enough info to answer all questions. Thankyou, BL  |
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 11, 2012 17:21:23 GMT 12
THE REASON FOR THE TRIAL The current cost and accesability for upcoming competitors is primarily the reason for the trial. Whilst some tracks do seem to be inceasing in numers, they are likely benefiting from local economies that are doing well, ie., dairying. There is quite a broad range of cost for engines in this class, & they can depend on how much the team is able to do themselves multiplied by how fast do you want to go. The result of these costs can be seen in the bottle necks at the top of the stockcar class where competitors are reluctant/unable to go any further, and with tracks numbers in some cases drying up making it ever more difficult to promote premier classes that get the punters through the gates, that in turn make the world go around. With the current egine limit that is very close to what originally was set in Palmerston north based on what a local civil engineer had estimated the fences at the time could cope with, & they decided a 238 ci flat head Ford v8 was about right, & with an allowance of 60 thou over, the engine size was set at 240.6 ci.  It was later increased to 248 where it is now, so that the cost of downsizing most of the engines being used at the time was removed. We now have a rule that basically says provided you have the resources to do so, you can within the rules go and get whatever hp/torque you can find. There is a huge difference between the highest & lowest spec engines, & it should be noted the the highest spec engines aren't necesarily going to win races as some of the other limiting factors seem to be working such as rear tyre hardness. In this global market place we now live in, which is a relatively new phenomina, we have mass produced racing engines produced at very low costs, with very good availability, & what we are finding very reliable also. Ford, GM, & Chrysler all produce very similar products disigned & developed especially for oval track racing. Ironically, spec wise they looked to be quite a good fit with being a mid to upper pack engine that would sway some that would have have concidered the high outlay for an engine as being the reason for not doing it. I want to play my part in growing what I conciderer to be the sport I most want to be part of. |
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 11, 2012 18:07:53 GMT 12
THE ENGINE Great racing power at a reasonable cost (350 HP @ 5000 RPM - Torque 390 @ 4000 RPM) This is a factory sealed crate engine package, complete from high rise dual plane intake manifold, stamped steel valve covers with racing style breathers, and 8 quart single kick-out circle track racing oil pan. The 350 engine is a great value with the nodular cast iron crankshaft, iron vortec heads with 1.94”/1.50” valves, flat tappet hydraulic lifters, and HEI distributor. GM uses the 330 horsepower 350 HO as the base for this engine.  Technical Notes: These engines are sealed at the intake manifold, cylinder head, front cover, and oil pan with special twist off bolt heads. The 350 HP @ 5000 RPM was derived from a Superflow dyno using a 4 barrel 650 cfm Holley carburetor 80541-1, 32” long by 1 5/8” to a 1 3/4” stepped header with a 3” collector, and 92 octane unleaded gasoline. This engine package DOES NOT include a water pump. Oil pan clears most GM rear steer chassis with stock engine location. Oil pan is 8” deep at sump.  GMR 350/350 CIRCLE TRACK ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS Horsepower: 350 @ 5,000 RPM Torque: 390 ft./lbs. @ 3,800 RPM Max. Rec. RPM: 5,500 Compression Ratio: 9.1:1 Block: 10105123 Cast iron four bolt with 1-piece rear main seal. Crankshaft: 14088527 Nodular cast iron. Connecting Rods: 10108688 PM Steel Pistons: 12361371 Cast Aluminum Piston Rings: 14089025 Camshaft: 20502476; Lift: .435” I, .460” E; Duration @ .050: 212° I, 222° E Lifters: Hydraulic Flat Tappet Timing Chain: 14087014 Valve Cover:: 25534359 Kit With Breather Tubes Oil Breather:: 25534355 Breather Kit Cylinder Heads: 12558060 Cast Iron Vortec, 64cc combustion chambers. Intake Valves: 10241743 1.94” Exhaust Valves 12550901 1.50” Valve Springs: 10212811 Rocker Arms: 10089648 1.5 Ratio Rocker Arm Nut: 25534352 Special, ”Kool Nut Design” Intake Manifold: 12366573 Aluminum High Rise Dual Plane Distributor: 01104067 GM HEI Valve Lash: Zero Spark Plugs: R44LTS Gap @ .045, Rapid Fire #8 Gap @ .035 Ignition Timing: Max. 32° Total @ 4,000 RPM Fuel: 92 Octane Unleaded Gasoline (96 octane NZ equivalent) Oil Pan: 25534353 8 Quart Black Powder Coated Circle Track With Oil Filter. It includes a full louvered windage tray, oil scraper, three trap doors, oil level plug, 8” deep sump, a 3-1/2” kickout on the right side, and a 3/4” oil pick up tube. Based on advertised specs, & accounts from suppliers & users as well as comparing with what little factual engine specs I could get my hands on from our local cars, we opted for the GM602 (down from the GM604 I had originally wanted). I had approached Mike Delahunty at Ford motorsport on using there equivallent which he was keen to do, until I sent him a video of our racing & what we get up to - I never heard back after that. With a slightly different carburetor the GM use to determine there specs, we had very similar results on the rolling dyno as what GM had advertised. The specs are advertised at 350 hp & 390ft/lb torque. I'm told there may be up to 2% variation from engine to engine & going by the acuracy of information recieved thus far, I have no reason to doubt them.     basically, the engine fitted into the same hole the was left in the ex. 77p superstock, now the 511p car, with relative ease. There was a need to change the flywheel, & play with the pulleys, but pretty much it went in with ease (this I'm told by Elmo as I was not able to be around at the time). The engine cost ~ $5500 NZD landed in Palmy, with the need to inject ~ $2500 NZD extra to buy the carburetor & various other bits not supplied. I would expect given fluctuations in the dollar, to be an engine installed for under $10k NZD. Both the supplier & users have told me they get 3 years of race useage in a car that might do ~ 40 - 60 meetings per year, & with feature races often exceeding 50 lapers. They do rolling starts & don't have the same contact we have. The maintenance includes regular oil changes, valve spring replacement annually, the usual filter & plug checks, & replace rings after 3 years. This engine is a spec built engine, 350 ci, that will have a spec carburettor, where minimal adjustments will be allowed such as jet size, plug gap, exhausts will be open although I will want no balance bars. It will be reletively easy to check if someone has been cheating as the engines will be virtually the same, & punishments for cheats I will want to be as hard as possible. Lifetime ban comes to mind, along with humiliation that goes with it. |
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 11, 2012 18:34:26 GMT 12
PERFORMANCE TO DATE  The ex 77p superstock, now the 511 p car driven by Mike Gaskin who up until this year had never driven a superstock. My own expectation was similar to comparing an XR600 dirt bike with its higher torque to a RM400 moto X with high peak hp, but relatively low torque. As it happened, this has pretty much been the case where we have seen a relatively new driver comfortably cope with with the racecar with relative ease, thanks partly to the driver being capable, but also to the engine for having a very long smooth spread of torque not giving the driver any suprises along the way. Thanks to Elmo & Paula & there keenness to see this progress, we have seen other drivers in the seat that would be concidered experienced in anyones books. Paul Demanser, & Dion Mooney, both have had a peddle, both were sceptics prior to there drive, & both are now convinced this engine to be good for the class & a good way forward to putting drivers in good mid range cars before/if they decide to progress to the more powerful engines such as the Morrisson's, Hartley's, Marsh, etc, etc, etc, that most of the podium cars currently use (hope I havn't offended anyone by using these names, please let me know if they need to be omitted, or others added I haven't thought about off the cuff). What we have seen, is an engine package capable of putting another person into this class with relative ease, allowing them to safely get into the class without blowing the top cars away, but allowing them to compete & enjoy the sport. there will be some tracks, & some track conditions better or worse suited to this engine. A tight track where you have to shed a lot of speed then pull out of will suit this engine better then a slick Palmy surface for example. |
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 11, 2012 19:42:35 GMT 12
FUTURE PLANS/INTENTIONS
We now have a written approval for the trial to be extended through next season, which includes participation of other trial cars using the GM602.
I personally have acquired a good superstock currently fitted with toyota, that I intend getting lap time information comparing the Toyota with the Chev using the same driver/car/track combination. There are others already making commitments to do the same for next year.
Tim at SNZ is calling for interested parties to join this trial for next season. The more info we have on compatability, the better. It might be that we need to fit a restrictor plate if it is found they are too fast. The intention after all, is to provide a low cost reliable upper/mid pack superstock engine bringing back a little more fun to the deal.
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Post by sandy898 on Feb 11, 2012 21:12:38 GMT 12
i have been watching this car with interest and think it is a great idea, although i'm not a GM person i would love to see a Ford engine trialled also.
Heard from Elmo and Paula and unfortuanately the car wont be at Wanganui tommorrow due to clutch issues.
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Feb 11, 2012 23:07:58 GMT 12
this is good to see as i am following it as it can be a way for me to get into superstocks. The motor in my stockcar is worth more than this chev but it is a ford tho lol.
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RC
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by RC on Feb 12, 2012 0:24:56 GMT 12
hi with the moter sealed if some thing goes wrong or its just time for a rebiuld will there be an nz recon place that has snz aproval to reseal or will the moter have to go back to the states to get work done.
good luck i hope it gets aprovel.
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 12, 2012 5:22:20 GMT 12
Hi mate, at the beginning of this trial I was quite paranoid about someone cheating & getting untold extra hp, therefore was quite draconian in my attitude to what we ought to do regarding sealing these engines & keeping them from being tampered with. As things have progressed I've come to realise that with some simple detection gear, & seals similar to what are used on current engines, we won't need much more then that. these engines will be easier to detect cheaters simply for the fact that they will be virtually identical (other then exhaust) from one to the other.
In answer to you're question, we are a little early into the trial to say exactly what the best approach will be (we don't actually know yet), but there will need to be contingencies for those that have issues where the engine needs to be opened up. There are some simple solutions being talked about, but need to be fully worked through.
Hope that helps, BL
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Post by craige on Feb 12, 2012 6:51:09 GMT 12
as brendon has stated we got on board with the trial engine as was a cheap way of entering superstocks and to date have been having ball on a small budget,have had a few issues with gearoxes blowing and clutches ,the latest being another clutch and gearbox at teams ,dion changed the gearbox this week but the new clutch let go when about to load car onto the trailer yesterday so at this stage until we can sort out these issues ,the car will be parked for a few weeks until can diagnose whats making the clutches blow,car wont be racing at wanganui today which we are gutted with because we were going to get the one and only bob smith to have a drive,we are hoping to be back racing in the next few weeks,if we can raise enough cash to get a new bell housing made and change to landcruiser gear box,but as being just on a single wage things are a bit tight .................. on a high note has been awesome with mikes ,pauls and dions feedback all saying that the engine has plenty of boogie and the potentional to do well once all the little niggly things have been ironed out ps a good sponsor be apreciated to help with purchasing new bell housing etc lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ( hope the plug for sponsor ok gordon  |
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Post by mikey69 on Feb 12, 2012 7:34:02 GMT 12
this is good to see as i am following it as it can be a way for me to get into superstocks. The motor in my stockcar is worth more than this chev but it is a ford tho lol. This is a great idea and maybe something similar could be done in stockcars, as from what regan has said stockcars are pricing them selfs out of the market very quickly too |
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Post by porry41 on Feb 12, 2012 21:46:51 GMT 12
ok im back let me refrase the question .these motors staying at 350 ci.not being destroked back to 248 ci .i have a destoked 350 in my olde ...
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Post by craige on Feb 13, 2012 9:27:31 GMT 12
ok im back let me refrase the question .these motors staying at 350 ci.not being destroked back to 248 ci .i have a destoked 350 in my olde ... yes porry the motors are staying as 350 cin not destroked |
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Post by craige on Feb 28, 2012 5:50:57 GMT 12
not alot has been happening in the 511p camp lately as have had a few gearbox c/clutch issues,hopefully have all that sorted now thanks to mark walford,all goign well car will be back together either this week or next week.interesting read on snz website to in febuary news letter,and i know of 2 competiors who are looing at trialing a crate engine next season to,thought id copy and paste the news i saw on snz update for febuary
In January 2011 we bought you news of an approved trial for a 350ci factory sealed Chevrolet crate motor in the Superstock class.
The engine hit the track this season in the 511p car, which has been primarily driven by Mike Gaskin, although luminaries such as Paul Demanser and Dion Mooney have also had some seat time.
Trial co-ordinator Brendan Lucas opted to run with the GM602 spec engine, which generates 350hp and 390ft/lb of torque.
The trial has proven to be a useful exercise to date, and Speedway NZ has agreed to extend the trial to the end of the 2012/13 season, which coincides with the next rulemaking period.
In addition, if there are any others interested in trialling the GM602 engine in the class, Speedway NZ is now accepting applications for more cars to run in this specification. Please contact the SNZ Office if you are interested.
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Post by brendanlucas on Feb 29, 2012 19:22:35 GMT 12
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Post by Go Slideways on Mar 10, 2012 21:44:35 GMT 12
I think it's fantastic what you're doing Brendan - good luck to you.
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Post by brendanlucas on Mar 23, 2012 17:10:53 GMT 12
Just to clarify one thing, if you are interested in trialling this engine in you're Superstock next season, you need to speak with SNZ, apply to become a trialist, & have the signed letter of approval. If you don't have the signed letter, you won't get past scrutineering.
Thankyou, Brendan Lucas
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Post by craige on Mar 23, 2012 17:40:36 GMT 12
not alot to reprt on our side of things atm .i took car for a run last weekend in wanganui to see if clutch and gearbox issues have been resolved ,which am plaesed to say the finaly are ...( mark walford you are the man ).was no supers there apart from me so had 3 runs with the golden oldie guys(other half says thats where i should be racing lol ) then went out in the all in with the stockcars and car had very good pace even with a rusty old fella like me behind the wheel.
this weekend car will be running in west coast superstock champs in wanganui with dion mooney behind the wheel
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 9:28:16 GMT 12
Geez Elmo , you,re showing your age when you start peddalling it with the Golden Oldies . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mark did say he was working on a few things to eliminate your gearbox / clutch issues .
Did you end up switching to the land cruiser box .
Cheers
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